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Confirmed with Link: 2013-14 Training Camp Discussion

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Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
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417 said:
Oh I agree about depth...and that's precisely what Bouillon should be, a depth player

But seems like his position on the depth chart is unchallenged. There's virtually nothing one of the kids can do to unseat Bouillon

That's where I disagree...the top 4 is pretty much set

But the following players

Bouillon, Murray, Tinordi, Pateryn, Beaulieu, Drewiskie and even Nygren should in theory be battling for the 5-6-7-8 spots

Yes, Tinordi still has a lot to learn and will be prone to mistakes. But can anyone tell me Bouillon doesn't make mistakes?

If the performance of Bouillon vs the other young players is virtually the same, I have trouble understanding how it makes more sense to play Bouillon.

Just my opinion...although I admit, i've NEVER been a Bouillon fan
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If Tinordi looks like a full fleged NHL d-man the last few exhibitions(against NHLers) I think they'll find a way to have him on the team and in the lineup.

Bouillon does make mistakes, but if you watched last year's playoffs, Tinordi didn't play against top lines and still had a few plays that directly or indirectly led to some goals. Bouillon did not.

It makes more sense to play Bouillon because you can develop your kids instead of rushing them into a spot where they have to try and just survive, plus you need to have a mix of vets with the kids.
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
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zzoo said:
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....
Click to expand...

Bouillon and Tinordi don't make a team slower, both have good mobility. Murray and Parros will combine for about 18 minutes a game in certain situations, it's not like those guys are replacing Subban Diaz or Plekanec.
 

teh doors

ice hockey fan
Nov 15, 2010
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One huge change that MB and MT have brought in.. There are now no depth players that don't bring grit or physical play. Prust, White, Moen, Parros, Blunden, Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske. No more Darche, Weber, Kaberle, Campoli, whoever. There's still some dead weight in there but only on defence for another season or so until Pateryn, Tinordi, and Beaulieu move in.

Say what you will about Bouillon's game declining, he's definitely a heart and soul Hab, can fight, hit, skate the puck well- just shouldn't be playing huge minutes or on the PP. And Murray may be slow as ****, but it's good to see the team have a 6'3 tank as depth instead of extra soft puck movers.

Also really comfortable with Bournival and hopefully Leblanc adding skill and energy anywhere in the top nine as call ups. Could see them filling in well of the three lines.
 
Habs 4 Life

Habs 4 Life

No Excuses
Mar 30, 2005
41,030
4,820
Montreal
Monctonscout said:
Bouillon and Tinordi don't make a team slower, both have good mobility. Murray and Parros will combine for about 18 minutes a game in certain situations, it's not like those guys are replacing Subban Diaz or Plekanec.
Click to expand...

They're still replacing 2 guys that are faster then them. I understand the Parros situation as we need an enforcer but Murray after watching all of the Pens playoffs not sure he is a good fit. He kills penalties but 5 on 5 he is slow as hell and will be caught with plenty of "holding" penalties
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
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Habs 4 Life said:
They're still replacing 2 guys that are faster then them. I understand the Parros situation as we need an enforcer but Murray after watching all of the Pens playoffs not sure he is a good fit. He kills penalties but 5 on 5 he is slow as hell and will be caught with plenty of "holding" penalties
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Again, we're talking minor roles.

He's lost some weight from last year, so hopefully Murray is a bit faster. 5 on 5 you just need to watch his minutes/matchups. If Hal Gill can play NHL hockey and be an effective role player Murray can too. He does everything Gill can, maybe a bit less reach, but more of a mean streak and can fight.
 
Sorinth

Sorinth

Registered User
Jan 18, 2013
11,055
5,545
The Doors said:
One huge change that MB and MT have brought in.. There are now no depth players that don't bring grit or physical play. Prust, White, Moen, Parros, Blunden, Murray, Bouillon, Drewiske. No more Darche, Weber, Kaberle, Campoli, whoever. There's still some dead weight in there but only on defence for another season or so until Pateryn, Tinordi, and Beaulieu move in.

Say what you will about Bouillon's game declining, he's definitely a heart and soul Hab, can fight, hit, skate the puck well- just shouldn't be playing huge minutes or on the PP. And Murray may be slow as ****, but it's good to see the team have a 6'3 tank as depth instead of extra soft puck movers.

Also really comfortable with Bournival and hopefully Leblanc adding skill and energy anywhere in the top nine as call ups. Could see them filling in well of the three lines.
Click to expand...

It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
1
Sorinth said:
It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.
Click to expand...

The 4th line is not like a typical NHL 4th line. A guy like Prust will play more minutes, often jumping up on other lines, plus he and Moen get a lot of PK minutes and late game protecting a lead type minutes also.
 

teh doors

ice hockey fan
Nov 15, 2010
1,816
0
Sorinth said:
It's true that our depth players are now physical guys, but at the same time we are paying a premium for them as well. We are spending nearly 10m on our 4th line, bottom pairing D, and healthy scratches. That's 15% of the salary cap. We probably have the most expensive 4th line in the league.
Click to expand...

That's true. Prust is worth it for the toughness and versatility. Moen earned his deal but its outlasting him. Hopefully MB can get out of his and DD contract before they expire. Murray and Bouillon are gone next year.

The teams drafted well though. So Hopefully overpaying for size and skill will soon be replaced by drafted players that have a combo of both. Next year a top six of Pacioretty, Plekanec, Gallagher, Eller, Galchenyuk and Bourque sounds good to me. Nobody there is a one dimensional player. And with a future defence of Subban, Tinordi, Beaulieu, Emelin, Gorges and whoever else.. in a year or two the roster should be balanced enough that they can pull a Chicago and fill in the bottom of the lineup every year with one or two bargain vets and talented prospects on cheap deals.
 
Team_Spirit

Team_Spirit

95% Elliotte
Jul 3, 2002
37,754
17,668
Tinordi had a fight today and played mean.

The way he handle himself so far, MB will have to make room for him in the top6.
 

Habaddict

Registered User
Apr 12, 2009
1,344
183
toronto
zzoo said:
Me me me
Murray, Markov, Bouillon, Tinordi, Parros ....
Click to expand...

Well I think the team has gotten continually slower over the last 6 years
or so. But I don't think anyone you mentioned is involved in that process.
OK, maybe Markov. But Markov's passes still drive team speed. In fact, that
may be the biggest reason we still have average team speed.

I'm going to get killed for this. But here it is. The people that make this
version of the habs slow ( and |I didn't mean only slower, but slow.), are
Galchenyuk, Galegher, and DD. Also an older Gionta.

Having players who play limited minutes, and then to supply muscle,
not be fast, doesn't much effect a teams speed. Having players like
Tinordi, skate as well as he does, makes a team faster.

Having players like DD and Galagher be adaquate skaters, really makes
you a slower team. When opponents have players like that in their top six,
they are usually "speed-burners". One might not make a lot of difference.
But you would still be a slower team.

Galchenyuk, adaquate skater, but mostly because of the other things he
brings.
Gallagher, adaquate skater, but only because of the other things he brings.
DD, is certainly less that an average skater in his role. Most very small players
who play his minutes, in his role, are much faster.
If you add this to an ageing Gionta, this is a slow group of forwards. Only
Plenc and Eller are very good skaters. No one is a great skater.
MaxPac is a plus for his size, but really, among 1st line forwards he's
not going to be much over average.

Anyhow, it is the top end of the roster that decides if you have a fast team.
I lived in Edmonton when Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, and such
were young. I won't bore you with all the slow players that played a lot less
minutes. Trust me for this, they didn't make the Oilers a slow team.
 
Draft

Draft

Registered User
Jan 23, 2013
8,437
5,116
Habaddict said:
Well I think the team has gotten continually slower over the last 6 years
or so. But I don't think anyone you mentioned is involved in that process.
OK, maybe Markov. But Markov's passes still drive team speed. In fact, that
may be the biggest reason we still have average team speed.

I'm going to get killed for this. But here it is. The people that make this
version of the habs slow ( and |I didn't mean only slower, but slow.), are
Galchenyuk, Galegher, and DD. Also an older Gionta.

Having players who play limited minutes, and then to supply muscle,
not be fast, doesn't much effect a teams speed. Having players like
Tinordi, skate as well as he does, makes a team faster.

Having players like DD and Galagher be adaquate skaters, really makes
you a slower team. When opponents have players like that in their top six,
they are usually "speed-burners". One might not make a lot of difference.
But you would still be a slower team.

Galchenyuk, adaquate skater, but mostly because of the other things he
brings.
Gallagher, adaquate skater, but only because of the other things he brings.
DD, is certainly less that an average skater in his role. Most very small players
who play his minutes, in his role, are much faster.
If you add this to an ageing Gionta, this is a slow group of forwards. Only
Plenc and Eller are very good skaters. No one is a great skater.
MaxPac is a plus for his size, but really, among 1st line forwards he's
not going to be much over average.

Anyhow, it is the top end of the roster that decides if you have a fast team.
I lived in Edmonton when Gretzky, Messier, Anderson, Kurri, Coffey, and such
were young. I won't bore you with all the slow players that played a lot less
minutes. Trust me for this, they didn't make the Oilers a slow team.
Click to expand...

This guy with all his guts and his controversial opinions. It's kind of what I was feeling as well and why I worry about potentially losing guys like Markov and Diaz (puck-movers who can speed up a team's attack) to Free Agency while we add slow players like Murray and Bouillon with little puck-moving ability. He wouldn't have fit with our hope for more size but, I was pushing for us to sign Mason Raymond this summer. He would have given us another option on the attack other than just skill. Thomas might fit well with this group, he's a very fast skater.

Skill, speed, size.
 
Moen is Gone

Moen is Gone

@MoeninGlory
Feb 13, 2007
5,548
120
Grenoble
twitter.com
Maxpac said:
Da ****? He fought where? Practice?
Click to expand...

images
 

Monctonscout

Monctonscout
Jan 26, 2008
34,935
1
A big part of team speed is having very good puck moving d-men. You can be as fast as you want but if break outs are slow and painful then your speed is pretty useless.
 

Habaddict

Registered User
Apr 12, 2009
1,344
183
toronto
Monctonscout said:
A big part of team speed is having very good puck moving d-men. You can be as fast as you want but if break outs are slow and painful then your speed is pretty useless.
Click to expand...

Agreed. That's what I meant. Markov makes our team faster. But
man it hurts to watch him skate.
Still my favorite player since I (ok we ) lost Koivu.
 
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