Post-Game Talk: 1st place once again, Jets win 5-2

[AlphaLackey]

Wish scheifele got the hatty just to rub it in even more.

Scheifele gets the hatty, then tosses the puck to Maurice.

 

[surixon]

To use you as a jumping off point, why does everyone get a bee in their pants over Scheifele especially when Maurice gets I to the discussion?

I get it, Scheifele wasn't playing to his potential or was very engaged and to be fair it was a long span. But why? Could it be any combination of the 100s of things that have been discussion around her for years? The coaching, the systems, accountability? Even Adam pointed out last year that his own dad didn't coach the players well enough to know what they were supposed to be doing out there. I think it was clear the Jets have been a rudderless ship for years. Maurice had to be convinced to stay when he wanted to leave, what an embarrassment of an organization. TNSE was renown for their ability to keep everything in house until last year the players blew their top.

Scheifele is in the prime of his career making (relative) peanuts and this is the best the organization can do for him? A coach who has done sweet F all for years and then he QUITS only to get Dave Fn Lowry? I'd be pissed too. Just toss away another year for Scheifele in his prime making $3m+/year under value in his contract. You wonder why he's having a crisis at the end of the year? They threw away a year they were supposed to be contenders. Wiped their asses with it and threw it away.

I'm not in the least mad wih Scheifele, he was on our side. He looks great this year, he looks happy this year. Wonder why? Are we a better team on paper without Copp and Stastny? Nope. But we have a new coach who seems to be a real leader with real ideas how to play. I'm not saying Maurice was all bad but he had been out of ideas for a long time. Its how it goes. I know the Jets want their 2 decade career coach like Barry Trotz but he cant even do that again. Its just not how it works. Coaches have a shelf life. Painful lesson learned, you almost burned the franchise down because you put the coach above the organization.

Who exactly was Maurice moving in the last few year's? No one. That's the problem.

To use you as a jumping off point, why does everyone get a bee in their pants over Scheifele especially when Maurice gets I to the discussion?

I get it, Scheifele wasn't playing to his potential or was very engaged and to be fair it was a long span. But why? Could it be any combination of the 100s of things that have been discussion around her for years? The coaching, the systems, accountability? Even Adam pointed out last year that his own dad didn't coach the players well enough to know what they were supposed to be doing out there. I think it was clear the Jets have been a rudderless ship for years. Maurice had to be convinced to stay when he wanted to leave, what an embarrassment of an organization. TNSE was renown for their ability to keep everything in house until last year the players blew their top.

Scheifele is in the prime of his career making (relative) peanuts and this is the best the organization can do for him? A coach who has done sweet F all for years and then he QUITS only to get Dave Fn Lowry? I'd be pissed too. Just toss away another year for Scheifele in his prime making $3m+/year under value in his contract. You wonder why he's having a crisis at the end of the year? They threw away a year they were supposed to be contenders. Wiped their asses with it and threw it away.

I'm not in the least mad wih Scheifele, he was on our side. He looks great this year, he looks happy this year. Wonder why? Are we a better team on paper without Copp and Stastny? Nope. But we have a new coach who seems to be a real leader with real ideas how to play. I'm not saying Maurice was all bad but he had been out of ideas for a long time. Its how it goes. I know the Jets want their 2 decade career coach like Barry Trotz but he cant even do that again. Its just not how it works. Coaches have a shelf life. Painful lesson learned, you almost burned the franchise down because you put the coach above the organization.

Yup I hope Chipman learned his lesson. It's good to have principles but they can't get in the way of results. There is no such thing as a coach for life unless they win multiple cups ala Cooper.

 

[SCP Guy]

First, the 'he' you refer to twice is actually a chick, not a guy.

Second, if you go back and read #130 it's about Schief not being a deep thinker in regards to his comments about Maurice, not about who processes plays faster on the ice.

I hope she is not deeply offended by a stranger referring to her as he on a message board so sorry hahaha.

Don’t see my post having much to do with the one you pointed out.

I can see where you are taking this and I will refrain from playing your game.

Have a good one guy/gal (don’t want to assume your gender you seem to offend easily)

Hopefully the ignore function will work well for us both

 

[LowLefty]

To use you as a jumping off point, why does everyone get a bee in their pants over Scheifele especially when Maurice gets I to the discussion?

I get it, Scheifele wasn't playing to his potential or was very engaged and to be fair it was a long span. But why? Could it be any combination of the 100s of things that have been discussion around her for years? The coaching, the systems, accountability? Even Adam pointed out last year that his own dad didn't coach the players well enough to know what they were supposed to be doing out there. I think it was clear the Jets have been a rudderless ship for years. Maurice had to be convinced to stay when he wanted to leave, what an embarrassment of an organization. TNSE was renown for their ability to keep everything in house until last year the players blew their top.

Scheifele is in the prime of his career making (relative) peanuts and this is the best the organization can do for him? A coach who has done sweet F all for years and then he QUITS only to get Dave Fn Lowry? I'd be pissed too. Just toss away another year for Scheifele in his prime making $3m+/year under value in his contract. You wonder why he's having a crisis at the end of the year? They threw away a year they were supposed to be contenders. Wiped their asses with it and threw it away.

I'm not in the least mad wih Scheifele, he was on our side. He looks great this year, he looks happy this year. Wonder why? Are we a better team on paper without Copp and Stastny? Nope. But we have a new coach who seems to be a real leader with real ideas how to play. I'm not saying Maurice was all bad but he had been out of ideas for a long time. Its how it goes. I know the Jets want their 2 decade career coach like Barry Trotz but he cant even do that again. Its just not how it works. Coaches have a shelf life. Painful lesson learned, you almost burned the franchise down because you put the coach above the organization.

Who exactly was Maurice moving in the last few year's? No one. That's the problem.

To use you as a jumping off point, why does everyone get a bee in their pants over Scheifele especially when Maurice gets I to the discussion?

I get it, Scheifele wasn't playing to his potential or was very engaged and to be fair it was a long span. But why? Could it be any combination of the 100s of things that have been discussion around her for years? The coaching, the systems, accountability? Even Adam pointed out last year that his own dad didn't coach the players well enough to know what they were supposed to be doing out there. I think it was clear the Jets have been a rudderless ship for years. Maurice had to be convinced to stay when he wanted to leave, what an embarrassment of an organization. TNSE was renown for their ability to keep everything in house until last year the players blew their top.

Scheifele is in the prime of his career making (relative) peanuts and this is the best the organization can do for him? A coach who has done sweet F all for years and then he QUITS only to get Dave Fn Lowry? I'd be pissed too. Just toss away another year for Scheifele in his prime making $3m+/year under value in his contract. You wonder why he's having a crisis at the end of the year? They threw away a year they were supposed to be contenders. Wiped their asses with it and threw it away.

I'm not in the least mad wih Scheifele, he was on our side. He looks great this year, he looks happy this year. Wonder why? Are we a better team on paper without Copp and Stastny? Nope. But we have a new coach who seems to be a real leader with real ideas how to play. I'm not saying Maurice was all bad but he had been out of ideas for a long time. Its how it goes. I know the Jets want their 2 decade career coach like Barry Trotz but he cant even do that again. Its just not how it works. Coaches have a shelf life. Painful lesson learned, you almost burned the franchise down because you put the coach above the organization.

I have no idea where this is all coming from but feel free to use me as a jumping point - but don't insinuate I have a huge problem with Scheif or have a bee in my pants.
I'm not upset with 55 - I only added thoughts on what might have transpired -

 

[jetsforever]

He's already #6 in the league. The two at the top are disasters. Will he want Vas money? there's no one else close. Needs a Cup to get Vas money. $7.5-8.0m is probably fair if no cup.

View attachment 618349

If Helle wins another Vezina (and maybe even if not) he should be getting at least Vasi money

 

[Adam da bomb]

He's already #6 in the league. The two at the top are disasters. Will he want Vas money? there's no one else close. Needs a Cup to get Vas money. $7.5-8.0m is probably fair if no cup.

View attachment 618349

He is the second best on list with only Vasi better.

 

[SCP Guy]

If Helle wins another Vezina (and maybe even if not) he should be getting at least Vasi money

Yup if he keeps playing like this he is going to get a nice raise …. Won’t hurt that the cap should go up also

 

[Eyeseeing]

Yup I hope Chipman learned his lesson. It's good to have principles but they can't get in the way of results. There is no such thing as a coach for life unless they win multiple cups ala Cooper.

Can’t like this post enough.
Chipman needs to let the people he hired do their jobs without him interfering because of his principles

 

[RabidOne]

I was just thinking to myself, what if Helle keeps up these numbers like .932 % save percentage, and maybe even wins another Vezina. I would then think his market value would be in the $ 10 - 12 million per year range. I have to wonder if the Jets would pony up the money and pay him, or trade him ? or let him go because it's too much money to have tied up in a Goaltender ? What do posters think on this ?

Pay him. Look at how good Jersey is now that they are actually getting goaltending.
Conversely look at how bad the Rangers and the Canucks are now that their goalies have come back down to earth.
I might be under a slightly different opinion if we had the next Helle waiting in the wings, but we don't.
Don't want to go back to the Pavelec days.

 

[bustamente]

The only difference between Vassi and Bucky are that Vassi played in front of a better team and has won cups, they are 1a and 1b atm. Starting ask especially if Helle is Vezina Helle and the Jets make noise in the playing with be 10m when the time comes, and yes it will get ugly. I don't want to think where this team would be without him and glad I don't have to make that decision.

 

[larmex99]

Yup I hope Chipman learned his lesson. It's good to have principles but they can't get in the way of results. There is no such thing as a coach for life unless they win multiple cups ala Cooper.

Principles shouldn’t get in the way of results? Those who think like that are the people I avoid in business at all costs. The coach for life issue is one I agree with on.

 

[surixon]

Can’t like this post enough.
Chipman needs to let the people he hired do their jobs without him interfering because of his principles

Yeah, I refuse to believe a person who's been involved in managing pro hockey for decades like Chevy wasn't aware of the issues and wanted to move on. Even if he didn't necessarily see it in the room he would have still had agents talking to him, player meetings and exit interviews.

 

[Eyeseeing]

Principles shouldn’t get in the way of results? Those who think like that are the people I avoid in business at all costs. The coach for life issue is one I agree with on.

Principles are widely defined
Your principles might not be my principles.
Chipman coach for life was his principle why?
Who knows
Didn’t work out well for him or us

 

[Jets 31]

Man Maurice is back for 1 game and this place gets nasty. Did you guys know the Jets are 16-7-1 and in 1st place in the Central division? Now everyone should be in good moods .

 

[surixon]

Principles shouldn’t get in the way of results? Those who think like that are the people I avoid in business at all costs. The coach for life issue is one I agree with on.

I should have specified the first point. Clearly a number of principles shouldn't be disregarded. I meant Chipman's loyalty principle where he stays overly loyal to people. I think you should treat people fairly and with respect but if you need to move on then you have to make the hard call or let his manager do so. Him staying loyal to Moe even after it was clear he wasn't able to do his job any longer hurt the organization. His principle on this as per his piece in the Athletic last year also contradicted how the rest of the industry acts. If most act a certain way it is likely because acring that way is what is required.

 

[Jets 31]

It'll be interesting to see if Ehlers ever gets that 20 minutes per game that he feels that he deserves, and IF his body can actually hold up playing 20 minutes per game. I firmly believe that he's not one of those guys, and that his game regresses the more minutes he plays.

If the subject of most overrated Jet on HFBoards ever comes up, Ehlers is King.



Enstrom of all people? Did you not watch him play during those playoffs? He wasn't benched soon enough.

Ehlers the most overrated player ?

 

[jetsforever]

Pay him. Look at how good Jersey is now that they are actually getting goaltending.
Conversely look at how bad the Rangers and the Canucks are now that their goalies have come back down to earth.
I might be under a slightly different opinion if we had the next Helle waiting in the wings, but we don't.
Don't want to go back to the Pavelec days.

I'm pretty sure Shesty is still good but yeah having a high-end goalie is huge
Look at Edmonton for example who have been held back for years because of that position, versus say Montreal who have had terrible rosters but a couple playoff runs off Price alone

 

[Jack7222]

There's plenty to dissect in what that one goal in 4 games meant. In his ~14 minutes per game over those 4 games, who was on the ice with him, and who was he matched up against on the other team? Did Vegas score a lot of goals, over those 4 games? It felt like they were playing him - out of loyalty - and doing their best to hide him.

I was bracing myself everytime Enstrom was on the ice during those playoffs. In fairness, I felt "better" about him from game-to-game, but that's not saying much. It's like going from an absolute liability out there (who shouldn't have been on the ice frankly), to not-that-horrible, to less-than-average in a way that I'm still not comfortable (but I can still breathe). Whenever he and Laine were on the ice at the same time, stuck in their own end, it was like giving the other team a 6-on-3 powerplay without having to pull their goalie.

I thought Morrow was a decent pick-up, especially if he's your 6th or 7th guy on defense. He seemed steady to me, like Mike Lalor on the '90s version of the Jets; though not as good as Lalor. I was infinitely more comfortable with Morrow over Enstrom.

This is 5 on 5 regular season league-wide.

Edit: let me amend my post because while Enstrom was basically a god at preventing chances in the regular season, it's true that he didn't fair as well in the playoffs:

So you're not really as wrong as I thought. Cringing with him on the ice might be a bit much though.

 

[Dale53130]

Ehlers the most overrated player ?

On HFBoards, yes.

 

[Adam da bomb]

On HFBoards, yes.

Maybe on Jets hf board, rest of league he is underrated.

 

[surixon]

On HFBoards, yes.

I mean what does most of this board view him as in your opinion. I believe most on here believe he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent poont totals despite being used on the second PP unit and playing less than the other first line players on this team.

I doubt many think he's a big time star player.

 

[Dale53130]

View attachment 618378

Evaluating defensemen isn't easy i guess.

*This is league-wide 5 on 5 numbers from the regular season btw. His playoff numbers weren't as crazy but they certainly weren't bad enough to be "cringing" when he's on the ice...

I was definitely cringing when he was on the ice, and I never felt as though that was an overreaction on my part.

Maybe on Jets hf board, rest of league he is underrated.

Yes, I meant the Jets section of HFBoards.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Yup I hope Chipman learned his lesson. It's good to have principles but they can't get in the way of results. There is no such thing as a coach for life unless they win multiple cups ala Cooper.

Ideally we have a balance of both. We want results, but we don't want them to come at the cost of our principles. Holding on to a coach for too long isn't principled - it's stubborn. Principles - or a lack thereof - lead to the drafting of Logan Mailloux and that Boston rubbish from a few weeks ago.

 

[surixon]

Ideally we have a balance of both. We want results, but we don't want them to come at the cost of our principles. Holding on to a coach for too long isn't principled - it's stubborn. Principles - or a lack thereof - lead to the drafting of Logan Mailloux and that Boston rubbish from a few weeks ago.

As mentioned earlier it was just his loyalty principle.

 

[Dale53130]

I mean what does most of this board view him as in your opinion. I believe most on here believe he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent poont totals despite being used on the second PP unit and playing less than the other first line players on this team.

I doubt many think he's a big time star player.

These points are conflicting.

Yes, many here believe that "he is a high end play driving first line winger that has put up excellent point totals".

But he doesn't put up excellent point totals. If you extrapolate his production over a full season, maybe in '20-'21, yes, but in reality, he can't get to a full season.

He's yet to clear 30 goals. He's yet to clear 65 points. His best season, came in the bubble, so I'd definitely take what he was able to do there with a massive grain of salt. And he's not a two-way player, so his raw stats do matter.

He's a lot of smoke & mirrors, and the culprit is him in the playoffs. 4 goals in 31 games; 2 of which came in 1 game on fresh legs. He's a pretender. Big game, big fade. Lots of flash, not as much substance. He's got great speed, but doesn't use it as effectively as he should. Great plus minus, not such a great defensive player. He's a guy who's found a bunch of analytical sweat spots, so he's absolved from criticism.

The Jets will have to take a step (or two) back to integrate him back into the offense. At which point, almost everyone here will be blamming everyone not named Nikolaj Ehlers.