Prospect Info: 15th overall — C Dylan Larkin: Larkin signs 3 year entry deal

[jaster]

With the PK, I think it boils down to our goalie and the players are secondary unless you're running some serious skill out there - such as when Z&D routinely killed penalties, or back in the day when we could run Fedorov and Yzerman out there. I don't think we have the horses to say any of the skaters make or break our PK. We need Howard or Mrazek to do it.

In my experience, it's the opposite. The goalie is important, but the skaters are the ones who can have an impact on the number and quality of shots their goalie faces and, if they can force a turnover, clear the puck and kill 25% of the penalty on that play alone. And the coaches are the ones who can instruct them on how to adapt their play to the different style PPs opponents employ. There's a reason skaters get more coaching on the PK than goalies. There's more to it for them. How good a goalie is on the PK is mostly a function of how good he is in general. The same is not true for skaters.

With the top9, yeah, I put Pulkkinen there, and I have room for Larkin and Mantha if they come to camp and earn it. I'd put Jurco into the argument, too, if for no other reason to see if he could take a spot and run with it this year. His shooting percentage can't be south of 5% every year, can it? Helm is a guy I'd have in the top9 if there's room, but he's also one of the guys I bump down if one of the kids comes to camp is ready.

Sure, if enough skilled kids click, it makes sense to move Helm down (or, as I said before, trade him). I just don't see enough of these kids clicking well enough to do that. Even Pulkkinen has a long way to go to be more valuable than Helm in the top-9. That kid is near worthless at ES at this point. If he doesn't make a significant leap in the preseason, he should start the season as a reserve.

I hate how we've allowed waiver eligibility and too many mediocre vets signed to poor/mediocre contracts dictate our decisions in camp every year.

I really do feel like the mediocre vets factor is subsiding. Cleary and Cole are gone, so Weiss is the only one left. I'm still holding out hope that he is traded/bought out this offseason, which would clear all of them out.

 

[WesNichols14]

I really do feel like the mediocre vets factor is subsiding. Cleary and Cole are gone, so Weiss is the only one left. I'm still holding out hope that he is traded/bought out this offseason, which would clear all of them out.

And its not like Weiss is the worst player and shouldn't be in the NHL. He maybe overpayed but when he's given the chance he is a good guy out there. got stuck in the Babcock doghouse, and never got out.

 

[Winger98]

In my experience, it's the opposite. The goalie is important, but the skaters are the ones who can have an impact on the number and quality of shots their goalie faces and, if they can force a turnover, clear the puck and kill 25% of the penalty on that play alone. And the coaches are the ones who can instruct them on how to adapt their play to the different style PPs opponents employ. There's a reason skaters get more coaching on the PK than goalies. There's more to it for them. How good a goalie is on the PK is mostly a function of how good he is in general. The same is not true for skaters.

Sure, if enough skilled kids click, it makes sense to move Helm down (or, as I said before, trade him). I just don't see enough of these kids clicking well enough to do that. Even Pulkkinen has a long way to go to be more valuable than Helm in the top-9. That kid is near worthless at ES at this point. If he doesn't make a significant leap in the preseason, he should start the season as a reserve.

I really do feel like the mediocre vets factor is subsiding. Cleary and Cole are gone, so Weiss is the only one left. I'm still holding out hope that he is traded/bought out this offseason, which would clear all of them out.

The skaters are important, but how many could be coached to execute a system? I think we could sub in any of probably five different guys for Miller and have a PK that is just as effective. But if we sub in a junk goalie (or when Howard falls apart again), our PK will turn into a dumpster fire.

I think we've always agreed more on Helm and the kids than we thought.

And I agree the mediocre vets problem isn't as bad as it once was, but we're still seeing it on the blueline. Babcock kept XO, Jensen, and I think Marchenko late into camp last year, and there was a lot of chatter of him wanting to keep at least one of them on the roster out of camp. There's no reason one of Kindl/Smith/Lashoff couldn't have been dumped immediately to make it happen. I'm a bit of a proponent for having one roster spot up front and one roster spot in the back up for grabs every camp. Between guys looking for camp invites, vets signed for GR, waivers, and our prospects, I don't question our ability to fill those two spots every year.

edit: up front, I do have a longer list than Weiss. I'd add Miller to that, and Andersson. They're not as depressing to see out there as Cleary was the past couple of years, but I wouldn't mind seeing them have to work every camp to keep their jobs.

 

[jaster]

The skaters are important, but how many could be coached to execute a system? I think we could sub in any of probably five different guys for Miller and have a PK that is just as effective. But if we sub in a junk goalie (or when Howard falls apart again), our PK will turn into a dumpster fire.

Define "execute." What I mean is, anyone can be coached to play a certain system. Conversely, no one is good enough to be 100% effective on the PK. So what you have is everyone who kills penalties trying to execute the system, and there are varying levels of success amongst them. As it is, I don't believe any of the names previously mentioned have the ability to PK as well as Miller.

I think we've always agreed more on Helm and the kids than we thought.

And I agree the mediocre vets problem isn't as bad as it once was, but we're still seeing it on the blueline. Babcock kept XO, Jensen, and I think Marchenko late into camp last year, and there was a lot of chatter of him wanting to keep at least one of them on the roster out of camp. There's no reason one of Kindl/Smith/Lashoff couldn't have been dumped immediately to make it happen. I'm a bit of a proponent for having one roster spot up front and one roster spot in the back up for grabs every camp. Between guys looking for camp invites, vets signed for GR, waivers, and our prospects, I don't question our ability to fill those two spots every year.

Kindl had better be gone come September. And if another top-4 dman is acquired, or Zidlicky is somehow brought back (which I'm fine with), Smith should probably be gone as well.

edit: up front, I do have a longer list than Weiss. I'd add Miller to that, and Andersson. They're not as depressing to see out there as Cleary was the past couple of years, but I wouldn't mind seeing them have to work every camp to keep their jobs.

I figured as much. Obviously, I don't agree with Miller being on that list. Andersson maybe. I like Andersson, but he's indeed replaceable. I actually really like the idea of him being one of the two reserve forwards. He's a dependable soldier who you can plug in when injuries strike without batting an eye.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Define "execute." What I mean is, anyone can be coached to play a certain system. Conversely, no one is good enough to be 100% effective on the PK. So what you have is everyone who kills penalties trying to execute the system, and there are varying levels of success amongst them. As it is, I don't believe any of the names previously mentioned have the ability to PK as well as Miller.



Kindl had better be gone come September. And if another top-4 dman is acquired, or Zidlicky is somehow brought back (which I'm fine with), Smith should probably be gone as well.




I figured as much. Obviously, I don't agree with Miller being on that list. Andersson maybe. I like Andersson, but he's indeed replaceable. I actually really like the idea of him being one of the two reserve forwards. He's a dependable soldier who you can plug in when injuries strike without batting an eye.

You'd rather keep Zidlicky over Smith? Yikes.

 

[TheOtherOne]

You'd rather keep Zidlicky over Smith? Yikes.

Meh, I agree. Smith has had long enough and hasn't shown me anything to prove he's worth keeping.

 

[TheMule93]

why is this thread so off topic

 

[ricky0034]

Drew Miller is so overrated by some people,he's just such an underwhelming player and people act as if he's some sort of penalty killing superstar for some reason(i've seen people call him the best penalty killer on the team more than once on this forum)

I see no reason Ferraro couldn't be a clear improvement over Miller by the end of the season if we dumped Miller,he has significantly more offensive ability than Miller does and a history of being one of the best PK guys in the AHL

 

[jaster]

You'd rather keep Zidlicky over Smith? Yikes.

In a vacuum, I like Smith better. But we need offense/PP ability from the back end. It's why we traded for Zidlicky in the first place. Smith doesn't provide that. He's a serviceable bottom-pairing guy who can rush the puck and play physical, and who I don't mind having on the team too much, but he was brutal down the stretch this season and made some pretty dumb plays in the playoffs (playing the puck while on the bench? ). Furthermore, we have kids knocking on the door who can be just as effective as Smith in similar roles.

 

[jaster]

Drew Miller is so overrated by some people,he's just such an underwhelming player and people act as if he's some sort of penalty killing superstar for some reason(i've seen people call him the best penalty killer on the team more than once on this forum)

I see no reason Ferraro couldn't be a clear improvement over Miller by the end of the season if we dumped Miller,he has significantly more offensive ability than Miller does and a history of being one of the best PK guys in the AHL

Miller is defensively sound and the #2 PKer on the team. That's what he is, and he has proven it. Hyperbole isn't going to change that.

Meanwhile, defensively, Ferraro is still lost in the NHL. He's weak and gets pushed off the puck too easily. He's a decent crash-and-banger at this point, but has shown nothing to suggest he should be trusted more than that.

 

[Bench]

Miller is defensively sound and the #2 PKer on the team. That's what he is, and he has proven it. Hyperbole isn't going to change that.

Meanwhile, defensively, Ferraro is still lost in the NHL. He's weak and gets pushed off the puck too easily. He's a decent crash-and-banger at this point, but has shown nothing to suggest he should be trusted more than that.

It's sort of a strange argument when the Wings "grind line" was probably the strongest line consistently throughout the Tampa series. And surprisingly, provided as much offense as any line other than Datsyuk's.

If there's one thing I liked in that series, it was them.

 

[cupforwings09]

why is this thread so off topic

I agree. Not a lot about Larkin.

This guy looks like the real deal. I see him getting a chance in Detroit next year, though probably not to start.

 

[jaster]

I agree. Not a lot about Larkin.

This guy looks like the real deal. I see him getting a chance in Detroit next year, though probably not to start.

But where will Larkin stack up on the PK??

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But where will Larkin stack up on the PK??

About 1.6 Subbans.

 

[Bench]

But where will Larkin stack up on the PK??

If he can help the PK, there's a realistic chance he'd have a spot on the 3rd line, is what I'm thinking.

Z-D-Abdelkader
Tatar - Sheahan - Nyquist
Helm - Larkin - Pulkkinen
Star Wars

Jurco, Weiss (traded or scratched), and Franzen (still think he'll LTIR) are your odd men out. Or Jurco could fold in for Lando. If Larkin can step into an NHL role in the next year, it gets harder to find a spot for Helm, which is the guy the Wings should be dangling for some defensive help. You won't get a Myers type for Helm, but he's a nice foundation for a "hockey trade" that could help both sides.

 

[detredWINgs]

He's making it look easy out there. Incredible recognition from him on his goal tonight. He saw that he had the space and time and got great positioning for the goal.

Maybe its because his role has changed since being on the USNTDP, but I don't see the "Helm with better hands" comparison at all. Larkin can play that way, but he's much more cerebral and composed than Helm is.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

He's making it look easy out there. Incredible recognition from him on his goal tonight. He saw that he had the space and time and got great positioning for the goal.

Maybe its because his role has changed since being on the USNTDP, but I don't see the "Helm with better hands" comparison at all. Larkin can play that way, but he's much more cerebral and composed than Helm is.

Yep, the kid is dangerous everytime he has the puck. Created tons of chances.

Cerebral is a great way to describe his game. Head is always up and he's very good at finding the soft spots in the defense. He loves circling from the half wall and sneaking to the slot/middle of the ice on the powerplay and at even strength.

He just keeps getting better and better. I'm trying to hold back my expectations with this kid but its kinda hard... the sky is the limit, literally.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

He just keeps getting better and better. I'm trying to hold back my expectations with this kid but its kinda hard... the sky is the limit, literally.

Dylan Larkin - Pilot.

 

[Bench]

Dylan Larkin - Pilot.

Police sketch of the suspect.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Police sketch of the suspect.

"It's not who we are underneath, it's what we do that defines us."

Larkin Begins - 2005.

 

[Bench]

I had no idea there were actual comic pages to these silly things. Ha, oh boy.

I think we need to photoshop Larkin's face on that guy now.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I had no idea there were actual comic pages to these silly things. Ha, oh boy.

I think we need to photoshop Larkin's face on that guy now.

They did whole issues for each guardian sold in one big Guardian Project book.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

In a vacuum, I like Smith better. But we need offense/PP ability from the back end. It's why we traded for Zidlicky in the first place. Smith doesn't provide that. He's a serviceable bottom-pairing guy who can rush the puck and play physical, and who I don't mind having on the team too much, but he was brutal down the stretch this season and made some pretty dumb plays in the playoffs (playing the puck while on the bench? ). Furthermore, we have kids knocking on the door who can be just as effective as Smith in similar roles.

who wasnt brutal down the strech of March? He was one of the best defenders in the playoffs, Zidlicky was one of the worst.

 

[Henkka]

Larkin looks so dominating, that I'm not sure what our other prospects are anymore.

 

[Anchor Town*]

Miller's PKing ability has to be one of the most overrated things on this board.