Olympics: 2014 — Canada Roster Discussion (Part XI - Announcement Jan 7th, 12PM EST, TSN)

[BruinsBtn]

I can't believe people don't have Seabrook as a consensus lock. He was an absolute beast in the Stanley Cup finals and plays with Keith.

He's a slam dunk for me.

 

[nowhereman]

I can see goaltending killing them.

Luongo and Price have both been good this year. Goaltending likely won't be an issue.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

why don't you go through the rosters and take a tally of what the count is for each goalie. price leads luongo 5-1 at least, so most posters don't think its up for grabs.

Why would it be up for grabs when you have price who is in the running for the vezina trophy vs the guy that's in the conversation just because he won 4 years ago.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10193118/nhl-sochi-hockey-power-rankings

here is a ranking by two individuals who have had inside knowledge during the whole process. is it babcock no. But it doesn't also take a rocket scientist to figure out, that price is the only goalie that's been a lock from the start, and still is. luongo isn't even on the lock list. I can bring up many such lists, articles from experts who have price has number 1. I can't find one that say luongo is or should be.

Now can you provide me evidence anywhere that luongo is being considered for starting job???

LOL! So at least you admit you have no evidence for your 'fact'. That's progress.
There have been lots of articles written and projections saying it is up for grabs.
But at the end of the day none of the prognostications mean squat.
Both will be on the team and the guy making the decision will be Mike Babcock. It's his call. Last time around Luongo won the gold for him but I think both guys get a good look and they go with the hot hand.
You disagree. That's fine. We have different opinions.

 

[Mr. Canucklehead]

why don't you go through the rosters and take a tally of what the count is for each goalie. price leads luongo 5-1 at least, so most posters don't think its up for grabs.

Why would it be up for grabs when you have price who is in the running for the vezina trophy vs the guy that's in the conversation just because he won 4 years ago.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/10193118/nhl-sochi-hockey-power-rankings

here is a ranking by two individuals who have had inside knowledge during the whole process. is it babcock no. But it doesn't also take a rocket scientist to figure out, that price is the only goalie that's been a lock from the start, and still is. luongo isn't even on the lock list. I can bring up many such lists, articles from experts who have price has number 1. I can't find one that say luongo is or should be.

Now can you provide me evidence anywhere that luongo is being considered for starting job???

Can you provide evidence where he is not being considered?

You are arguing opinion. The other party here has acknowledged he is stating his opinion, just as clearly as you are stating yours.

Personally, I think he has the right of it. I think Luongo will come out of the gate for Canada. Much like 2010 when Brodeur did. If Luongo falters (as Brodeur did), Price will be ready for his shot.

No one's denying Price is having an excellent year. What I - and a few other Canuck fans, yes - are assuming is going to happen is based primarily on what has occurred in the past since most of the players and personnel involved are the same as they were in 2010. We're drawing assumptions from that; not facts.

 

[hitmen19]

considering they haven't won the olympics on big ice in over 70 years, its a pretty damming misconception.

and its been 6 years since they have won a gold on big ice in the world championships. 4 years since they have even won a medal.

considering Canada was sending amateurs up until 1998, I think you can throw all the years before that out the window. Canada lost in a shootout in 1998, won in 2002, and lost 2-0 to the Russian in the qf in 2006 albeit had a horrible tourney.

Canada has lost once in an elimination game during regular play on big ice best on best, ill take that record against any of the other big nations, any day. That is without even considering 2010, when Canada would have won with that team anywhere, any ice

Russia hasn't won gold since they moved best on best, and there one silver they lost to the team that we lost to in a shootout, so I guess Russia can't win on the big ice either during best on best

Sweden didn't medal in 98 or 02, they won in torino, but they also lost 3-0 and 5-0 during that tourney.

So I guess these two teams should have no chance either.

 

[417]

This is what I disagree wholeheartedly with. Doughty and Weber suffer from the Eastern bias, but are both at least as good as Subban is. Subban is solid, but he benefits heavily by playing in Montreal as opposed to LA and Nashville, and perhaps even more by his flashy style. Doughty and Weber play a much more toned down style, but are every bit as good at it as Subban is at playing flash-and-dash.

In the end, Subban suffers from being a right-hander more than anything, IMO. If he was a lefty, he probably is on a second pairing with Weber, or he plays with Pietrangelo ahead of Bouwmeester. Weber, Keith and Doughty are all still ahead of him on the chart, and I think most people expect the Bouwmeester-Pietrangelo pairing to be there.

I don't buy this...Subban doesn't benefit from playing in Montreal. Again, this is a guy who apparently isn't a lock yet has some of the best numbers of all Canadian defencemen who went to the camp AND...he's the defending Norris Trophy winner and a likely finalist this year.

If anything, Shea Weber benefits from playing in Nashville, because if he were more in the national spotlight, I'm not sure he'd still have the reputation of infallibility that he seems to benefit from.

On merit alone, again, not on perceived reputations...Shea Weber is a guy who should be a 'bubble guy'. He hasn't exactly had a great year, despite good offensive numbers and frankly, hasn't looked like the same player since Ryan Suter left (not a coincidence IMO).

I don't see why Subban is the one who should 'suffer' from being right handed, to me, the 3 best and most complete Canadian right handed defencemen are Doughty, Subban, Pietrangelo and I'd probably even have Seabrook before I would Weber...

Don't get me wrong, Shea Weber is a very good dman, but probably not nearly as good as he's perceived to be.

 

[nowhereman]

considering they haven't won the olympics on big ice in over 70 years, its a pretty damming misconception.

The NHL have only sent their players to the Olympics four times and only twice have those tournaments been played outside North America. That's not exactly a big sample size.

Not to mention, the 2006 team was nowhere near as good as the 2010 team.

 

[417]

Absolutely. That's not what most people are thinking about when they're making their rosters, though. Think of it as more "opening game line ups" rather than "full tournament depth chart".

If anyone struggles, I'm sure Babcock won't hesitate to play Subban regular minutes, but based on NHL performance, handedness and history/chemistry, I think Subban sits 7th on the depth chart right now.

Based on NHL performance...i'm not sure how you can plausibly argue that he should be 7th on the depth chart

Nothing supports this theory...

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

ive seen you post in other threads that you think Canada isn't winning because of the false misconception that Canada can't win in the big ice. way to keep wavering

Hi Hitmen,

I did not say that - if you can find a post where I did, please point it out. I said the big ice was a major concern and the only thing holding us back. My picks are, and have been,

G - Canada
S - Russia
B - Sweden
4th - US
5th - Finland

**

Anyway the point of my post is...

4 years ago, after the roster was announce, posters said, "This team will not medal."

Then, after the round robin loss against the U.S., one poster (and I honestly do NOT remember who it was) posted (paraphrasing):

"Let me remind everyone that I was the FIRST to say, after the roster was announced, that 'This team will NOT medal!!!' Now you all know I was right!"

Of course, when the team won Gold, I assume he jumped on the bandwagon like so many others.

Anyway, I am just trying to beat that poster, and others, to the punch. And it's all in fun.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I can't believe people don't have Seabrook as a consensus lock. He was an absolute beast in the Stanley Cup finals and plays with Keith.

He's a slam dunk for me.

He started with Keith in Vancouver 2010, but looked a step slow and was eventually relegated to 7th defenseman, and this was when the games were played on an NHL-sized ice rink. I cannot see how his performance would improve on the larger European ice dimensions.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

Ok, then let me be the first to say that Yzerman is an idiot!!!!
They would have won gold if only <name to be inserted later> was on the team!!!!

Good one! I forgot that one.

 

[417]

No one is arguing that Shea Weber has as much flash and dash as Subban. Weber is a rock defensively though. Just so strong in front of the net.
As a Canadian fan I wouldn't have Subban on either of my top two pairs but that is what makes this whole discussion so interesting as different people have such different views.

I disagree that Weber is a rock defensively...it's not because a player plays a punishing style, like Weber does, that he's a rock defensively.

 

[hitmen19]

LOL! So at least you admit you have no evidence for your 'fact'. That's progress.
There have been lots of articles written and projections saying it is up for grabs.
But at the end of the day none of the prognostications mean squat.
Both will be on the team and the guy making the decision will be Mike Babcock. It's his call. Last time around Luongo won the gold for him but I think both guys get a good look and they go with the hot hand.
You disagree. That's fine. We have different opinions.

I gave you a lot more then My opinion. The people that have been following the whole process say that price is the consensus starter from the Talks they have heard following the discussion with team Canada brass. Just like quick is starter for the usa team, they heard sitting in with team usa brass. Could things change, of course they can if price gets injured or has a horrible January, but as it stands, Price is going to be the starter.

Funny you first say posters are split, but besides a guy from vancity, or bc or luongo in his name, not one person thinks luongo should start. Then you change your tune to saying it doesn't matter because it didn't match what you said. What is it with homers wanting their hometown idols being the man at the detriment to the team.

Then you say there is a lot of articles and projections that say its a toss up, but yet can't provide one such article or list. I used a list from people who have had inside knowledge of the situation as my list, where is yours???

 

[Burnaby_Joe*]

He is absolutely spectacular defensively, his offense has improved, but certainly not what you typically get from team Canada. Excellent skater, probably the best stick on stick defender in the entire league. It's rare to see a defensive d-man who drives as much possession as Vlasic does.

Within a minute left in a game with Canadaup 1-0, I am entirely positive Vlasic would be on the ice.

I agree with everything you said, but the bolded. I'd feel more confident having Keith and Weber on the ice with a minute left in a game.

 

[TT1]

They will give Lu his chance first. If he's playing solid, he'll get the starts. If he's off, they will not hesitate to go with Price.

Bolded: What complete nonsense.

yea thats what im thinking too, theyre definitely gonna give lu a chance to prove himself first

 

[BeardyCanuck03]

considering they haven't won the olympics on big ice in over 70 years, its a pretty damming misconception.

and its been 6 years since they have won a gold on big ice in the world championships. 4 years since they have even won a medal.

The only Olympics played on NHL sized ice was 2010 in Vancouver. 2002 in Salt Lake was played on the international sized ice.

http://arenaguide.iihf.com/en/news/index.php?nid=7

 

[hitmen19]

Can you provide evidence where he is not being considered?

You are arguing opinion. The other party here has acknowledged he is stating his opinion, just as clearly as you are stating yours.

Personally, I think he has the right of it. I think Luongo will come out of the gate for Canada. Much like 2010 when Brodeur did. If Luongo falters (as Brodeur did), Price will be ready for his shot.

No one's denying Price is having an excellent year. What I - and a few other Canuck fans, yes - are assuming is going to happen is based primarily on what has occurred in the past since most of the players and personnel involved are the same as they were in 2010. We're drawing assumptions from that; not facts.

Canada learned from 2006 that we don't base the current team on what happened on the past. If we do, expect to see nash staal Richards heatley morrow on the team. No, the brass is going with who is playing the best right NOW, not what happened 4 years ago.

Luongo wasn't even the starter on his team last year.

 

[4th_Liner]

interesting piece here:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...nada-quotes-and-reactions-sochi-olympics-2014

 

[CornKicker]

Stamkos/Crosby/Carter
Duchence/Getzlaf/Perry
Tavares/Toews/Benn
Staal/Bergeron/Couture
Thornton/Sharp

Weber/Doughty
Keith/Vlasic
Pietrangelo/Bouwmeester
Subban/Seabrook

Luongo
Price
Smith

 

[Willting*]

Kunitz - Crosby - Nash
Sharp - Toews - Giroux
Duchene- Getzlaf - Perry
Tavares - Stamkos - St.Louis
Couture
Staal

Keith - Seabrook
Bouwmeester - Pietrangelo
Doughty - Weber
Vlasic - Subban

Price
Luongo
Smith

 

[Barrie22]

considering Canada was sending amateurs up until 1998, I think you can throw all the years before that out the window. Canada lost in a shootout in 1998, won in 2002, and lost 2-0 to the Russian in the qf in 2006 albeit had a horrible tourney.

Canada has lost once in an elimination game during regular play on big ice best on best, ill take that record against any of the other big nations, any day. That is without even considering 2010, when Canada would have won with that team anywhere, any ice

Russia hasn't won gold since they moved best on best, and there one silver they lost to the team that we lost to in a shootout, so I guess Russia can't win on the big ice either during best on best

Sweden didn't medal in 98 or 02, they won in torino, but they also lost 3-0 and 5-0 during that tourney.

So I guess these two teams should have no chance either.

2002 was small ice.

so far they have a 4th and a 7th place finish on big ice. 2 golds on small ice.

the sweds have a gold and a 5th place finish on big ice.
the russians have a silver and a 4th place finish on big ice.

canada has a 4th and 7th place finish on big ice.

 

[OttawaRoughRiderFan*]

2002 was small ice.

It was the big ice in 2002, Barrie.

 

[Frank the Tank]

It was the big ice in 2002, Barrie.

That fact should be posted in a FAQ at the beginning of each thread.

 

[4th_Liner]

interesting piece here:
http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...nada-quotes-and-reactions-sochi-olympics-2014

"No doubt mobility is gonna be a real factor on a rink which is 15-feet wider. Certainly want mobile, puck-moving defense. I think you always do." - Holland

"I put Subban on the list, because my thinking is he's one of the leading scoring defensemen in the league, he's a got a ****ing rocket of a shot, and you can put him on the right point on the power play. Does he make a mistake? Yeah, probably. But I think you've gotta at least talk about Subban." - Holland

"Yeah. Seabrook makes good plays. He sees the ice calm, has the play in front of him. And he's smart. Really smart on rims and where guys are. Hamonic doesn't have that yet." - Chiarelli

"If Kunitz wasn't playing with Crosby...how good is he. Well I keep going back to last year when they finished in the top 10 in scoring and Crosby missed [time]. So if god forbid Sid got hurt....it looks like [Kunitz] is making it on his own. You can play him with Getzlaf."
"He's got great hands, eh, Thornton. Just fishes pucks out of there." - Armstrong

"Thornton just hangs onto the puck, makes plays."

"That's a good line, eh?" "Pretty nice power play unit." -Armstrong, Yzerman on Couture, Marleau, Thornton, Pavelski, Boyle.

i think they should bring all of marleau, thornton, and couture.

 

[hitmen19]

2002 was small ice.

so far they have a 4th and a 7th place finish on big ice. 2 golds on small ice.

the sweds have a gold and a 5th place finish on big ice.
the russians have a silver and a 4th place finish on big ice.

canada has a 4th and 7th place finish on big ice.

so im guessing you didn't actually watch Canada play and beat the usa in salt lake city. another poster that didn't actually watch, just goes off box scores

and our 4th was because we lost in a shootout, when our puck hit the post and came out, and their puck hit the post and went in against the best goalie of the last 30 years. Canada has lost one time elimination games in regulation play, and that was to Russia 2-0 on the big ice in best on best. Hardly a record that is underwhelming