17-18 Blackhawks 2.0

[Hawkaholic]

Yeah, Leddy really took off when getting to NYI.

Had more TOI than he did here in Chicago, and managed to score a whopping 6 more points than he did here the year before, and equaled his career high that he had with Chicago 2 years previous.

 

[TheDoorDoctor]

Yea I dont want this to turn into a conversation about Leddy too much is all. Just wanted to compare the bottom pairing of today to yesteryears, and Forsling and Leddy are in a similar situations. If Forsling can develop nicely with his confidence (esp. in his own zone) the bottom pairing be quite reliable. Its these question marks about the depth of our team that is going to make or break us next year.

 

[ColdSteel2]

Yeah, Leddy really took off when getting to NYI.

Had more TOI than he did here in Chicago, and managed to score a whopping 6 more points than he did here the year before, and equaled his career high that he had with Chicago 2 years previous.

Fair enough. Still, just could not afford him. He'd have been nice to have these last 2 years, no doubt about it. And that trade was robbery at the time. Should have landed a 1st. We never get that one big piece when we trade guys for futures.

 

[Zippy316]

Quick question.

Just looking at the Darling/Bishop trades, I couldn't help but notice Darling went for a 3rd yet Bishop only went for a 4th. It's a bit puzzling considering Darling was out of conference and Bishop wasn't plus Bishop has a more proven track record.

Made me wonder if the Darling trade was possibly tied into the Kruger/TvR acquisition through Vegas. Has there been any rumors or indication that's true?

 

[Teemu]

Quick question.

Just looking at the Darling/Bishop trades, I couldn't help but notice Darling went for a 3rd yet Bishop only went for a 4th. It's a bit puzzling considering Darling was out of conference and Bishop wasn't plus Bishop has a more proven track record.

Made me wonder if the Darling trade was possibly tied into the Kruger/TvR acquisition through Vegas. Has there been any rumors or indication that's true?

No, after the Darling trade went through, the value of all goaltenders dropped because one less team was looking for one.

 

[LDF]

No, after the Darling trade went through, the value of all goaltenders dropped because one less team was looking for one.

a very good analysis, i would have never put the together.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Yup, struck while the timing was hot and the market value was the highest. Great something for nothing move.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

Fair enough. Still, just could not afford him. He'd have been nice to have these last 2 years, no doubt about it. And that trade was robbery at the time. Should have landed a 1st. We never get that one big piece when we trade guys for futures.

That was a decent trade at the time. Don't let Pokka's lack of development cloud your memory. The Hawks had to move either Oduya or Leddy before the season started and everyone knew it. Bowman was lauded at the time for his asset management. He stole Leddy from Minnesota and got some production for him for a couple seasons before he was moved for another young dman who had upside.

 

[AmericanDream]

That was a decent trade at the time. Don't let Pokka's lack of development cloud your memory. The Hawks had to move either Oduya or Leddy before the season started and everyone knew it. Bowman was lauded at the time for his asset management. He stole Leddy from Minnesota and got some production for him for a couple seasons before he was moved for another young dman who had upside.

I am sorry but as a defender of Bowman that might be by far his biggest mistake - that trade was brutal regardless of Pokka making it or not.

There is no chance in hell he couldn't land a first or more if he actually waited a bit. 24 year old PMD's don't grow on trees, that trade was terrible and we got robbed the second the ink dried.

He did steal Leddy from Minny, but absolutely washed it all away with what I called from day 1 a horrible trade..look at what these young PMD's are getting in the open market, Leddy should have netted a 1st plus and if you couldn't get that you wait and move Bryan Bickell lol!!

 

[BK]

I am sorry but as a defender of Bowman that might be by far his biggest mistake - that trade was brutal regardless of Pokka making it or not.

There is no chance in hell he couldn't land a first or more if he actually waited a bit. 24 year old PMD's don't grow on trees, that trade was terrible and we got robbed the second the ink dried.

He did steal Leddy from Minny, but absolutely washed it all away with what I called from day 1 a horrible trade..look at what these young PMD's are getting in the open market, Leddy should have netted a 1st plus and if you couldn't get that you wait and move Bryan Bickell lol!!

If you trade Oduya over Leddy the next cup does not happen. Leddy was and still is weak defensively and Oduya played a shutdown role. Leddy is really talented but the Hawks could not have afforded him after the season either.

The Bickell deal was just bad.

 

[BobbyJet]

I am sorry but as a defender of Bowman that might be by far his biggest mistake - that trade was brutal regardless of Pokka making it or not.

There is no chance in hell he couldn't land a first or more if he actually waited a bit. 24 year old PMD's don't grow on trees, that trade was terrible and we got robbed the second the ink dried.

He did steal Leddy from Minny, but absolutely washed it all away with what I called from day 1 a horrible trade..look at what these young PMD's are getting in the open market, Leddy should have netted a 1st plus and if you couldn't get that you wait and move Bryan Bickell lol!!

Agreed..... but Leddy was one of the first victims of the K/T deals. Stan needed to save up, and he knew it.

 

[JaegerDice]

I am sorry but as a defender of Bowman that might be by far his biggest mistake - that trade was brutal regardless of Pokka making it or not.

There is no chance in hell he couldn't land a first or more if he actually waited a bit. 24 year old PMD's don't grow on trees, that trade was terrible and we got robbed the second the ink dried.

He did steal Leddy from Minny, but absolutely washed it all away with what I called from day 1 a horrible trade..look at what these young PMD's are getting in the open market, Leddy should have netted a 1st plus and if you couldn't get that you wait and move Bryan Bickell lol!!

They traded Leddy October 4th 2014. You can't wait much longer than that.

It was a win-now move for one last go before the 10.5mil contracts kicked in, and Oduya provided a better chance to win immediately, while Leddy obviously was going to be the better player for a lot longer down the line. We got a cup that season, and Oduya was a big part of it, so hard to complain about that decision.

As far as the return, the Blackhawks were up against the ceiling and had to shed salary before the imminent start of the season. They were over a barrel. Same thing happened to the Bruins with Boychuck, that same off-season.

 

[AmericanDream]

They traded Leddy October 4th 2014. You can't wait much longer than that.

It was a win-now move for one last go before the 10.5mil contracts kicked in, and Oduya provided a better chance to win immediately, while Leddy obviously was going to be the better player for a lot longer down the line. We got a cup that season, and Oduya was a big part of it, so hard to complain about that decision.

As far as the return, the Blackhawks were up against the ceiling and had to shed salary before the imminent start of the season. They were over a barrel. Same thing happened to the Bruins with Boychuck, that same off-season.

again, not buying it.

the return was brutal, he jumped the gun. we had other bodies to move over Leddy and he made the wrong call. I moved forward long ago with it no sense in keep rehashing these things, but blue chip young defensemen like this you do not move - he literally is the one player we desperately need right now but we gave away. I don't agree with the Oduya provided a better chance as that dude was a human turnover machine here for years but had his ass hidden with Hammer...

 

[BobbyJet]

again, not buying it.

the return was brutal, he jumped the gun. we had other bodies to move over Leddy and he made the wrong call. I moved forward long ago with it no sense in keep rehashing these things, but blue chip young defensemen like this you do not move - he literally is the one player we desperately need right now but we gave away. I don't agree with the Oduya provided a better chance as that dude was a human turnover machine here for years but had his ass hidden with Hammer...

I keep agreeing with you on this subject. I said at the time that trading Leddy could be a trade Hawks regretted for years. It isn't quite that yet but Leddy is still young though experienced and Keith/Seabs are not getting any younger, not to mention that Hammer/Soupy are now gone. Hawks D looks pretty weak and inexperienced entering this season.

 

[Kaners PPGs]

again, not buying it.

the return was brutal, he jumped the gun. we had other bodies to move over Leddy and he made the wrong call. I moved forward long ago with it no sense in keep rehashing these things, but blue chip young defensemen like this you do not move - he literally is the one player we desperately need right now but we gave away. I don't agree with the Oduya provided a better chance as that dude was a human turnover machine here for years but had his ass hidden with Hammer...

What are you not buying? Did you forget that summer? Who did you want to move in order to get under the cap? It would have been nice to move Bickell but that wasn't happening without a massive sweetner. The better decision was to hope that Bickell would build back some value the next season. No one knew he had MS.

They won the Cup playing 4 dmen those playoffs one of which was Oduya. That's proof enough that they made the right decision of Oduya over Leddy. And if Leddy was such a blue chip prospect that was so obvious to see, why didn't other teams bid more? Do you think Bowman turned down a better deal for Leddy that summer? The bottom line is that the Hawks were in a win-now mode at the time and they won the Cup. To gnash your teeth over that trade now is ridiculous.

 

[x Tame Impala]

again, not buying it.

the return was brutal, he jumped the gun. we had other bodies to move over Leddy and he made the wrong call. I moved forward long ago with it no sense in keep rehashing these things, but blue chip young defensemen like this you do not move - he literally is the one player we desperately need right now but we gave away. I don't agree with the Oduya provided a better chance as that dude was a human turnover machine here for years but had his ass hidden with Hammer...

Not buying it?

Did you watch the playoffs that year?? The 2015 playoff D corps put on one of the most impressive displays of defense I've seen in my 10 years of watching hockey. Oduya was 110% a huge part of that. Leddy had not at the point, nor has he ever at this point in his career, proven he's capable of handling elite shutdown assignments.

You're way, way, way off base here. A Stanley Cup was won because Oduya was here and Leddy's cap hit wasn't around. What the hell are you talking about?

 

[BK]

Oduya was really bad last year but he was really good in his first stint here. He and Hammer played some of the hardest matchups and did it well. That pairing had a major impact on the Hawks winning the last two cups. Are you actually trying to argue that they didn't and that Oduya was trash in his first stint here? I am just trying to make sure of what you are trying to say.

Leddy being moved instead of Oduya directly resulted in another cup. Long-term it is a move that is not good but for another cup you make that trade 10/10 times. The Hawks robbed the future for the present and it resulted in a cup. Leddy is a very talented player but don't even think that he could have handled the role that Oduya played during the last cup run. He could not handle it then and he still could not handle it now. A really good offensive player who is not that good in the defensive zone.

 

[AmericanDream]

Oduya was really bad last year but he was really good in his first stint here. He and Hammer played some of the hardest matchups and did it well. That pairing had a major impact on the Hawks winning the last two cups. Are you actually trying to argue that they didn't and that Oduya was trash in his first stint here? I am just trying to make sure of what you are trying to say.

Leddy being moved instead of Oduya directly resulted in another cup. Long-term it is a move that is not good but for another cup you make that trade 10/10 times. The Hawks robbed the future for the present and it resulted in a cup. Leddy is a very talented player but don't even think that he could have handled the role that Oduya played during the last cup run. He could not handle it then and he still could not handle it now. A really good offensive player who is not that good in the defensive zone.

Oduya was good for about a month and a half...outside of that I saw nothing but errors and mistakes...but he had Hammer to back him up, so maybe he knew that and took advantage of it. I dont know.

But in all honesty, for the amount of turnovers and mistakes he made, look at his point totals - the guy was simply never above average at anything. He had a few moments of being able to back check and he would catch a player, but outside of that, the guy really didn't offer much to this team overall.

He made more mistakes then Seabrook. He deserved his ice time less than Leddy. I rewatched over and over again so many playoff games of him making terrible outlet passes, blindly sending the puck up the other side only to be retrieved by the opposing team..it literally became a running joke to us.

We did not win Stanley Cups because of Johnny Oduya, he was the right guy with the right partner who saved his ass 10 out of 10 times.

Nick Leddy had a number of flaws, but his youth and skillset should have been held on to which I will call out Bowman as a mistake..I don't bash Stan often but on this instance I certainly will..

If you liked Oduya, that is great, but if you watched more closely and saw why Oduya ever looked good, it had to do with a certain #4...all day, every day.

at this point, who gives a ****, they both are gone..

 

[BK]

Oduya was good for about a month and a half...outside of that I saw nothing but errors and mistakes...but he had Hammer to back him up, so maybe he knew that and took advantage of it. I dont know.

But in all honesty, for the amount of turnovers and mistakes he made, look at his point totals - the guy was simply never above average at anything. He had a few moments of being able to back check and he would catch a player, but outside of that, the guy really didn't offer much to this team overall.

He made more mistakes then Seabrook. He deserved his ice time less than Leddy. I rewatched over and over again so many playoff games of him making terrible outlet passes, blindly sending the puck up the other side only to be retrieved by the opposing team..it literally became a running joke to us.

We did not win Stanley Cups because of Johnny Oduya, he was the right guy with the right partner who saved his ass 10 out of 10 times.

Nick Leddy had a number of flaws, but his youth and skillset should have been held on to which I will call out Bowman as a mistake..I don't bash Stan often but on this instance I certainly will..

If you liked Oduya, that is great, but if you watched more closely and saw why Oduya ever looked good, it had to do with a certain #4...all day, every day.

at this point, who gives a ****, they both are gone..

Statistically speaking you are wrong. The player that lead the team in turnovers in the 14-15 season was actually Hammer then Seabrook then Keith then Oduya. Hammer had 70 turnovers while Oduya had 44. That is not the smallest of gaps. Oduya had 123 blocks while Hammer had 127 blocks. Both Hammer and Oduya were maddening with their missed passes that went for icings. Obviously, neither scored much but that is not shocking for either.

In hockey, it takes two to tango so it is not that Hammer was carrying Oduya at all. They were a really good fit as d partners. Their communication was really impressive if you watched the games closely. You could see this with their zone coverage and transitions. Their stick work and shot blocking greatly impacted the game and how teams played against the Hawks. Again your claim is just not right in regards to Hammer just carrying Oduya. Hammer is better but Oduya was a damn solid number 4 dman.

Leddy until that season was weak on the puck and many times turned away from contact which resulted in possession loss for the team but not a turnover (the NHL needs a better way to track this). Leddy too often was out muscled and beat in his zone. He is a good PMD who is not great in his zone. He still has some of these issues today.

Again the trade was more than acceptable because keeping Oduya and trading Leddy resulted in another cup. Long-term you can call it a loss if you remove the cup but no one should logically do that. Stan robbed future to win in the present and it worked. The trade had to happen because Bickell's deal was bad (due to his MS) and we needed Oduya for the coming season much more than Leddy.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

I was one of the most vocal opponents of trading Leddy. Thought he had top pairing upside. Oduya was up and down as a player and Hammer absolutely did the heavy lifting on that pair but we won in 15 with four nhl defenseman. Swap Oduya for Leddy that year and I don't think we win the cup.

Oduya was a 4-5 guy. Not sure why this is so hotly debated. AD you're painting him as a Rozi level tire fire.

 

[ChiHawks10]

Everyone already addressed it... but I'll just reiterate. If Oduya is not on the team, and Leddy is in 2015, they don't win that Cup. Period. End of story.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Why all this discussion about Leddy? He would have been gone one way or another anyway by now. We won a Cup without him the year he was traded, who cares?

 

[x Tame Impala]

Why all this discussion about Leddy? He would have been gone one way or another anyway by now. We won a Cup without him the year he was traded, who cares?

Well if Stan wasn't so incompetent he would've magically traded someone else away and signed Leddy to cheaper deal

...or something like that

 

[LordKOTL]

Not buying it?

Did you watch the playoffs that year?? The 2015 playoff D corps put on one of the most impressive displays of defense I've seen in my 10 years of watching hockey. Oduya was 110% a huge part of that. Leddy had not at the point, nor has he ever at this point in his career, proven he's capable of handling elite shutdown assignments.

You're way, way, way off base here. A Stanley Cup was won because Oduya was here and Leddy's cap hit wasn't around. What the hell are you talking about?

Fair is fair though--Not a single player on the 'hawks played any defense whatsoever until Darling was pulled in game 6 of the Nashville series--not even Keith.

After that they tightened it down like the anatomy of waterfowl, but before that it was the O and Darling that kept the 'hawks heads above water until game 5.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Yeah that's fair.