2012-2013 World Junior Championships (part II)

[GJF]

Re: Scheifele

Don't really know what else we would want from him to this point. The Jets asked him to get stronger this year, work on his 2 way play, as well as his skating. Last year in Barrie he did all three, AND has been near the top of the scoring race.

He joins the junior team and is asked to play out of position (and role as instead of being the distributor, is asked to play in front of the net and take Holmstrom like abuse) and he not only does that, but is player of the game in one of the games, has 2 gwg, and after 5 games is tied for 6th in scoring (tied for 3rd on Canada), and behind some guys who have played 6 games.

Pretty comical though that when Scheifele got the player of the game the anti-Scheifele crowd is silent. And now that Hamilton has had a pretty average to below average tournament, the "we should have drafted Hamilton" crowd is silent. But after a game in which the entire Canadian team played like crap, it's somehow anti-Scheifele time? lol.

Maybe he won't end up being the guy the team should have taken. Maybe he doesn't take any more steps forward and becomes a 2nd or 3rd line forward. Maybe Couturier becomes a dominant #1C. Maybe Hamilton becomes a stud D man. Maybe someone picked after all 3 becomes the best player in the draft. At this stage, NOBODY can determine if it was the best pick because we don't know how the future will unfold. All we know so far is that the guy the team picked has done exactly what the team has asked (added size, defense, increased scoring, world juniors, etc).

 

[ps241]

Re: Scheifele

Don't really know what else we would want from him to this point. The Jets asked him to get stronger this year, work on his 2 way play, as well as his skating. Last year in Barrie he did all three, AND has been near the top of the scoring race.

He joins the junior team and is asked to play out of position (and role as instead of being the distributor, is asked to play in front of the net and take Holmstrom like abuse) and he not only does that, but is player of the game in one of the games, has 2 gwg, and after 5 games is tied for 6th in scoring (tied for 3rd on Canada), and behind some guys who have played 6 games.

Pretty comical though that when Scheifele got the player of the game the anti-Scheifele crowd is silent. And now that Hamilton has had a pretty average to below average tournament, the "we should have drafted Hamilton" crowd is silent. But after a game in which the entire Canadian team played like crap, it's somehow anti-Scheifele time? lol.

Maybe he won't end up being the guy the team should have taken. Maybe he doesn't take any more steps forward and becomes a 2nd or 3rd line forward. Maybe Couturier becomes a dominant #1C. Maybe Hamilton becomes a stud D man. Maybe someone picked after all 3 becomes the best player in the draft. At this stage, NOBODY can determine if it was the best pick because we don't know how the future will unfold. All we know so far is that the guy the team picked has done exactly what the team has asked (added size, defense, increased scoring, world juniors, etc).

My man Huffer!!

Your post says it all know need to add anything

 

[KingBogo]

I won't quote it again but great post Huffer. Scheifele will do just fine for us. Looking forward to him showing the world what he can to at the NHL level.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

I think Trouba could challenge for a spot next year. He has been the D man of the tourney so far.

 

[truck]

I won't quote it again but great post Huffer. Scheifele will do just fine for us. Looking forward to him showing the world what he can to at the NHL level.

Same.

 

[garret9]

I think Trouba could challenge for a spot next year. He has been the D man of the tourney so far.

Could, but unlikely.

Jets' won't bring him to camp or tryouts until the spot is his to lose, not for him to struggle and win.
If he doesn't make the team he can't go back to the NCAA... he'd have to play AHL.

 

[razorsedge]

Thanks for posting the Trouba fight video. Not that I want him to risk injury with fighting in the NHL, just knowing he's not going to be a push over in that department makes me like him even more.

Scheifele doing everything the Jets have asked shows great potential. To work that hard at that age deserves more respect from some posters here. I'll be honest, I'm skeptical that he'll be a 1st liner, but feel he'll still be a solid contributer for the Jets when he makes the team. Hard work and dedication always wins in the end.

 

[jetkarma*]

IMO Trouba could challenge for a roster spot next year , will he? Probably not as I think the Jets weigh everything and let him play one more year at Michigan and have his third WJC series , maybe as the captain.

It isn't hard to envision Trouba being able to not only play but contribute well next year though , hard to not gush over his play , he has been fantastic . Well rounded , so many positives in his game , so so many. Wow ... kid is gold.

 

[peter sullivan]

Scheifele will be interesting to watch, thats for sure....its a bit unfair to the kid because he was hyped so much at the beginning of last season when the frenzy machine was on overload.

my concern all along was not him, but the practice of reaching in the draft when you are choosing top 8....i am ok with it mid round because that is truly a crap shoot, but with a high pick, in my opinion you should stay conservative....couturier was the pick....he was the safer choice....its possible that MS will be as good or maybe better, but in the long run i believe that reaching for high picks is bad practice.

that being said, i must admit that i am worried about him....i really don't see the raw skill that everyone else does...or that i would hope to see in a top pick like him....he skates like he has a cement bag on his shoulders, he cant stickhandle, he's not big, he doesn't carry the play at all....he seems like he needs good players around him to be effective...which is fine i suppose.....he is a right place at the right time kind of guy....but to be that guy in the NHL you need to be prepared to battle in front of the net....will he be able to do that?...he's not a fleet footed, rocket shot kane, he's not a dipsy doodler burmistrov....he scores his goals by banging in rebounds or getting into position to receive a good pass....which is an important skill....he seems to score goals where he touches the puck for a millisecond...its rarely a play that he created....maybe i'm wrong....admittedly i dont watch him day in and day out....i just hope he can take those abilities and transfer them to the NHL.....its not as easy as someone who is fast or skilled.

he did get some points this tournament, but he was on the top line and top PP on the team....stats dont mean a lot at this point...i am looking more for the tools that will translate into an NHL player and right now, i see a third line guy.....hopefully i am wrong....i really really want to be, but i just dont see what everyone else does.


trouba sure looked great though...who would have guessed he wold outscore MS in this tournament.

 

[JetsHomer]

I watched every game. I don't know what your talking about. He made a ton happen offensively. You can't just say he got points for being on the first line when he is a key contributer.

He has NHL level awareness and play making and a great shot. Only downside is his skating. I also don't know how you can say he's not big when he's 6'3...

 

[King Woodballs]

Reinhart suspended 4 games for a slash to the head

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Reinhart suspended 4 games for a slash to the head

I'm assuming that's going to carry over to the WHL...

 

[Bob E]

I'm assuming that's going to carry over to the WHL...

Doesn't appear so. May impact whether he can play next year. Canada is appealing. 4 games seems to be pretty severe, compared to other suspensions handed out.

 

[ps241]

Scheifele will be interesting to watch, thats for sure....its a bit unfair to the kid because he was hyped so much at the beginning of last season when the frenzy machine was on overload.

my concern all along was not him, but the practice of reaching in the draft when you are choosing top 8....i am ok with it mid round because that is truly a crap shoot, but with a high pick, in my opinion you should stay conservative....couturier was the pick....he was the safer choice....its possible that MS will be as good or maybe better, but in the long run i believe that reaching for high picks is bad practice.

that being said, i must admit that i am worried about him....i really don't see the raw skill that everyone else does...or that i would hope to see in a top pick like him....he skates like he has a cement bag on his shoulders, he cant stickhandle, he's not big, he doesn't carry the play at all....he seems like he needs good players around him to be effective...which is fine i suppose.....he is a right place at the right time kind of guy....but to be that guy in the NHL you need to be prepared to battle in front of the net....will he be able to do that?...he's not a fleet footed, rocket shot kane, he's not a dipsy doodler burmistrov....he scores his goals by banging in rebounds or getting into position to receive a good pass....which is an important skill....he seems to score goals where he touches the puck for a millisecond...its rarely a play that he created....maybe i'm wrong....admittedly i dont watch him day in and day out....i just hope he can take those abilities and transfer them to the NHL.....its not as easy as someone who is fast or skilled.

he did get some points this tournament, but he was on the top line and top PP on the team....stats dont mean a lot at this point...i am looking more for the tools that will translate into an NHL player and right now, i see a third line guy.....hopefully i am wrong....i really really want to be, but i just dont see what everyone else does.


trouba sure looked great though...who would have guessed he wold outscore MS in this tournament.

I loved Huffer's post because it was well constructed and I am pro Scheifele, however I enjoy debate and your post is really solid as well Peter. Even though I don't agree with all of it you could well be spot on since we are all guessing at this point. I don't mind at all when Jets fans want Mark to succeed but question the pick at the time or even question his skill level now. What usually gets under my skin (not sure why I let that happen) is when supposed Jets fans seem to be cheering for Mark to fail so they can be right in some mindless debate?

Your post pulls no punches but comes from a place tough love and faint hope which is all good in my books

 

[Jeti]

From what I've seen Trouba has been the best defenseman of the tournament so far. Very happy with that pick.

Doesn't appear so. May impact whether he can play next year. Canada is appealing. 4 games seems to be pretty severe, compared to other suspensions handed out.

Supposedly it's the longest suspension in the tournament history, which is absurd considering it's probably the most innocent of all suspended actions just this year. There was no intent and no injury - I have no idea what the IIHF is even thinking on this one.

 

[Aerial]

he skates like he has a cement bag on his shoulders, he cant stickhandle, he's not big, he doesn't carry the play at all....he seems like he needs good players around him to be effective...which is fine i suppose.....he is a right place at the right time kind of guy....but to be that guy in the NHL you need to be prepared to battle in front of the net....will he be able to do that?...he's not a fleet footed, rocket shot kane, he's not a dipsy doodler burmistrov....he scores his goals by banging in rebounds or getting into position to receive a good pass....which is an important skill....he seems to score goals where he touches the puck for a millisecond...its rarely a play that he created....maybe i'm wrong....

To be a little blunt -- yeah, you're wrong. His playmaking wasn't as evident at the WJC since he was learning the wing and was playing more of a role as the finish guy for RNH (which worked out pretty well there at the start, too bad about Team Canada's collective brutal end).

But if you watch Colts games -- or just read some of the many scouting reports on him this season -- you'll know that his primary skill is as a playmaker. On the Colts, the offense flows through him; he makes the players around him better, not the other way around. Remember, he is the playmaker on his line, which is one of the best lines in the entire OHL.

He's not a flashy player and never will be, although he busts out some beauty skill moves from time to time, but the combination of high-end vision, hockey IQ, passing and a pretty sweet wrister are what make him a real offensive threat. How that translates to the NHL is yet to be seen, of course, but let's not mistake what kind of player he fundamentally is.

I'd suggest taking some time the rest of this season to regularly check out Colts highlights, at least, and not just of Scheifele's goals but all of his assists as well. That should clear up any misunderstandings about his style of play.

 

[truck]

...

...

I kind of agree with both of you.

People do need to chill when it comes to forming strong opinions based on a small sample size, especially if it is a single game. While Scheifele wasn't great vs the US, I can't name anyone who was much better. Even Strome who probably flashed more offence than any other Canadian looked like a complete mess defensively. Defenders couldn't complete passes or clear the zone. Forwards couldn't forecheck or maintain the offensive zone. Drouin got booted of the 1st line. The whole team was a mess.

All in all I was happy with Scheifele's tournament and I am happy with how he has progressed. His game is developing at a nice rate and I have no doubt that his offence will carry over to the NHL, of course to what extent is a question mark.



As for the negatives, Scheifele will never be a flashy puck carrier like RNH, Drouin or Strome. Scheifele will never be a speedster. Scheifele will never bring consistent epic dipsy doodles, but those aren't the only way to have success in the NHL.

Scheifele has considerable defensive value and he does create offence. Scheif is a playmaker. He does it with crisp passes, a quick wrister and a crud load of smarts. The Jets are looking for him to develop into a Thornton, J Staal or Getzlaf type player, not a Datsyuk, Stammer or Nuge.



Scheifele does have limits, but he also has considerable skill (the type of skill that can translate to the NHL).

It will be interesting to see how his game fits into the NHL.

 

[buggs]

Scheifele has considerable defensive value and he does create offence. Scheif is a playmaker. He does it with crisp passes, a quick wrister and a crud load of smarts. The Jets are looking for him to develop into a Thornton, J Staal or Getzlaf type player, not a Datsyuk, Stammer or Nuge.

Drooling at the notion of Scheifele developing into that type of player.

 

[truck]

Drooling at the notion of Scheifele developing into that type of player.

Me too.

Obviously that is a pretty high bar, but I'm sure that is what the Jets are hoping for.

 

[Huffer]

I loved Huffer's post because it was well constructed and I am pro Scheifele, however I enjoy debate and your post is really solid as well Peter. Even though I don't agree with all of it you could well be spot on since we are all guessing at this point. I don't mind at all when Jets fans want Mark to succeed but question the pick at the time or even question his skill level now. What usually gets under my skin (not sure why I let that happen) is when supposed Jets fans seem to be cheering for Mark to fail so they can be right in some mindless debate?

Your post pulls no punches but comes from a place tough love and faint hope which is all good in my books

I agree PS. And I agree with your comment that Peter's post was solid. We don't know what Scheifele will become, so anything could happen in the next 5-10 years. But I agree that a Jet fan wanting Scheifele to fail so he can say "told you", seems ridiculous to me.

I kind of agree with both of you.

People do need to chill when it comes to forming strong opinions based on a small sample size, especially if it is a single game. While Scheifele wasn't great vs the US, I can't name anyone who was much better. Even Strome who probably flashed more offence than any other Canadian looked like a complete mess defensively. Defenders couldn't complete passes or clear the zone. Forwards couldn't forecheck or maintain the offensive zone. Drouin got booted of the 1st line. The whole team was a mess.

All in all I was happy with Scheifele's tournament and I am happy with how he has progressed. His game is developing at a nice rate and I have no doubt that his offence will carry over to the NHL, of course to what extent is a question mark.

As for the negatives, Scheifele will never be a flashy puck carrier like RNH, Drouin or Strome. Scheifele will never be a speedster. Scheifele will never bring consistent epic dipsy doodles, but those aren't the only way to have success in the NHL.

Scheifele has considerable defensive value and he does create offence. Scheif is a playmaker. He does it with crisp passes, a quick wrister and a crud load of smarts. The Jets are looking for him to develop into a Thornton, J Staal or Getzlaf type player, not a Datsyuk, Stammer or Nuge.


Scheifele does have limits, but he also has considerable skill (the type of skill that can translate to the NHL).

It will be interesting to see how his game fits into the NHL.

My thoughts as well. Your post is saying something else I was thinking but didn't get into my earlier post. I'm not saying that he can't improve his skating or balance, because for sure he can. Maybe he could improve more than others, but there are very few players his age that couldn't improve those skills. Heck, give me the types of players who NEVER stop improving their basic skills.

But the posts pointing it out ad naseum (to be fair, a lot are not on the Jets board), make me think of the quote that used to be in I think Jets signature line about having a cat and wanting it to chase sticks.

 

[Romang67]

Just to stir the pot a bit.

What do you think of Scheifele's "diving antics"?

I, for one, hate diving like nothing else. It would probably turn me against him as a player if he was a notorious diver. However, I'm not sure how much he's actually diving, and how much his balance is just incredibly off. Even when there is no contact, he keeps falling over all the time.

I don't watch the Colts, so I would be interested in hearing what you guys think of this.

 

[truck]

Just to stir the pot a bit.

What do you think of Scheifele's "diving antics"?

I, for one, hate diving like nothing else. It would probably turn me against him as a player if he was a notorious diver. However, I'm not sure how much he's actually diving, and how much his balance is just incredibly off. Even when there is no contact, he keeps falling over all the time.

I don't watch the Colts, so I would be interested in hearing what you guys think of this.

It could be diving. It could be terrible balance. I don't care one way or another.

I only hate diving when it bites my team in the butt. If it gives us a powerplay... *shrug*

 

[King Woodballs]

Just to stir the pot a bit.

What do you think of Scheifele's "diving antics"?

I, for one, hate diving like nothing else. It would probably turn me against him as a player if he was a notorious diver. However, I'm not sure how much he's actually diving, and how much his balance is just incredibly off. Even when there is no contact, he keeps falling over all the time.

I don't watch the Colts, so I would be interested in hearing what you guys think of this.

everyone has been diving the entire tournament

lots of players for every team.

I don't like it, but with the brutal reffing, they know they can draw calls

 

[ps241]

Trouba vs. Hamilton poll over on the main board if anyone cares to weigh in. So far Trouba is ahead and some posters have their knickers in a knot (he says stirring the pot just a bit). I like Doug allot even though he hasn't had a great tourney and has really hurt me in my draft

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=57107377#post57107377

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Just to stir the pot a bit.

What do you think of Scheifele's "diving antics"?

I, for one, hate diving like nothing else. It would probably turn me against him as a player if he was a notorious diver. However, I'm not sure how much he's actually diving, and how much his balance is just incredibly off. Even when there is no contact, he keeps falling over all the time.

I don't watch the Colts, so I would be interested in hearing what you guys think of this.

Gonna get hated on hard for this, but at times it reminds me of Dustin Brown when he was younger. Had terrible balance and some of the times he was accused of diving, it was merely his poor balance. Combine that with going down easy at times (which Scheifele has done), it makes it hard to tell sometimes.

Trouba vs. Hamilton poll over on the main board if anyone cares to weigh in. So far Trouba is ahead and some posters have their knickers in a knot (he says stirring the pot just a bit). I like Doug allot even though he hasn't had a great tourney and has really hurt me in my draft

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?p=57107377#post57107377

As much as Trouba's development has been awesome I don't think he is quite at Hamilton's level quite yet. He's had a MUCH better tournament, but it's a small sample size.