03-06 centres vs 13-16 centres (draft)

[Juicy Pop]

Except Giroux was a centre for like 10 years

He still can be too it’s just that Philly has the luxury of Couturier, and now Hayes, to create space for him.

 

[wetcoast]

Like I said, the majority of his production in his career has been at wing.

And no, there's more to being a centre than just taking the face-offs. If you've ever played hockey you'd know there's a huge difference.

Leon has played pretty much as much center as Giroux has in their respective careers ratio wise.

What position do you think Sean Couturier plays?

Both are hybrids they can play center and wing.

If you want to include Giroux in the first group then you need to include Leon in the 2nd group.

Sure there is more to playing center than just face offs but face offs are part of what centers do, one doesn't need to play hockey to realize that.

 

[Snippit]

Leon has played pretty much as much center as Giroux has in their respective careers ratio wise.

What position do you think Sean Couturier plays?

Both are hybrids they can play center and wing.

If you want to include Giroux in the first group then you need to include Leon in the 2nd group.

Sure there is more to playing center than just face offs but face offs are part of what centers do, one doesn't need to play hockey to realize that.

After the face off he immediately starts playing the game like a winger though. If Draisaitl is on McDavid’s line he by definition is not the centre on that line. It’s a very weak argument, especially considering that the face off is just one aspect of playing the position.

Giroux has like 9 seasons under his belt with years of elite production where he strictly played as a centre. At the moment he’s considered a winger by most but this poll is meant for people to consider the version of Giroux that played centre.

 

[Fourier]

After the face off he immediately starts playing the game like a winger though. If Draisaitl is on McDavid’s line he by definition is not the centre on that line. It’s a very weak argument, especially considering that the face off is just one aspect of playing the position.

Giroux has like 9 seasons under his belt with years of elite production where he strictly played as a centre. At the moment he’s considered a winger by most but this poll is meant for people to consider the version of Giroux that played centre.

For what it is worth your assessment is not actually true though. When Leon and McDavid play together either could be taking the center duties depending upon the circumstances. In fact it might be easy to argue that McDavid is the "winger" on the line just as often as Draisaitl.

 

[Sky04]

These results will be a blowout solely because people don't understand the significant impact of PP time on production.

Is this because Matthews has a career high 73 points?

 

[Dekes For Days]

Is this because Matthews has a career high 73 points?

Where did I say anything about Matthews? Take your uninformed comments elsewhere.

 

[wetcoast]

After the face off he immediately starts playing the game like a winger though. If Draisaitl is on McDavid’s line he by definition is not the centre on that line. It’s a very weak argument, especially considering that the face off is just one aspect of playing the position.

Giroux has like 9 seasons under his belt with years of elite production where he strictly played as a centre. At the moment he’s considered a winger by most but this poll is meant for people to consider the version of Giroux that played centre.

Except this isn't true.

16-17 is hardly "elite" with a line of 82-14-44-58.

Also in 4 of those years he received all star votes at both center and winger positions so the strictly playing center part is questionable.

For what it is worth your assessment is not actually true though. When Leon and McDavid play together either could be taking the center duties depending upon the circumstances. In fact it might be easy to argue that McDavid is the "winger" on the line just as often as Draisaitl.

Pretty much this, also Leon strictly did play center for the Oilers when Connor was out of the lineup.

He is every bit a center as Giroux is.

 

[Snippit]

For what it is worth your assessment is not actually true though. When Leon and McDavid play together either could be taking the center duties depending upon the circumstances. In fact it might be easy to argue that McDavid is the "winger" on the line just as often as Draisaitl.

What? I think you misunderstood my post. I never said that one of them exclusively takes the draws. My point was that regardless of who takes the draws McDavid is actually the one playing the centre position.

 

[Snippit]

Except this isn't true.

16-17 is hardly "elite" with a line of 82-14-44-58.

Also in 4 of those years he received all star votes at both center and winger positions so the strictly playing center part is questionable.



Pretty much this, also Leon strictly did play center for the Oilers when Connor was out of the lineup.

He is every bit a center as Giroux is.

If you want to argue that Giroux wasn’t an elite centre that’s something entirely different (I think you’ll find many don’t agree with you).

But he played centre for a very long time and only more recently has been a winger.

Draisaitl is for the most part on McDavid’s wing and gets the majority of his production as a winger.

It should tell you something that last year both HF and NHL.com listed Drai among their top 10 wingers last year not centres

 

[wetcoast]

If you want to argue that Giroux wasn’t an elite centre that’s something entirely different (I think you’ll find many don’t agree with you).

You stated that Giroux had

Giroux has like 9 seasons under his belt with years of elite production where he strictly played as a centre. At the moment he’s considered a winger by most but this poll is meant for people to consider the version of Giroux that played centre.

The 16-17 season is his 9th best season, his 8th best is a line of 78-22-45-67, that's hardly elite is it?

But he played centre for a very long time and only more recently has been a winger.

He has taken faceoffs for a very long time and ahs played winger enough to receive votes for the post season all star awards as early as 10-11 and 12-13

Draisaitl is for the most part on McDavid’s wing and gets the majority of his production as a winger.

He also takes faceoffs and does play center.

It should tell you something that last year both HF and NHL.com listed Drai among their top 10 wingers last year not centres

If you watch both giroux and Leon over their careers it's pretty easy to say that both players have played center and wing and it's hard to tell what exact position they play.

It's also pretty clear that Tippet is using Leon and connor to win games as the Oilers top 3 forwards are all centers and they have a winger problem.

 

[Snippit]

You stated that Giroux had



The 16-17 season is his 9th best season, his 8th best is a line of 78-22-45-67, that's hardly elite is it?



He has taken faceoffs for a very long time and ahs played winger enough to receive votes for the post season all star awards as early as 10-11 and 12-13



He also takes faceoffs and does play center.



If you watch both giroux and Leon over their careers it's pretty easy to say that both players have played center and wing and it's hard to tell what exact position they play.

It's also pretty clear that Tippet is using Leon and connor to win games as the Oilers top 3 forwards are all centers and they have a winger problem.

Okay so at least 9 years of predominantly playing centre, several of which were elite. Regardless he was a centre, and considered by many a franchise 1C. He did play some wing too but good luck trying to argue that he was seen more of as a winger than centre prior to 17-18.

You keep bringing up face-offs as an argument that that makes a player a C. It really does not. If Draisaitl is on McDavid's line, then he is the winger on that line.

Draisaitl at this point in time is best described as a winger, because he plays there for a majority of his ice time and has gotten the majority of his production there. The same cannot be said of Giroux from 08-09 to 16-17.

 

[wetcoast]

Okay so at least 9 years of predominantly playing centre, several of which were elite. Regardless he was a centre, and considered by many a franchise 1C. He did play some wing too but good luck trying to argue that he was seen more of as a winger than centre prior to 17-18.

You keep bringing up face-offs as an argument that that makes a player a C. It really does not. If Draisaitl is on McDavid's line, then he is the winger on that line.

Draisaitl at this point in time is best described as a winger, because he plays there for a majority of his ice time and has gotten the majority of his production there. The same cannot be said of Giroux from 08-09 to 16-17.

Okay we are going to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[Future GOAT]

While 13-16 has the individually best player of all these players, the 03-06 group as a whole is better over all by a significant margin.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

The only way Eric Staal gets into the HHOF is if he buys a ticket.

There's serious talk of Marleau getting into the HoF. Was Marleau a better player than Staal over the course of their careers? I'd say Staal had more elite seasons than him. The one thing Marleau *does* have, and why I mentioned Staal has to do it, is longevity and milestone totals.

 

[wetcoast]

There's serious talk of Marleau getting into the HoF. Was Marleau a better player than Staal over the course of their careers? I'd say Staal had more elite seasons than him. The one thing Marleau *does* have, and why I mentioned Staal has to do it, is longevity and milestone totals.

I used to think that Marleau had a case, especially as the bar for wingers is quite low but neither player is under serious consideration for the HHOF, or at least they shouldn't be.

If the HHOF committee had any transparency they would be locks....to not make it.

Put another way a guy like Markus Naslund probably has a better case and I don't see him making it in anytime soon either.

 

[Fourier]

What? I think you misunderstood my post. I never said that one of them exclusively takes the draws. My point was that regardless of who takes the draws McDavid is actually the one playing the centre position.

What do you mean by playing the center position??? I was not referring to draws. I was referring to what happens after the draws. If you watch the two together they basically share roles depending on who gets to where first. But I don't really care if he is included in this poll so I'll juts leave it at that.

 

[Ryan Michaels]

Why do people get so worked up over this Drai bring a center thing? He's not and that's fine, he's one of the best players in the league, how is that not enough?

 

[nowhereman]

While 13-16 has the individually best player of all these players, the 03-06 group as a whole is better over all by a significant margin.

Not so sure about that. Crosby is a top 5-10 player of all time. McDavid has a ways to go before I'd say he's better than Sid.

 

[StoneHands]

I think it will be a blowout because the 13-16 players still have a ton of their careers to play out yet.

Still too early to tell really.

Also Draisaitl is every bit of a center as Giroux is and should be on the 13-16 list ahead of Larkin.

What? Giroux played the first 9 seasons of his career as a center. What is this obsession with saying Drai is a center? He plays on a line with McDavid and while they may switch back and forth throughout play, I don't see anyone calling McDavid a winger. Nobody is trying to say Giroux is a center when he's playing with Couts because it's irrelevant. Giroux played the vast majority of his career at center, trying to make it seem like this is the same situation is hilarious.

 

[bobholly39]

A lot of stud centres were drafted from 2013-2016, but how do they stack up against the previous decade?

03-06:

Crosby
Malkin
Toews
Staal
Bergeron
Getzlaf
Kopitar
Giroux
Stastny

13-16:

McDavid
Mackinnon
Barkov
Eichel
Matthews
Point
Larkin
Barzal
Aho

McDavid ~ Crosby. Similar tier - Mcdavid might one day pass Crosby - but regardless let's cancel them out

Malkin - better than anyone here. No one will touch him, he's on his own tier.

Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar
Getzlaf/Giroux
Staal/Stasty

I think McKinnon, Matthews, Eichel, Barkov could all 4 make the Toews/Bergeron/Kopitar tier - in fact they all have potential to even surpass those guys, so be at the top of the tier.
Aho/Point/Larkin could easily reach the Getzlaf/Giroux tier - maybe on the lower end even touch the tier above.

Of course - this is all potential/ceiling, and "best case scenario" for the young guys. It's very possible that 3-4 of these guys never even touch Staal career-wise.

I voted the 03-06 centers, mostly because of Malkin. But I think it's very plausible that 10-12 years from now, the younger guys come close and even surpass them. Lots of great upside there

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Crosby>mcdavid
Malkin>mackinnion
The rest follows

 

[wintersej]

After the face off he immediately starts playing the game like a winger though. If Draisaitl is on McDavid’s line he by definition is not the centre on that line. It’s a very weak argument, especially considering that the face off is just one aspect of playing the position.

Giroux has like 9 seasons under his belt with years of elite production where he strictly played as a centre. At the moment he’s considered a winger by most but this poll is meant for people to consider the version of Giroux that played centre.

That is a made up fact.

 

[Bounces R Way]

Little unfair to judge 13-16 based on just a couple seasons but this is 03-06 until proven otherwise.

 

[b in vancouver]

Again - outside of McDavid being amazing and winning a lot of awards I don't really see how this new crop has the chance to catch them.
E. Staal, Getzlaf, Crosby, Malkin, Toews all had Stanley Cup rings as major parts of their teams by their age. Bergeron, Kopitar, Krejci, D. Brown, J. Carter, M. Richards, were all still 25 or so which takes you to the older guys age. The only two Cup winners that weren't led by one of those centres since they were drafted are Detroit and St. Louis this past spring - but they were up against three of them - Bergeron, Krejci and Backes and two of them in the other in Crosby and Malkin. Until these young kids have anywhere near that level of success - and they're never going to because pure numbers tell you they can't all win over the next decade - it's pretty much fait compli.

Not to say this young crop isn't fantastic but the '03 to '06 centres simply dominated the NHL. and is much deeper as I mentioned earlier there's another five number 1 centres that weren't mentioned. It was pretty special.

 

[Appleyard]

Except Giroux was a centre for like 10 years

And was top 4 2x in Hart voting while playing that position fulltime.

For those wondering, having watched Giroux his whole career:

2008-09: RW/C (~45% of games at C)
2009-10: C (~15% of games at RW)
2010-17: C exclusively
2017-present: LW (with maybe ~10 games at C)

My guess therefore is:

~625 games at C
~165 games at LW
~40 games at RW