Prospect Info: 100 OA - RW Alexander Rykov (Chelmet VHL)

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Why?

The whole point of this strategy is that replacement level players who play a strong possession/hustle game are relatively easy to acquire, and players with unique skill sets are relatively hard to acquire.

Because this org excels at getting better than replacement level play out of replacement level players, it stands to reason that none of the drafting focus should be spent on acquiring common assets, and all of the drafting focus should be spent on acquiring rare assets.

The other thing to note that I don't think gets talked about as much is that because the FO isn't as afraid as other organizations of letting worse teams pay crazy money to their good UFAs, they are willing to target and retain premium bottom-6 assets like Martinook and Fast via UFA. You don't see anything like a Toronto problem here, where they have to swing on often-not-ready ELCs or vet min-to-$1M one year swings on cast-off guys. This is another factor behind being able to draft BPA/skill guys in the draft.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I think there are a couple of things that make guys like Martinook and Fast “premium bottom six”.

1. Jordan Staal. In his career, a slew of so-so guys have looked better than they are due to playing with him. Kennedy, Cooke, Nestrasil, Nordstrom, Dwyer, McGinn, Foegele, Martinook, even Fast(to a lesser extent), etc.

2. Canes system. If you work hard, know how to forecheck, and can play decent defense, there’s a bottom six role for you.

Martinook was on waivers last year. Credit to him for turning it around, but I’m not convinced that a bunch of other players could have had the same success.

 

[LakeLivin]

I think there are a couple of things that make guys like Martinook and Fast “premium bottom six”.

1. Jordan Staal. In his career, a slew of so-so guys have looked better than they are due to playing with him. Kennedy, Cooke, Nestrasil, Nordstrom, Dwyer, McGinn, Foegele, Martinook, even Fast(to a lesser extent), etc.

2. Canes system. If you work hard, know how to forecheck, and can play decent defense, there’s a bottom six role for you.

Martinook was on waivers last year. Credit to him for turning it around, but I’m not convinced that a bunch of other players could have had the same success.

Martinook was on waivers but I've got to believe that wasn't the "typical" waivers assignment. At that time the Canes knew the odds were really small of anyone claiming him at a $1.8m salary. I'd bet they talked to Martinook beforehand and let him know exactly what was going to happen and why. Wouldn't surprise me if they even got his ok before making that move as he seems like an ultimate "team player".

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Martinook and Fast have always had far better individual defensive skillsets than the likes of Foegele or McGinn, and that tended to bear out in the metrics over the years. Even on worse teams like the Coyotes or the Rangers, a lot of analytically-minded people found both to be undervalued defensive players.

Now, Foegele is, comparatively-speaking, a very good defensive player compared to his teammates in Edmonton, but he isn't on Martinook's level.

 

[bleedgreen]

Why?

The whole point of this strategy is that replacement level players who play a strong possession/hustle game are relatively easy to acquire, and players with unique skill sets are relatively hard to acquire.

Because this org excels at getting better than replacement level play out of replacement level players, it stands to reason that none of the drafting focus should be spent on acquiring common assets, and all of the drafting focus should be spent on acquiring rare assets.

I get your side, I just disagree. I think the cost of replacement players can fluctuate as the market changes, they’re cheap right now but the market is tight and will likely change as the cap does. I think it’s always better to replace internally than externally but that is purely personal preference on my part. I think there’s always more fan buy in vs a free agent who comes and goes. A young player pigeon holed as a fourth liner grows and develops into the core. The blind “oh we can always just buy that later” just doesn’t resonate with me very much. I’d rather grow internally. You can still use other picks on chances. Just looking for balance personally.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Martinook was on waivers but I've got to believe that wasn't the "typical" waivers assignment. At that time the Canes knew the odds were really small of anyone claiming him at a $1.8m salary. I'd bet they talked to Martinook beforehand and let him know exactly what was going to happen and why. Wouldn't surprise me if they even got his ok before making that move as he seems like an ultimate "team player".

Maybe partly, but I don't think it's completely that. Here's why:

1) A "typical waivers assignment" is so you can send a guy down to the AHL and/or buy him out (ie..get him off your cap). The Canes waived him in hopes that someone would take his cap hit, even if they through it's unlikely anyone would claim him. Once he cleared, they never sent him down or bought him out. They kept him on the roster so there was zero cap / salary benefit to waiving him. None.

The only reason for Carolina to waive him was a hope that someone would take him. At that point, they already knew they'd be cap compliant by putting Gardiner and Pacioretty on LTIR. His salary was backloaded as well which was more incentive to move him.

2) Secondly, when it happened, Martinook came out and stated it was a surprise even if it was couched as a "paper transaction" in the end.

Regardless, you put a guy on waivers, it means you are willing to lose him, regardless of whether or not you think the risk is low.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Martinook and Fast have always had far better individual defensive skillsets than the likes of Foegele or McGinn, and that tended to bear out in the metrics over the years. Even on worse teams like the Coyotes or the Rangers, a lot of analytically-minded people found both to be undervalued defensive players.

Now, Foegele is, comparatively-speaking, a very good defensive player compared to his teammates in Edmonton, but he isn't on Martinook's level.

Sure, but 2 things. First, when Foegele and McGinn were here, Jordan was playing a slightly different role as a 2C (pre-Trocheck). McGinn and Foegele had only 35-50 games with Trocheck as a 2C.

Secondly, my point is that I think there are other players that are cheaper than could fill the role Martinook and Fast fill. Maybe not quite as well, but close.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Martinook last year and defended him frequently, so this isn't a knock on him, nor fast. They played well and were worth their salary. I'm just saying that a reason why they get viewed as "Premium" is partly due to playing with Staal and the system the Canes play.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Sure, but 2 things. First, when Foegele and McGinn were here, Jordan was playing a slightly different role as a 2C (pre-Trocheck). McGinn and Foegele had only 35-50 games with Trocheck as a 2C.

Secondly, my point is that I think there are other players that are cheaper than could fill the role Martinook and Fast fill. Maybe not quite as well, but close.

Don't get me wrong, I liked Martinook last year and defended him frequently, so this isn't a knock on him, nor fast. They played well and were worth their salary. I'm just saying that a reason why they get viewed as "Premium" is partly due to playing with Staal and the system the Canes play.

I believe that us putting Martinook on waivers last year and adding a league minimum contract before the season started, saved us enough cap to put Patches on LTIR after that the season started. Which meant that all of his LTIRd salary was available to us.

LTIR in offseason | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Martinook’s back load contract made that possible. Canes gambled that a team wouldn’t be interested in paying Martinook 4.5 million over 2 seasons. Obviously they gambled correctly and maximized their LTIR pool.

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

This is a Rykov thread guys.... btw he's looking really good in the V so far this year

 

[WreckingCrew]

I believe that us putting Martinook on waivers last year and adding a league minimum contract before the season started, saved us enough cap to put Patches on LTIR after that the season started. Which meant that all of his LTIRd salary was available to us.

LTIR in offseason | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Martinook’s back load contract made that possible. Canes gambled that a team wouldn’t be interested in paying Martinook 4.5 million over 2 seasons. Obviously they gambled correctly and maximized their LTIR pool.

Yea that was my understanding, we put him on waivers as a paper transaction because we KNEW nobody would claim him at that cap and we needed to do some maneuvering to be cap compliant. Granted we probably wouldn't have been devastated if someone had claimed him, but that's not why we did it. Nor was it his play, it was 100% cap compliance

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I believe that us putting Martinook on waivers last year and adding a league minimum contract before the season started, saved us enough cap to put Patches on LTIR after that the season started. Which meant that all of his LTIRd salary was available to us.

LTIR in offseason | Puckpedia

puckpedia.com

Martinook’s back load contract made that possible. Canes gambled that a team wouldn’t be interested in paying Martinook 4.5 million over 2 seasons. Obviously they gambled correctly and maximized their LTIR pool.

While on waivers, doesn’t Martinook’s contract still count against the cap? I thought it was until/unless someone claims him or he’s sent down, he’s still on the books. Did they then send him down as a paper transaction?

EDIT: it does look like they sent him down on paper, so NVM.

So I see where it makes some sense cap wise (although I'm not sure why with Gardiner and Patches going on LTIR, but the Canes brass know their stuff more than me.)

Either way, they were willing to take a chance at losing him, even if they thought it was slim.

 

[LakeLivin]

This is a Rykov thread guys.... btw he's looking really good in the V so far this year

And the reason you think we might stay on topic in this thread compared to every other thread is . . .? The real question is why the thread hasn't turned to food yet.

 

[LostInaLostWorld]

Did someone mention food?

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

While on waivers, doesn’t Martinook’s contract still count against the cap? I thought it was until/unless someone claims him or he’s sent down, he’s still on the books.

Secondly, teams put guys on LTIR day 1 to be compliant all the time, don’t they? And get credit for the full amount?(asking as I’m not sure)

Thirdly, we also had Gardiner to go on LTiR so we had plenty of space, no?

Yes, he was assigned to the AHL squad at the roster deadline saving 1.1 in cap.

Its weird cap gymnastics but the goal for any team is to be close to the cap ceiling as possible before starting LTIR. That way they minimize the amount of dollars lost.

So in our case:

While I have no idea how they handled the math. I assume they utilized off-season LTIR with Gardiner after waiving Martinook and adding Cdh, Kochetkov, and Rees. The math worked out to only lose 185k or so (im trying to remember the amount).

Then placing Patches on LTIR allowed his 7 million to be utilized later. The alternative would have meant more money lost instead of 185k.

Its hard to get cap numbers from a specific moment in the season to really break it down.

This is an article on it

Hurricanes place Jordan Martinook on waivers

Martinook scored an NHL career-high 15 goals in his first season with the Canes and signed a two-year contract with the team in 2019.

theathletic.com

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Unsustainable]

 

[Stickpucker]

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Did someone mention food?

What is that on the steak? Not chimchurri sauce?