Post-Game Talk: Ça sent la coupe, habs/Price win 3-1

[DCHabitant]

There's nothing subjective about it. A coach can be measured on more than just his record. That's a fact. His position that we can only measure a coach by his record is factually incorrect.

I've never said this. I've said we've depended on him far too much and that we'd never make it without his stellar play.

I've explicitly said that no player does it all by himself but we are dependent on him to a far greater extent than other contenders rely on any one single player.

Yes Habs rely on Price. As a top 5 pick, they should. But that doesn't mean that the team's lousy without him as many suggest. Suppose the Habs had drafted Kopitar instead of Price, and we had an average goaltender in Price's place--say Halak. Would the Habs be a bottom dweller? A bubble team?

Price is an integral part of the team, and the Habs play the way they do because they have Price. Take away any team's best player...

 

[Team_Spirit]

what have we won since MT's back ?

I'm on the wagon but : 2 division titles

 

[Fish on The Sand]

Carey Price is part of the team and part of the system. Again, indissociable.

He is the system. Show me another team that has won the cup while relying on their goaltender as much as we do.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Yes Habs rely on Price. As a top 5 pick, they should. But that doesn't mean that the team's lousy without him as many suggest. Suppose the Habs had drafted Kopitar instead of Price, and we had an average goaltender in Price's place--say Halak. Would the Habs be a bottom dweller? A bubble team?

Price is an integral part of the team, and the Habs play the way they do because they have Price. Take away any team's best player...

I don't see how playing badly because we have Price makes much sense. We don't generate shots and give up a ton. If we had an offensive system that generated shots and gave up a lot then I might agree with you but we don't. We're just flat out outplayed most of the time.

Plug in an average goalie and we give up around 35 more goals... that's a huge number man. Take away any team's best player and it will hurt but without Price we'd very likely miss the playoffs the way we've played.

 

[Rapala]

Yes, yes. I believe what makes a team a "winning" team is winning a lot (aka, the majority) of its games.

Also in other news, water is wet.

You seem to skip over the obvious as best you can.
A winning team actually wins Championships.
A team with a winning record is just that.
People flock to sports for one reason they want to be entertained.
They understand that only one team reaches the pinnacle but they want to be entertained none the less.
I spent hundreds and hundreds of dollars going to the Bell Center last year and was often less than entertained.
My entertainment dollars were screaming for a refund more than once.
So don't try to tell me and my dollars that simply winning a game is enough because it isn't.

 

[Fish on The Sand]

I don't see how playing badly because we have Price makes much sense. We don't generate shots and give up a ton. If we had an offensive system that generated shots and gave up a lot then I might agree with you but we don't. We're just flat out outplayed most of the time.

Plug in an average goalie and we give up around 35 more goals... that's a huge number man. Take away any team's best player and it will hurt but without Price we'd very likely miss the playoffs the way we've played.

Having the best goaltender in the world should be all the more reason to open things up too. There's nothing wrong with our best player being our goaltender, but we aren't taking full advantage of it.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

I've never said this. I've said we've depended on him far too much and that we'd never make it without his stellar play.

I've explicitly said that no player does it all by himself but we are dependent on him to a far greater extent than other contenders rely on any one single player.

Price is the system ????

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Price is the system ????

We get outplayed and then hope like hell for Price to save the day. Like I said, we rely on him to a ridiculous extent and we wouldn't make the playoffs without his stellar play. That doesn't mean he's 100% of the team, it just means that our system sucks.

Having the best goaltender in the world should be all the more reason to open things up too. There's nothing wrong with our best player being our goaltender, but we aren't taking full advantage of it.

Exactly. We've got a very mobile blueline. We should let them carry the play as this would generate offense. If we get caught we've got Price to back us up.

 

[la25ecoupe]

We get outplayed and then hope like hell for Price to save the day. Like I said, we rely on him to a ridiculous extent and we wouldn't make the playoffs without his stellar play. That doesn't mean he's 100% of the team, it just means that our system sucks.

Exactly. We've got a very mobile blueline. We should let them carry the play as this would generate offense. If we get caught we've got Price to back us up.

I wonder how much leeway Beaulieu is having pinching like crazy.. Subban was held back pretty much by the coaches..

 

[googlymoogly]

So Tremblay is suggesting DSP starts fighting Komakov while the latter does nothing? 5 minutes and match misconduct. That would have been a great idea.

Komarov wouldn't have dropped the gloves, he nevers does.

Ryan White would of pounded Komarov then Therrien would of benched him for it. Still wish we had him as he was perfect 4th liner. I'd rather White than Mitchell.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Subban was held back pretty much by the coaches..

yes of course Subban was held back.... I mean really?

12-13 season: 38 pts in 42 games Norris winner
14-15 season: 60 pts in 82 games Norris nomination

Since Therrien came in, Subban had 26 points in 34 playoff games.

 

[Rapala]

Ryan White would of pounded Komarov then Therrien would of benched him for it. Still wish we had him as he was perfect 4th liner. I'd rather White than Mitchell.

His days were done the minute he sent Therrien ass over tea kettle in practice.

 

[googlymoogly]

His days were done the minute he sent Therrien ass over tea kettle in practice.

That will always be fun to watch.

 

[Runner77]

That will always be fun to watch.

 

[digmor crusher]

He is the system. Show me another team that has won the cup while relying on their goaltender as much as we do.

See Patrick Roy.

 

[digmor crusher]

We get outplayed and then hope like hell for Price to save the day. Like I said, we rely on him to a ridiculous extent and we wouldn't make the playoffs without his stellar play. That doesn't mean he's 100% of the team, it just means that our system sucks.

Exactly. We've got a very mobile blueline. We should let them carry the play as this would generate offense. If we get caught we've got Price to back us up.

It means that Price's stellar stats are equally just as much a result of his play and how the team plays in front of him, a goalie cannot have an elite season without a good team in front of him, his stats relate directly to how the team performed, there is no denying this, its common knowledge. Look at Pavelac, a .908 career average, last year Maurice implemented a defensive system, all of a sudden its a .920 save %, the two are directly related.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

It means that Price's stellar stats are equally just as much a result of his play and how the team plays in front of him, a goalie cannot have an elite season without a good team in front of him, his stats relate directly to how the team performed, there is no denying this, its common knowledge. Look at Pavelac, a .908 career average, last year Maurice implemented a defensive system, all of a sudden its a .920 save %, the two are directly related.

Goalies can have stellar seasons on bad teams. It happens all the time and it's happened with us on more than one occasion.

 

[durojean]

He is the system. Show me another team that has won the cup while relying on their goaltender as much as we do.

Theodore also stood on his head and won the hart and the Vezina under Therrien.

I know Price is really really good but maybe just maybe Therrien's system is one that also makes the goalie look good.

Even Fleury looked like a Vezina contender under Therrien and look at him now.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

See Patrick Roy.

True and there's a couple of exemple of cup winning team that had stellar performance from their goalie all series long and were a big part of the success. Cam Ward comes to mind when he won the Conn Smythe in 2006, Bill Ranford in 1990, Bernard Parent twice in a row in the 70's.

But all these teams, including the 86 and 93 Habs, all have one thing in common: they had enough offensive talent. The current Habs don't have enough offensive talent, but we're in the right direction.

 

[Bryson]

See Patrick Roy.

Patrick Roy was good but that team could score. Damphousse scored 97 points, 23p in 20 games in playoffs. Kirk Muller 94p, Brian Bellows 88p, Stephan Lebeau 80p, Mike Keane 60p.

Current habs team highest point getter is Pacioretty with 67 points.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Patrick Roy was good but that team could score. Damphousse scored 97 points, 23p in 20 games in playoffs. Kirk Muller 94p, Brian Bellows 88p, Stephan Lebeau 80p, Mike Keane 60p.

Current habs team highest point getter is Pacioretty with 67 points.

Totally different league though.

For the record, Max was 21st in scoring last year. Vinny was 23rd in scoring in '93. This team has scoring talent and I'd say Max is better offensively than anyone on that '93 team from a pure skill perspective. Overall, our forwards may not stack up to that '93 team but our D is better. In both cases you're looking at best in class goaltending. This team is about as good as that one was - on paper anyway. Our problem is that we play a poor system.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

Patrick Roy was good but that team could score. Damphousse scored 97 points, 23p in 20 games in playoffs. Kirk Muller 94p, Brian Bellows 88p, Stephan Lebeau 80p, Mike Keane 60p.

Current habs team highest point getter is Pacioretty with 67 points.

Exactly you need enough offense to win the cup, even if you have a Conn Smythe in net.

And regarding Pacio this is only his regular season production, his playoff ratio is 0.56 pts per game.

Plekanec is another player that never produced enough in the playoffs.

Galch had 4 pts in 12 games, Gallagher 5 pts in 12 games, DD 3 pts in 11 games.... they all need to step up, this is 5 forwards from our top 6.

We're not there yet.

 

[Mr Jackpot]

And again, when you have Price in net, you dont need top superstars forwards, you just need enough offense.

To know how much offense is needed to win the cup, we can look at the last 5 or 10 last cup winners and look at their top scoring players that year, it's super easy to do:

14-15 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000352015.html
13-14 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000402014.html
12-13 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000352013.html
11-12 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000402012.html
10-11 http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0000322011.html

 

[Fish on The Sand]

See Patrick Roy.

That's probably pretty close, although I'd say we lean heavier on Price than we did Roy. The fact you had to go back 22 years to find an example though says everything you need to know about how effective that strategy is.

 

[ECWHSWI]

I'm on the wagon but : 2 division titles

division titles... you mean, conference title right ?