Post-Game Talk: 2/26/18 | Canucks 1 @ Avs 3

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
20,105
8,847
Daniel no doubt gets his 20. Now shooting for 25. Henrik gunning for 5o assists.

Both could end up with 50 points each. They will easily be at least 2/3 in scoring on the team. With that staring both the twins and Lindenning in the face, re-signing them for at least one more year will be unstoppable. I wouldn't fall out of my seat if it was for 2 more years. Pettersson and Dahlen need Swedish tutors and their leadership for the rest of the team is priceless

The Sedins, 2,. Both UFAs and probably take a cut, but to what? Probably depends if it's for 2y rs or 1.

Gagner, Del Zotto, Eriksson, Sutter, Gudbranson, Edler, Boeser, Horvat are not going anywhere, 8 more and all have contracts.

Benning said Baertschi and Virtanen are part of the future., 2 more and both are RFAs.

He also likes Tanev a lot, 1 more under contract and it's dirt cheap for what he does.

You know he is banking on Pettersson and Gaudette, 2 more at max ELCs.

Juolevi is going to get a shot, max ELC. Leipsic is going to also get a shot, under contract. How about Dahlen at Max ELC? Maybe 3 more, but 2 at least.

That's 19 guys.

There are no new UFAs in this mix. That won't remain as is.
There are only 5 D-men in the 19. need at least 2 more probably 3 you can count on.

Pouliot, Granlund, Stecher, Goldobin, Boucher, Hutton, Biega, Gaunce, Archibald, Dowd, Motte, and yes, Chaput are still in the mix.

The only guys in the leftovers with a contract going into next year are Goldobin, Hutton, Motte, and Gaunce. Goldobin is still waiver free on the last year of his ELC.

Granlund, Stecher, Boucher, Pouliot, and Chaput are RFAs.

Archibald, Dowd, and Biega are UFAs.

You choose who comes out of these last 12 guys, who gets signed, but waived to be sent down if the make it thru, and who ends up released.

Pettersson, Juolevi, Dahlen, Gaudette, and Goldobin are the only waiver exempts out of everybody listed from the Sedins on down.

Benning is either going to have to trade some of these guys for non waiver prospects or a bunch for an NHL guy under contract or he is going to have to wave a bunch a pray for the best. Obviously all of these guys can't be in Vancouver so much should still happen by October/18. This is a problem in not acquiring young prospects and instead loading up on tweeners while signing vet UFAs and having a nucleus that's already under contract. You end up with too many guys and most have to pass through waivers or you have to demote the younger guys who should be playing. It's simply not good planning.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,820
3,401
Burnaby
Every player of any quality ends up getting an NTC when they hit their UFA years and every contending team ends up with a pile of them as they try and extend their window. Look at teams like Chicago and Boston right now.

People who don't understand this are stuck in a Vancouver bubble and don't understand the league as a whole.

Have you noticed that every Pejorative Slured thing this fan base complains about is the exact same thing that our Pejorative Slured writers try to make controversy over?
- Luongo making 10M (didn't understand the cap)
- Giving out NTCs (standard for contending teams picking up UFAs and resigning players for cheap to have added depth)
- Getting no return for Schneider (highest return for a goaltender besides Varlamov in over a decade)
- Getting no return for Luongo (I think we sold really low on Luongo, but he was an aging goalie and I think it's a surprise to a lot of people how good he's been for Florida. We also got our current starter goalie, who gets too much hate given who he has on the blueline. We also got a player that is better than most of Benning's acquisition in Matthias who should have returned a 3rd at the deadline.)
- Luongo's terrible contract being the reason for the poor return (NHL approved the contract and then retroactively punished the Canucks for it in a new CBA, and didn't grandfather old contracts in. We got f***ed, and I think all 30 owners including Aquilini voted for it)
- Poor drafting (Inherited bottom 5 scouting staff in the league and was making big moves to overhaul it, had late position because of success and few picks because we were going all in)
- Can't make a trade (didn't have exceptionally low number of NHL trades compared to other GMs)
- Gillis wouldn't have been able to rebuild anyway because of all the NTCs he gave that we're now stuck with (Garrison, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Burrows, Hansen traded, plus a number of NTCs we had were limited NTCs)
- This was really Nonis' team (as if contract extensions, UFA signings and trade pickups aren't important. It's surprising he was even able to keep that core intact under the cap, and even had to replace players like Ohlund and Mitchell)

These have all been things that I've heard Vancouver, and even national, sports personalities saying. I'm not even saying that all of them are completely wrong, Gillis was in no way perfect, but these things were so overblown that it was a huge controversy and just awful awful managing by Gillis.

Vancouver fans expected this team to be a cup contender every year and couldn't handle it ending. It ended in a pretty brutal way, admittedly, but our entire roster was having career low years. It seemed pretty clear that we would bounce back, but also clear that our window was tightly shut. Teams chant fire Gillis because they're angry and apparently don't understand that after 5 years of success the ride is going to end sometime. Aquilini is one of those fans and now we have what we have.

If Vancouver wasn't stuck with people like Macintyre things might be very different right now. If all of Vancouver sports media wasn't spewing this nonsense, do we really think Aquilini would have acted the same? The media shitting all over Gillis and pumping Benning's tires definitely played a hand in this situation. Even if some of the things I listed are inaccurate or misleading or even completely wrong, most of them aren't and these are the kind of things that Aquilini was no doubt hearing constantly. From 2008-2013 we were legitimately a top team in the NHL. Not just a bubble team but a legitimate contender.

The media in this city is responsible for all of this trash, there is no way that their misleading coverage didn't influence ownership. It was controversy after controversy that were all nothingburgers. The question is was it because they're idiots, or is it because Gillis hurt their feefees by not wanting to answer stupid questions. Well I guess that's both, actually. Many of the things listed aren't just from the Torts year or the SJ year, these were things that were constantly brought up in our peak years that were demonstrably untrue. The fact that the media convinced our fanbase that Luongo's contract being front-loaded is a bad thing is f***ing inexcusable. Either they're being disingenuous to stir controversy or they literally don't understand the sport they're covering.

Literal fake news broke this team.
 

Nomobo

Registered User
Feb 20, 2015
6,477
3,225
Victoria
Sure but he took over in 2008 and the team was already flush with young players drafted in 2003 (Kesler), 2004 (Schneider, Edler, Hansen), and 2005 (Raymond). How many picks from his oldest draft (2008) were likely to find spots on a Cup contending team in 2009 (age 19), 2010 (age 20) or 2011 (age 21)? Hodgson progressed pretty well and he didn’t make it until 2011-12. So I don’t think Gillis’ poor drafting - and I agree it was poor - had any impact on all the contracts and NTCs signed in 2008, 2009, 2010, and 2011. Maybe by 2012 and 2013 it was starting to be a factor but how many of the NTCs were signed that late in his regime? Probably not many I’d guess.

Yeah. For sure there's a serious gap there from 2004 to 2008 on top of poor drafting record of Gillis that handicapped him. His drafting in the early years should have had an impact for sure in the years 11 thru 13. He obviously saw the writing on the wall and his hand was forced to go for it all in 2011. He may have been afforded more patience if he had drafted talent coming up. I dunno, just a guess.
 

CanaFan

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
19,887
5,849
BC
Yeah. For sure there's a serious gap there from 2004 to 2008 on top of poor drafting record of Gillis that handicapped him. His drafting in the early years should have had an impact for sure in the years 11 thru 13. He obviously saw the writing on the wall and his hand was forced to go for it all in 2011. He may have been afforded more patience if he had drafted talent coming up. I dunno, just a guess.

It’s a definite factor in his being fired, no argument. I just don’t think his drafting had enough time to impact his contracts from 2008-2011 and maybe even 2012, considering they did get Hodgson/Kassian in the line up which isn’t bad for the 2008 draft. 2009 doesn’t really become a factor until 2013 and 2010 until 2014, by which time he’s fired.
 

Nomobo

Registered User
Feb 20, 2015
6,477
3,225
Victoria
TDL is overrated, 38 players got moved for an average of 1.2 per team.
The big winners are the networks.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
54,094
86,488
Vancouver, BC
TDL is overrated, 38 players got moved for an average of 1.2 per team.
The big winners are the networks.

No doubt.

But nobody is saying that it's a disaster that we didn't get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Vanek.

People are upset about the process and the pattern of failure after failure after failure.
 
  • Like
Reactions: timw33 and CanaFan

Nomobo

Registered User
Feb 20, 2015
6,477
3,225
Victoria
No doubt.

But nobody is saying that it's a disaster that we didn't get a 3rd or 4th rounder for Vanek.

People are upset about the process and the pattern of failure after failure after failure.

Seems like a lot of posters would have been thrilled with a 3rd or 4th.
 

Grub

First Line Troll
Jun 30, 2008
9,829
7,778
B.C
Have you noticed that every ******ed thing this fan base complains about is the exact same thing that our ******ed writers try to make controversy over?
- Luongo making 10M (didn't understand the cap)
- Giving out NTCs (standard for contending teams picking up UFAs and resigning players for cheap to have added depth)
- Getting no return for Schneider (highest return for a goaltender besides Varlamov in over a decade)
- Getting no return for Luongo (I think we sold really low on Luongo, but he was an aging goalie and I think it's a surprise to a lot of people how good he's been for Florida. We also got our current starter goalie, who gets too much hate given who he has on the blueline. We also got a player that is better than most of Benning's acquisition in Matthias who should have returned a 3rd at the deadline.)
- Luongo's terrible contract being the reason for the poor return (NHL approved the contract and then retroactively punished the Canucks for it in a new CBA, and didn't grandfather old contracts in. We got ****ed, and I think all 30 owners including Aquilini voted for it)
- Poor drafting (Inherited bottom 5 scouting staff in the league and was making big moves to overhaul it, had late position because of success and few picks because we were going all in)
- Can't make a trade (didn't have exceptionally low number of NHL trades compared to other GMs)
- Gillis wouldn't have been able to rebuild anyway because of all the NTCs he gave that we're now stuck with (Garrison, Kesler, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Burrows, Hansen traded, plus a number of NTCs we had were limited NTCs)
- This was really Nonis' team (as if contract extensions, UFA signings and trade pickups aren't important. It's surprising he was even able to keep that core intact under the cap, and even had to replace players like Ohlund and Mitchell)

These have all been things that I've heard Vancouver, and even national, sports personalities saying. I'm not even saying that all of them are completely wrong, Gillis was in no way perfect, but these things were so overblown that it was a huge controversy and just awful awful managing by Gillis.

Vancouver fans expected this team to be a cup contender every year and couldn't handle it ending. It ended in a pretty brutal way, admittedly, but our entire roster was having career low years. It seemed pretty clear that we would bounce back, but also clear that our window was tightly shut. Teams chant fire Gillis because they're angry and apparently don't understand that after 5 years of success the ride is going to end sometime. Aquilini is one of those fans and now we have what we have.

If Vancouver wasn't stuck with people like Macintyre things might be very different right now. If all of Vancouver sports media wasn't spewing this nonsense, do we really think Aquilini would have acted the same? The media ****ting all over Gillis and pumping Benning's tires definitely played a hand in this situation. Even if some of the things I listed are inaccurate or misleading or even completely wrong, most of them aren't and these are the kind of things that Aquilini was no doubt hearing constantly. From 2008-2013 we were legitimately a top team in the NHL. Not just a bubble team but a legitimate contender.

The media in this city is responsible for all of this trash, there is no way that their misleading coverage didn't influence ownership. It was controversy after controversy that were all nothingburgers. The question is was it because they're idiots, or is it because Gillis hurt their feefees by not wanting to answer stupid questions. Well I guess that's both, actually. Many of the things listed aren't just from the Torts year or the SJ year, these were things that were constantly brought up in our peak years that were demonstrably untrue. The fact that the media convinced our fanbase that Luongo's contract being front-loaded is a bad thing is ****ing inexcusable. Either they're being disingenuous to stir controversy or they literally don't understand the sport they're covering.

Literal fake news broke this team.
All that crap doesn't really matter. Gillis will be remembered as the guy that got us to game 7 of the stanley cup playoffs.

Man this team had so much character in 2011.

Luongo, Bieksa, Burrows, Kesler, Lappiere, etc. the city of Vancouver just absolutely loved their team. I absolutely loved the drama, contreversy (biting) that followed that team.

images
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LickTheEnvelope

Nomobo

Registered User
Feb 20, 2015
6,477
3,225
Victoria
So one draft pick acquired in ~3 years of being the 2nd worst team in the NHL is fine for you? That’s what you consider a good rebuild?

Man I wish you were my dad, I could get away with so much ****.

If I were your dad, the first thing I would do is to teach you to respect your elders. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: dim jim

shottasasa

Registered User
Nov 16, 2011
877
724
Canada
The difference between the Avs this year and last year and this year is astonishing, especially McKinnon. That top line is a hell of a combination of speed and strength. They create a lot of space for themselves by backing teams in a looooong way from the blue line. They were also interfering all over the ice which helped create their space. A lot of it was borderline and wasn't called and was super effective.

Boeser looks tired and hurt, which was always a fear of mine in his rookie season, he's never played such a long schedule at such a high intensity level before. I expect he'll learn for next year.

I like Baerstchi but he is not getting a ton done in the offensive zone, he's not winning enough puck battles.

Goldobin did not have a good game. He is the most creative offensive player outside of the twins now that Vanek is gone so I really want him to succeed, but he needs to get more involved. some of that might be experience as his positioning is a bit off so he always seems a bit late to the action. I hope they give him a good run to the end of the season.

Horvat is Horvat, not much to add there.

Virtanen has gotten better as the season progresses but needs to tidy up some of his d-zone decisions. He is getting much better at passing and using his speed. I can't believe it took him this long to figure out that changing speed using his explosive stride is effective. I would have thought that is something the coaches would have been trying to get through to him since junior.

I like the Sutter-Archibald combo on the PK and 5-5, very blue collar type game. Eriksson worked well on that line as well.

The Sedins look better at this time of year than they have in a long time, 14-16 mins a night works much better for them. I for one hope they come back next year as long as the hand over to the younger generation continues.

Gagner is just a roster filler for me at this point and this game was an example. Good puck skills and offensive instincts but should be replaceable through our prospects. I would have loved to have seen him traded at the deadline or this summer. I'm hoping he can bring back a draft pick at some point from a team that needs help on the PP and has the depth to shelter him ala Columbus last year.

Dowd just looks lost right now, he was not good in this game but didn't play much either.

Edler had been really good in 2018 until a couple games ago, and now he's struggling a bit. He's still the best overall d-man on this team and when he struggles the team struggles.

Gudbranson has been playing better overall in the last month but every time he has the puck and is under pressure it's a bit anxious and can have games where it just all seems to go wrong. If he played a consistently like he did tonight I would not have too much issue with his contract but that's a mighty big if.

Del Zotto is another player I just see as a filler. To me he just seems like a worse version of Edler, he does a lot of things well but isnot great at anything in particular. He is the guy I wanted to see traded as I think he would have brought back a decent return. I am really hoping we finally get some picks for him this summer or at the deadline next year.

I love Stecher's motor and compete, he may not be very big but if he is outworking forwards in the corners and lug the puck out of the zone effectively he is a decent no. 4 d-man. I just wish he had a bit more offense to his game and hit the net with his shots more often.

Pouliot is playing better again. I'm encouraged by some of his plays against forwards down low recently but the consistency is not there

It seems really obvious Ben Hutton's confidence is shook and I hope he gets back on track because he probably still has the most upside of the young d-men. You could see he was trying to be more assertive, but is a bit unsure.

Markstrom can be so good or so poor. When he is good he looks like a no. 1 but again, consistency is the issue. I'm not sure if he ever strings it all together, but we live in hope. We need him for a couple more years to see how Demko goes.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad