Prospect Info: 2014/15 Marlies/Prospects Thread v.4

[Bullseye]

This argument is tiring. You are both obviously right but think that can only be one right answer. Good players are good regardless of their size.

Chara is good and Tyler Johnson is good. Gallagher is physical Johnny Gaudreau is not.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Even while not putting up a lot of points you can play a very effective game as a big player without being overly physical. It's just a useless expectation IMO. Why does it matter how a player plays, as long as its getting the job done? If he's doing the job effectively, who cares how he does it.

Give me an example of player then who is effective that is large without using their size to play physical and does not put up a lot of points.

 

[ULF_55]

Even while not putting up a lot of points you can play a very effective game as a big player without being overly physical. It's just a useless expectation IMO. Why does it matter how a player plays, as long as its getting the job done? If he's doing the job effectively, who cares how he does it.

Completely agree with this.

If you're as good as a smaller player, you'll likely get the job just due to having that size.

If you aren't as good and you don't take advantage of your superior size, you likely won't.

 

[theIceWookie]

This argument is tiring. You are both obviously right but think that can only be one right answer. Good players are good regardless of their size.

Chara is good and Tyler Johnson is good. Gallagher is physical Johnny Gaudreau is not.

That's all I was trying to point out. Size shouldn't be directly used as an argument for or against someone, nor should "he's big but not rough" be a negative.

 

[theIceWookie]

Have no idea what you mean here, and instead of guessing or assuming your usual 'Leafs fans are not allowed to comment on their own prospects' unless it is all sunshine and rainbows. Can you elaborate?

Well I've never posted anything along the lines of "only sunshine and rainbows" lol. But I know how much you hate when I point out flaws in your arguments or the uselessness of pointing out the same things over and over again, so I'll drop it.

It's a little essay joke of mine. When referencing from the same post you use ibid instead of having to rewrite all the info over again from the source you're referencing in endnotes or footnotes. If you are unsure of what I'm getting at, just don't worry about it.

 

[New Liskeard]

That's all I was trying to point out. Size shouldn't be directly used as an argument for or against someone, nor should "he's big but not rough" be a negative.

That's why nearly every year, prospects will rise and fall in the rankings due to their size and size alone. Guess we have never seen a small skilled forward drop in the draft due to his size or lackthereof.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Well I've never posted anything along the lines of "only sunshine and rainbows" lol. But I know how much you hate when I point out flaws in your arguments or the uselessness of pointing out the same things over and over again, so I'll drop it.

It's a little essay joke of mine. When referencing from the same post you use ibid instead of having to rewrite all the info over again from the source you're referencing in endnotes or footnotes. If you are unsure of what I'm getting at, just don't worry about it.

You still have me at a lost.

All I posted was it was promising Gauthier got 3 points this weekend as BertCorbeau posted. For him to be a #3C for us, a player still needs to contribute offensively.

This is the hope. I don't think anyone would disagree with this so I am at a lost with your cryptic reply to me.

 

[theIceWookie]

That's why nearly every year, prospects will rise and fall in the rankings due to their size and size alone. Guess we have never seen a small skilled forward drop in the draft due to his size or lackthereof.

I wasn't debating that size bias is real, I was arguing it's stupid. Which it is.

 

[theIceWookie]

You still have me at a lost.

All I posted was it was promising Gauthier got 3 points this weekend as BertCorbeau posted. For him to be a #3C for us, a player still needs to contribute offensively.

This is the hope. I don't think anyone would disagree with this so I am at a lost with your cryptic reply to me.

Don't worry about it, you wouldn't appreciate it I'm sure

 

[New Liskeard]

I wasn't debating that size bias is real, I was arguing it's stupid. Which it is.

Odd how something so stupid is acknowledged by professional scouts and NHL executive. Hard to imagine so many experienced business professionals and scouts around the world would acknowledge something you call "stupid". Are they all stupid or is there something to it?

 

[ULF_55]

Don't worry about it, you wouldn't appreciate it I'm sure

Not everyone uses Ibid.

 

[theIceWookie]

Odd how something so stupid is acknowledged by professional scouts and NHL executive. Hard to imagine so many experienced business professionals and scouts around the world would acknowledge something you call "stupid". Are they all stupid or is there something to it?

Just because an idea is accepted doesn't make it right. Otherwise we'd still have segregation...

Size as an argument so flawed it's not even funny. It's this inane idea that just because a player is big, means he can succeed in the NHL and just because a player is small means he can't. It' beyond dumb. Players like Gaudreau, Johnson, Kucherov, etc are nicely proving my point for me on the small side of things, while players like Biggs, John Scott are doing the same thing for the big side of things.

Can size be a factor in whether or not a player is succesful? Yes, but it shouldn't be a be all end all factor like it wayyyyy too often is.

 

[theIceWookie]

Not everyone uses Ibid.

True. It's just what I used through university.

 

[carko32]

Just because an idea is accepted doesn't make it right. Otherwise we'd still have segregation...

Size as an argument so flawed it's not even funny. It's this inane idea that just because a player is big, means he can succeed in the NHL and just because a player is small means he can't. It' beyond dumb. Players like Gaudreau, Johnson, Kucherov, etc are nicely proving my point for me on the small side of things, while players like Biggs, John Scott are doing the same thing for the big side of things.

Can size be a factor in whether or not a player is succesful? Yes, but it shouldn't be a be all end all factor like it wayyyyy too often is.

I totally agree with you. And Detroit won their cup with Datsyuk and Zetterberg as their C and they are both 5'11'', so I don't think that you need only giants. As you said, if a player has skills, it doesn't matter how big he is.

 

[SprDaVE]

Nylander is practicing right now with the Marlies. Dineen said he's on track to make his debut on Friday.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Don't worry about it, you wouldn't appreciate it I'm sure

Ibid back at you then. So any time Gauthier puts up some points that may lead some of us to be happy, he may be our #3C one day. You won't have to comment.

And I don't say this flippantly, since in today's hockey a top 9 bottom 3 alignment is more prevalent. We should all be happy Gauthier starts showing some more offence.

 

[SprDaVE]

 

[TOG26]

Pulling no punches when it comes to Ross. I can only assume his contract will be terminated once his suspension is up or will just wade out his contract in the ECHL. Another wasted pick / asset (Jimmy Hayes).

 

[Bullseye]

Pulling no punches when it comes to Ross. I can only assume his contract will be terminated once his suspension is up or will just wade out his contract in the ECHL. Another wasted pick / asset (Jimmy Hayes).

Yup an asset and a 2nd round pick - story of Leafs drafting history unfortunately. Trading picks should be illegal now in this organization. I'll make an exception for McDavid.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Pulling no punches when it comes to Ross. I can only assume his contract will be terminated once his suspension is up or will just wade out his contract in the ECHL. Another wasted pick / asset (Jimmy Hayes).

Ross played with 2 pretty good linemates. Perhaps propped up by them. Bad call on him as a pick. He's turning into another Blacker, Ryan type of miss.

 

[Goldie]

# 45 has 9 games with the Marlies this year. He has performed in those 9 as well as any other D. Nearly 1/2 point per game and plus 2. records is 6-1-2 when he played. Has only been on the ice for 1 GA in those games- shorty against in first game. Has a steak of 8 games where he has not been on the ice for a GA. Was getting skated in all situations when he played. Don't know why they aren't giving him more ice. In any of those sentences did it matter how tall he was?

 

[Bullseye]

Nylander is practicing right now with the Marlies. Dineen said he's on track to make his debut on Friday.

Any video of this out yet?

 

[Bullseye]

Knodel has 9 games with the Marlies this year. He has performed in those 9 better as well as any other D. Nearly 1/2 point per game and plus 2. records is 6-1-2 when he played. Has only been on the ice for 1 GA in those games- shorty against in first game. Has a steak of 8 games where he has not been on the ice for a GA. Was getting skated in all situations when he plays. Don't know why they aren't giving him more ice.

Nice to hear. Cautious approach with slightly more icetime coming down the road?

 

[Goldie]

Cautious? I doubt that. Is on last year of his deal. You would think that you would want to see what he's got before he goes somewhere else and plays well.

 

[Drew311]

Odd how something so stupid is acknowledged by professional scouts and NHL executive. Hard to imagine so many experienced business professionals and scouts around the world would acknowledge something you call "stupid". Are they all stupid or is there something to it?

I think a big part of size being so attractive to scouts/teams is that larger players are generally more NHL ready. They seems to pass over smaller skilled players because they will take 4 - 5 years to fill out, which doesn't help their team in the short term. Drafting a big prospect increases the chances of plugging a cheap, controlled player into your line up sooner rather than later, which has become increasingly more important in today's cap world.