GDT: 12/2/2017 | Wings @ Canadiens | 7PM ET | FSD

[SpookyTsuki]

And their 2nd line center?

Even their 3rd line center

 

[crashnburnluder]

I don't think blash is the problem personally but I also don't think he is the solution, I wouldn't mind a coach coming in who is good with kids and help raise our next wave, we aren't there now talent wise and what the organization needs to realize (mainly Holland) that it's okay to rebuild right and in modern day NHL you can't be good 100% of the time

 

[Reddwit]

Vegas being guaranteed a top 3 pick says hello.

Not sure what you’re getting at. First of all, I’m not referring to teams who draft first every year but lerennially find their way into the better results of the draft lottery. Second, Vegas has never been guaranteed a top 3 pick - they were guaranteed a #3 draft lottery spot. Third, that doesn’t continue over to 2018. Vegas at this rate will probably not even be a lottery team.

 

[Reddwit]

If we're actually wanting to talk about being "fair", then Detroit should go without a single good draft pick for another 10-15 years. This franchise was stepping on the necks of every other team in the league for a long time.

Having said that, I'd still rather have a 20% shot at Dahlin than spend even another second pretending the current roster is going anywhere.

EDIT: And at least Arizona is up 2-0 after 20 minutes.

1. There is a gargantuan difference between a %20 chance at Dahlin and “pretending the current roster goes anywhere.” Hello, red herring. No one is setting up that dichotomy.

2. How did the Wings “step on the necks” of every other team in the league? By being one of the best? By investing like no one else outside of New York County? I’m not sure I follow. Is there some pro sports ethics hornbook I can get my hands on? Because I’d love to know about the rules of justice this league operates under. Last I checked, it was a business that exists in the entertainment field. And last I checked the Wings were a god damn model franchise for a quarter of a century. Few handouts. Proper investments. Great marketing. Great recruiting. Entertaining product. Now that they’ve made mistakes or their leadership has become outmoded through sheer aging and outlasting all of their contemporaries, they should be punished for a decade or more? Huh? This organization, as misguided as it may have become, can’t be said to have done anything other than attempt to produce a successful product that would produce financially for its parent firm. It has towed the company line. But you think teams that have lost or, at best, been mediocre damn near in perpetuity for a decade (or more) somehow deserve to (again) be awarded the league’s freshest assets...? So they can...what? Make nothing more than spoiled lemon juice out of lemons?

If there is any sense of equity AND fiscal soundmindedness in this league, it would rig the draft lottery to award the Illitch family the 1OA in a year where their record actually makes that realistic. THAT is what would be fair - Fair because the Illitches produced a commercial NHL juggernaut for years in a city that was drawing comparisons to Baghdad. Fair because it created the catchiest marketing slogan in the entire sport. Fair because it paid what it took to create entertainment and it paid what it took to compensate key components for living in what was one of the country’s most depressing (and depressed) urban centers. The list goes on.

Look - I hate what this team has become. I hate where we are. I get a sick enjoyment out of watching this team burn. But from all angles, if ANY team deserves to be gifted a reset button, it’s Detroit. Almost every other team has had that luxury or close to it in the past 20-30 years while accomplishing much less.

 

[Sentinel]

Who was their top center?

Forwards and coaching staff are incomparable... This is why they won the Cup. We can't even make playoffs.

 

[Giacomo]

where ever this team falls in the draft the focus should be a goalie and defense. Price was a 5th round pick

 

[Giacomo]

what I meant to say was that Price was picked 5th over all first round

 

[jkutswings]

1. There is a gargantuan difference between a %20 chance at Dahlin and “pretending the current roster goes anywhere.” Hello, red herring. No one is setting up that dichotomy.

2. How did the Wings “step on the necks” of every other team in the league? By being one of the best? By investing like no one else outside of New York County? I’m not sure I follow. Is there some pro sports ethics hornbook I can get my hands on? Because I’d love to know about the rules of justice this league operates under. Last I checked, it was a business that exists in the entertainment field. And last I checked the Wings were a god damn model franchise for a quarter of a century. Few handouts. Proper investments. Great marketing. Great recruiting. Entertaining product. Now that they’ve made mistakes or their leadership has become outmoded through sheer aging and outlasting all of their contemporaries, they should be punished for a decade or more? Huh? This organization, as misguided as it may have become, can’t be said to have done anything other than attempt to produce a successful product that would produce financially for its parent firm. It has towed the company line. But you think teams that have lost or, at best, been mediocre damn near in perpetuity for a decade (or more) somehow deserve to (again) be awarded the league’s freshest assets...? So they can...what? Make nothing more than spoiled lemon juice out of lemons?

If there is any sense of equity AND fiscal soundmindedness in this league, it would rig the draft lottery to award the Illitch family the 1OA in a year where their record actually makes that realistic. THAT is what would be fair - Fair because the Illitches produced a commercial NHL juggernaut for years in a city that was drawing comparisons to Baghdad. Fair because it created the catchiest marketing slogan in the entire sport. Fair because it paid what it took to create entertainment and it paid what it took to compensate key components for living in what was one of the country’s most depressing (and depressed) urban centers. The list goes on.

Look - I hate what this team has become. I hate where we are. I get a sick enjoyment out of watching this team burn. But from all angles, if ANY team deserves to be gifted a reset button, it’s Detroit. Almost every other team has had that luxury or close to it in the past 20-30 years while accomplishing much less.

I didn't mean that the Wings cheated their way to championships. I meant that they were at the mountaintop for a crazy amount of time, so zero people outside of their fanbase feel bad that they're suffering at the moment.

If the NHL is supposedly based on amazing parity, then there's a long list of teams that deserve a championship before the Wings get yet another one.

I don't happen to believe the parity exists nearly to the extent that the league claims, because teams like Pittsburgh keep on winning, while teams like Arizona keep on losing. But I wasn't making an argument for what I personally think; I was extrapolating the concept of parity, to say that Detroit has had their day in the sun, and won't 'deserve a reset button' for quite awhile yet.

Personally, I think that 'parity' is code for, 'make dumb decisions, and get away with it'. So if the Wings finally start assembling more shrewd moves than embarrassing mistakes, they should ascend up the power rankings accordingly. But they certainly don't 'deserve' any fortunate breaks along the way, after having dominated the landscape for two decades. They can either make their own luck, or keep struggling with the consequences of their own actions.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

I don't really enjoy seeing Kronwall and Z being made fools of by Helene's insinuations and word-play. If the captains aren't allowed to speak an honest evaluation of the players then all PG interviews should cease. It's a mockery.

There is one person, one only who deserves heat from the media and that's KEN HOLLAND.

The criticism around these parts used to be that the media refuses to ask the hard questions; now that a member of the media has done so you're hoppin mad because they didn't ask the questions to the right person. I think criticism like this filters upward, if the players and coaches are being held responsible by the media then that points to problems at the top and soon enough the spotlight will reach Holland.

As for Kronwall and Z: your sympathy is very sweet, but they're gonna be all right. They get paid, they wear letters on their sweaters - I think the 10-1 blowout should make them feel the fool far more than a reporter's post game questions. The captains should be allowed to speak an honest evaluation - according to you and according to many of us that would be to tell Helene that their team is simply not good and that the responsibility lies with Ken Holland. The players are allowed to speak his name you know, it's not solely on the media. I'm glad she's asking tough questions and I'd love for a player to have the balls to answer honestly and point a finger up the chain of command rather than duck the question with the standard locker room responses.

 

[Redder Winger]

Like I said earlier, she was whistling by the side of the road and providing "analysis" that gave Ken Holland cover for every dumb move he made since 2009.

Now that the Red Wings are getting flushed down the toilet she's "getting tough? with her questions.

Sorry, but there's absolutely nothing that can be done.

What "trade" is going to improve this team?
What Grand Rapids callup is going to have a significant impact on this team?

About the only moves anyone can make are 1) Fire the coach and 2) Fire the GM.
But those won't make the Red Wings a playoff team.
They might bring some structure and sense to the Wings game plan and give us a fighting shot at a good rebuild, though.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Like I said earlier, she was whistling by the side of the road and providing "analysis" that gave Ken Holland cover for every dumb move he made since 2009.

Now that the Red Wings are getting flushed down the toilet she's "getting tough? with her questions.

Sorry, but there's absolutely nothing that can be done.

What "trade" is going to improve this team?
What Grand Rapids callup is going to have a significant impact on this team?

About the only moves anyone can make are 1) Fire the coach and 2) Fire the GM.
But those won't make the Red Wings a playoff team.
They might bring some structure and sense to the Wings game plan and give us a fighting shot at a good rebuild, though.

And I've already responded to your thoughts on her asking the tough questions now as opposed to earlier. Sure, it sucks that none of our beat writers had the guts to shine the spotlight on the horrid state of this team a year or longer ago. But now that one of them actually is I see it as a good thing, get the dialogue rolling, get the casual fan seeing what the folks around here have been seeing and pointing out for years.

What can be done? There's plenty that can be done, starting with accountability and hiring/firing the proper people, getting the fan base more focused on the flaws in the management and maybe emboldening our other writers to ask a few tough questions themselves.
Is a coach firing, an AHL call-up or a single trade going to change the big picture? Of course not, whoever suggested that? I'm not sure why you even posted these things in response to suggestions no one has made.

 

[Sparty]

what I meant to say was that Price was picked 5th over all first round

Look at this list...

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/ranking-every-goalie-selected-in-the-first-round-since-2000/

If you could redaft these guys, how many would you take in the first round? Probably the top four and the jury's still out on Vasilevskiy.

Goalie drafting is a crapshoot. Not sure how you can improve your chances unless you're going to take a bunch of them.

 

[Redder Winger]

And I've already responded to your thoughts on her asking the tough questions now as opposed to earlier. Sure, it sucks that none of our beat writers had the guts to shine the spotlight on the horrid state of this team a year or longer ago. But now that one of them actually is I see it as a good thing, get the dialogue rolling, get the casual fan seeing what the folks around here have been seeing and pointing out for years.

It's cowardice.
It's like the media treating Trump like a legit candidate throughout the Republican primary and then acting offended by his offensiveness in the general.
You allowed this shit to go unchecked and get momentum. And now that this boulder has crashed through the village, you want answers?
LOL.

What can be done? There's plenty that can be done, starting with accountability and hiring/firing the proper people, getting the fan base more focused on the flaws in the management and maybe emboldening our other writers to ask a few tough questions themselves.
Is a coach firing, an AHL call-up or a single trade going to change the big picture? Of course not, whoever suggested that? I'm not sure why you even posted these things in response to suggestions no one has made.

It's going to happen regardless of what the media does at this point.
Ilitch has an investment to protect.

 

[Giacomo]

Look at this list...

https://www.thesportster.com/hockey/ranking-every-goalie-selected-in-the-first-round-since-2000/

If you could redaft these guys, how many would you take in the first round? Probably the top four and the jury's still out on Vasilevskiy.

Goalie drafting is a crapshoot. Not sure how you can improve your chances unless you're going to take a bunch of them.

every player is a crapshoot. there is no gurantee you get a good player

 

[Nut Upstrom]

It's cowardice.
It's like the media treating Trump like a legit candidate throughout the Republican primary and then acting offended by his offensiveness in the general.
You allowed this **** to go unchecked and get momentum. And now that this boulder has crashed through the village, you want answers?
LOL.




It's going to happen regardless of what the media does at this point.
Ilitch has an investment to protect.

Yes it's cowardice. I've never suggested otherwise, I've never defended the media for being soft and tip-toeing around this team's issues for so long. Mike Ilitch was a very powerful and influential man in the Detroit area, what writer wants to step over the line first and draw his ire? Agreed, lots of cowards who should have spoken out honestly much sooner - I feel I have said this several times already. Not sure why you're hammering a point that is pretty much 100% agreed upon around these parts.

 

[golffuul]

Not sure what you’re getting at. First of all, I’m not referring to teams who draft first every year but lerennially find their way into the better results of the draft lottery. Second, Vegas has never been guaranteed a top 3 pick - they were guaranteed a #3 draft lottery spot. Third, that doesn’t continue over to 2018. Vegas at this rate will probably not even be a lottery team.

Vegas is guaranteed no lower than a 3rd overall pick for the first two years of their franchise, according to the expansion rules, IIRC.

 

[Ezekial]

Vegas is guaranteed no lower than a 3rd overall pick for the first two years of their franchise, according to the expansion rules, IIRC.

Crazy that they picked six, then.

They had the same odds of getting the first pick as the #3 from the bottom team, they do not get the same treatment next season.

 

[HIFE]

The criticism around these parts used to be that the media refuses to ask the hard questions; now that a member of the media has done so you're hoppin mad because they didn't ask the questions to the right person. I think criticism like this filters upward, if the players and coaches are being held responsible by the media then that points to problems at the top and soon enough the spotlight will reach Holland.

As for Kronwall and Z: your sympathy is very sweet, but they're gonna be all right. They get paid, they wear letters on their sweaters - I think the 10-1 blowout should make them feel the fool far more than a reporter's post game questions. The captains should be allowed to speak an honest evaluation - according to you and according to many of us that would be to tell Helene that their team is simply not good and that the responsibility lies with Ken Holland. The players are allowed to speak his name you know, it's not solely on the media. I'm glad she's asking tough questions and I'd love for a player to have the balls to answer honestly and point a finger up the chain of command rather than duck the question with the standard locker room responses.

Mickey is right, this is a sensitive age!

It took me a minute to grasp but I think I see your point: the pot is starting to stir and no part of the team should be immune from taking some heat. Sometimes to build up you have to tear it down first. I still strongly believe criticism of the Wings should start at the top and work its way down if that's what's happening.

Your statements in the 2nd paragraph are preposterous. So Z and Kronwall are going to honestly express that the team isn't talented enough... then proceed to call out Holland/management? Sure...

Helene St. James is an unimaginative parasite. People can be impressed with her "tough questions", I personally can't read or listen to a word she says. Her "hot takes" on Detroit are months if not years behind other analysts and legitimate insiders. HSJ is so desperate, I wonder where goes if DFP cuts her off? What's disgusting to me is watching her allowed to back-stab who I consider almost a hero and modern day warrior, Kronwall. He may not be a first responder, etc. but he's given his life to the city and helped bring Wings fans a Stanley Cup. What excellence does Helene provide again?

Cowardice is the absolute perfect word to describe the exchange I watched Saturday night. After losses I'm just gonna have to turn that shit off.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Mickey is right, this is a sensitive age!

It took me a minute to grasp but I think I see your point: the pot is starting to stir and no part of the team should be immune from taking some heat. Sometimes to build up you have to tear it down first. I still strongly believe criticism of the Wings should start at the top and work its way down if that's what's happening.

Your statements in the 2nd paragraph are preposterous. So Z and Kronwall are going to honestly express that the team isn't talented enough... then proceed to call out Holland/management? Sure...

Helene St. James is an unimaginative parasite. People can be impressed with her "tough questions", I personally can't read or listen to a word she says. Her "hot takes" on Detroit are months if not years behind other analysts and legitimate insiders. HSJ is so desperate, I wonder where goes if DFP cuts her off? What's disgusting to me is watching her allowed to back-stab who I consider almost a hero and modern day warrior, Kronwall. He may not be a first responder, etc. but he's given his life to the city and helped bring Wings fans a Stanley Cup. What excellence does Helene provide again?

Cowardice is the absolute perfect word to describe the exchange I watched Saturday night. After losses I'm just gonna have to turn that **** off.

Sensitive age is right, you're upset because a reporter asked your hockey hero a tough question that wasn't really that tough.
I'm aware she's not that good. I'm not here to praise her for all-star journalism.
It's just a shame we're not living in a more ancient time when she could be handled properly, yea?

 

[Redder Winger]

Sensitive age is right, you're upset because a reporter asked your hockey hero a tough question that wasn't really that tough.
I'm aware she's not that good. I'm not here to praise her for all-star journalism.
It's just a shame we're not living in a more ancient time when she could be handled properly, yea?

But, why do you automatically assume he wouldn't have said the same thing about a guy reporter?
In the history of journalism, I'd be willing to wager that more male reporters have taken a fat lip than female reporters.

 

[lomekian]

Sorry...did someone just suggest HSJ was a journalist?

Any irritation about her questioning or non-questioning pales into insignificance when compared to her years of total lack of interesting insight, clearly having random personal bias towards and against players and the fact that her mangling of the English Language is painful to read. Also she has one of the most annoying voices I've ever heard when conducting interviews. I reckon 3/4 of the posters on here could come up with more interesting content.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

But, why do you automatically assume he wouldn't have said the same thing about a guy reporter?
In the history of journalism, I'd be willing to wager that more male reporters have taken a fat lip than female reporters.

'

He made reference to a time when it would have been acceptable to give a woman a fat lip for showing impertinence to a man, as if he were disappointed that those days are no longer.
In the history of journalism I am sure that no reporter, man or woman, received a fat lip for a few harmless yet to the point questions. The fact that these questions should elicit a violent response is laughable. Direct that violent response to a woman and it goes beyond laughable.

And geez Lomekain, I'm note sure what to tell you. I don't read the Free Press or wherever Helene writes her stuff and I usually click off the station during the post-game interviews as you get the same canned answers and typically softball questions. If you're not a fan it's not hard to look the other way.

 

[jets2020champs]

Jets fan coming in peace. Jets has a few Michigan boys in the lineup. I’m wondering what everyone’s thoughts are going into tonight’s game against the Jets. Sorry I couldn’t find a GDT.

 

[TheMule93]

Jets fan coming in peace. Jets has a few Michigan boys in the lineup. I’m wondering what everyone’s thoughts are going into tonight’s game against the Jets. Sorry I couldn’t find a GDT.

I hope and think that we will lose big

 

[Redder Winger]

'

He made reference to a time when it would have been acceptable to give a woman a fat lip for showing impertinence to a man, as if he were disappointed that those days are no longer.
In the history of journalism I am sure that no reporter, man or woman, received a fat lip for a few harmless yet to the point questions. The fact that these questions should elicit a violent response is laughable. Direct that violent response to a woman and it goes beyond laughable.

And geez Lomekain, I'm note sure what to tell you. I don't read the Free Press or wherever Helene writes her stuff and I usually click off the station during the post-game interviews as you get the same canned answers and typically softball questions. If you're not a fan it's not hard to look the other way.

How do you know he wasn't referencing a time when violence in general was more acceptable?
I don't know. Big assumption you made.

In the history of journalism, lots of reporters have been slapped, pushed, shoved, punched or shot. Whether or not a question is harmless depends on the subject's mood.