2014-15 Goalie Madness: Someone HELP US

[beepeearr]

No. His GAA for this game is under 2 due to OT and the shootout loss not counting against goalie stats.

Always found it weird how shootout goals dont count, the loss still counts, well halfway anyway

 

[dechire]

Why are we not counting the shoot out goals, Kari didn't give up just two goals, heck if Kari had only given up two goals in the shoot out alone we would have won, but he didn't, and so we lost 3-2, so even if you dismiss all the other shootout goals he gave up this still counts as another 3 goal game for him doesn't it?

Shootout goals don't count because the average save percentage in the shootout is ~65-70% or 1 goal on every 3 attempts. In this game Kari's shootout save percentage was 64% which is basically average. With that one extra save Varlamov was 74% which is still basically average. On the other side of it shooters should expect to score around once every 3 attempts. If your shooters are much lower than that then your team has a problem (for example the LA Kings and their 7% scoring record this season which equals 7 losses). Dallas is average in both categories with 33.3% scoring percentage and .696 save percentage.

So basically a 20 round shootout would mean 6 or 7 goals scored against both the winner and loser and counting those goals would **** up goalie stats for no reason since goalies aren't expected to put up good numbers in the shootout anyway. Whether you still count them as goals against is your personal preference but in terms of NHL stat keeping it's not something they would ever count against season totals.

 

[Mr Misty]

So Kari was not largely to blame for the loss? I'm still trying to figure out why are taking the stance you are.

It seems pretty weird to say that people can only blame Kari for raw numbers but not something else.

He doesn't deserve any blame for that loss. Neither of the goals were soft and even if they had both been from center ice, this team needs to score 3 if it wants to get a point out of games, and 4 if it wants to win.

I don't have a problem with reasoned criticism of Kari's play this year, I'm tired of people blaming Kari for whatever bad thing happens because it's easier than thinking about why things don't go our way sometimes. I'm mad as hell about that loss, it's the second in a row where we had a 2 goal lead against the Avs, but this one isn't on Kari. He did everything people were asking for last week when he had all those 3+ goals against games in a row, but the drumbeat of lazy criticism goes on.

Can you provide a flow chart to let me know when it is okay to criticize Kari?

Is it OK to criticize Kari?

Are you posting on HF:

YES--Totally OK, don't ever stop for any reason.
NO--He's still the cause of all our woes, why don't you log on and complain some more?

 

[Hull Fan]

kari had multiple opportunities to win the game but didn't make that save when it mattered. dallas shouldn't have to score 3+ goals per game in order to win.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

No. His GAA for this game is under 2 due to OT and the shootout loss not counting against goalie stats.

First game he's had it under 2 since January 3rd.

 

[Mr Misty]

kari had multiple opportunities to win the game but didn't make that save when it mattered. dallas shouldn't have to score 3+ goals per game in order to win.

Colorado needs to score 3 to win. San Jose and LA as well. Montreal has the fewest goal allowed at 114 in 50 games for a 2.28 GAA per game so on average they won't win a game they only score 2 goals. The NHL is a 3-2 league, and the Stars are a 4-3 team.

 

[Satan]

If you guys didn't realize that we were going to have to score 3+ night in night out back in August then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[beepeearr]

No. His GAA for this game is under 2 due to OT and the shootout loss not counting against goalie stats.

Ah, I thought the game winning goal still got counted both for the shooter and the goalie for some reason

 

[beepeearr]

If you guys didn't realize that we were going to have to score 3+ night in night out back in August then I don't know what to tell you.

Sure they didn't count stat wise but we did score three in the shoot out plus the 2 in regulation, 5 goals should win most nights

 

[Troy McClure]

If you guys didn't realize that we were going to have to score 3+ night in night out back in August then I don't know what to tell you.

More often than not, sure. For every single win, I wouldn't have believed it.

This again comes down to Kari not playing well enough to steal a game. It would be nice for him to do what the elite goalies do, but that's not the goalie the Stars have this season.

 

[Satan]

Sure they didn't count stat wise but we did score three in the shoot out plus the 2 in regulation, 5 goals should win most nights

The three in the shootout don't count. The shootout itself is a farce.

More often than not, sure. For every single win, I wouldn't have believed it.

This again comes down to Kari not playing well enough to steal a game. It would be nice for him to do what the elite goalies do, but that's not the goalie the Stars have this season.

Meh. I jokingly discussed matters with my friends over the summer through September. It was obvious to me and to other outsiders familiar with hockey that our defense isn't strong.

The lack of Kari's traditional game-stealing ability is truly worrisome though. What was once our X-factor is now our non-factor.

 

[SonicSpeedDash]

Soooo yeah. Now what?

 

[Alistar]

oh hey I just noticed that with Dubnyk in the fold, Minnesota actually passed us for overall team save percentage in the last week. Now it's just Edmonton below us.

I just want him gone. And you know what, even the worst backup goaltenders in the league come in at around a .905 career save percentage (like Anders Lindback) so odds are that no matter who we get to replace Lehtonen, they're likely to be considerably better than the .894 our team has put up this year.

 

[MetalGodAOD*]

This season's a wash. You roll the dice and hope it's just one of those things that happens to goalies and he bounces back next year.

Only real other option is to see if SJ wants to swap goalies since they seem reluctant to re-sign Niemi. But I doubt anyone takes his contract.

 

[glovesave_35]

If you guys didn't realize that we were going to have to score 3+ night in night out back in August then I don't know what to tell you.

How many games have the Stars scored 3 goals or more and lost? It cuts both ways.

 

[Alistar]

This season's a wash. You roll the dice and hope it's just one of those things that happens to goalies and he bounces back next year.

It's too risky giving him another chance. Next year has to be a massive step forward for this team or we might as well look at re-structuring the club. The days of Jamie Benn and our other young players being paid less than their worth won't last long enough to afford to throw away 2 seasons to a league worst goaltender.

Just imagine if it's next year and in October he blows a half dozen more games. What the **** do you do then?

 

[dechire]

Soooo yeah. Now what?

Well these are the UFA goalies

Niemi
Fasth
Ramo
Neuvirth
Dubnyk
Enroth
Greiss

We can sign one of them but it's questionable whether or not they'd be much better than Kari. Or we could make a trade but true starters are not available for trade.

 

[Elysian]

At this point I'm convinced Kari would clear waivers. No one wants his contract, he's not an NHL starter this season. He's awful. We need a change, or we need to sell some assets at the deadline.

 

[Troy McClure]

Whatever they do long term, they should bench Kari for the whole road trip. He's been awful. Send a message.

 

[Alistar]

If we can sign Thomas Greiss that's who we go for.

 

[SonicSpeedDash]

Well these are the UFA goalies

Niemi
Fasth
Ramo
Neuvirth
Dubnyk
Enroth
Greiss

We can sign one of them but it's questionable whether or not they'd be much better than Kari. Or we could make a trade but true starters are not available for trade.

Neuvirth please. I watched him quite a bit when he was with the Caps since got a Caps fan living in my house.

 

[Stars99Lobo37]

How many games have the Stars scored 3 goals or more and lost? It cuts both ways.

10.

19-6-4 when scoring 3 or more.

But only 4-4-1 when scoring 3 goals. Other 15 wins have come scoring 4 or more.

 

[dechire]

Neuvirth please. I watched him quite a bit when he was with the Caps since got a Caps fan living in my house.

I'm a fan of Neuvirth and he's the UFA I've been talking about wanting to get but my main concern is that he's never played close to the number of games that Kari plays. Ideally it would be a 1a/1b situation and eventually he could take over as the starter if he earned it. If he was the sole starter there could be a big problem if he can't keep up with 60+ games per season. Also there's the potential that having competition would boost Kari's play. He's not exactly being challenged by Lindback right now. We also don't want to end up like Edmonton who have two backup goalies and no real starter.

 

[SonicSpeedDash]

I'm a fan of Neuvirth and he's the UFA I've been talking about wanting to get but my main concern is that he's never played close to the number of games that Kari plays. Ideally it would be a 1a/1b situation and eventually he could take over as the starter if he earned it. If he was the sole starter there could be a big problem if he can't keep up with 60+ games per season. Also there's the potential that having competition would boost Kari's play. He's not exactly being challenged by Lindback right now. We also don't want to end up like Edmonton who have two backup goalies and no real starter.

Yeah don't wanna end up like Edmonton at all. But Neuvirth is also proven in the playoffs as well. So yeah, I'd take him overall.

 

[LowSodium]

10.

19-6-4 when scoring 3 or more.

But only 4-4-1 when scoring 3 goals. Other 15 wins have come scoring 4 or more.

Only 4 games won without scoring 3 goals. Ridiculous.

Another stat to watch is that the Stars are now 29th in win% when outshooting the opponent.