Zuccarello: Being Loyal Is Nonsense

[Webster]

It had to have been very strategic to keep him ice cold, getting 1/3 of practice reps, giving Georgiev that b2b in Min/CBJ (he won both games) and then throwing him out there like a lamb for slaughter against the scorching hot Flyers on a Sunday afternoon.

Of course he got lit up and gave up 3 goals in the first 5 minutes.

Well this is exactly what Zuccarello calls lack of respect. The Rangers keep Hank out for a long time, then puts him on the ice rusty against top teams. Yes this kind of treatment is just awful, and it makes people think the Rangers have turned into a low class organization, just trying to get rid of Lundqvist.

Right now both Zucc and Hank are back in Scandinavia, only a 4 hrs drive from each other. I'm sure they talk a lot, and Zucc knows what's going on.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

It had to have been very strategic to keep him ice cold, getting 1/3 of practice reps, giving Georgiev that b2b in Min/CBJ (he won both games) and then throwing him out there like a lamb for slaughter against the scorching hot Flyers on a Sunday afternoon.

Of course he got lit up and gave up 3 goals in the first 5 minutes.

People will mention that Georgiyev has better stats, but their play over the course of this season has been pretty similar. It's been that way for a few seasons now. Perception has shifted that Georgiyev has outplayed him because a HOF goalie is supposed to be considerably better than an undrafted 24 year old, but there's been a negligible difference between their play the last few seasons.

The main difference in their stats this season comes from what you mention. Hank has not been given good opportunities since Shestyorkin has been promoted, and he's had a few games where he didn't have much of a chance to put in a good performance. It was bound to be that way for at least one goalie, if we didn't trade Georgiyev. I'd rather have Georgiyev for the next five years, in a vacuum. But this situation isn't in a vacuum, and the team didn't have to decide that the plan was to keep Georgiyev as the back up, make Hank third string and then get rid of him in the offseason. They could've decided to trade Georgiyev.

 

[JT Kreider]

People will mention that Georgiyev has better stats, but their play over the course of this season has been pretty similar. It's been that way for a few seasons now. Perception has shifted that Georgiyev has outplayed him because a HOF goalie is supposed to be considerably better than an undrafted 24 year old, but there's been a negligible difference between their play the last few seasons.

The main difference in their stats this season comes from what you mention. Hank has not been given good opportunities since Shestyorkin has been promoted, and he's had a few games where he didn't have much of a chance to put in a good performance. It was bound to be that way for at least one goalie, if we didn't trade Georgiyev. I'd rather have Georgiyev for the next five years, in a vacuum. But this situation isn't in a vacuum, and the team didn't have to decide that the plan was to keep Georgiyev as the back up, make Hank third string and then get rid of him in the offseason. They could've decided to trade Georgiyev.

Easy to say "they could have traded Georgiev". Goalies are usually undervalued on the trade markets and there isn't exactly an abundance of teams around the league that need a goalie.

Name a team that 1.) Doesnt have a starter they're committed to long term 2.) Doesnt have a top young goalie in the pipeline 3.) Is in position to waste future assets on a goalie.

You'll find that list to be very limited, if not non-existent.

Trading Georgiev away for an underwhelming return for Lundqvist's sake would have been the worst outcome.

What happens next year when Georgiev goes on to become one of the best goalies in the league? All so Lundqvist could come back for one more mostly pointless season? Taking up all that cap space that is the difference between keeping Strome and/or Fast?

Loyalty to Lundqvist is flat out bad business and makes the Rangers a worse team.

 

[TGWL]

Zucc is an emotional guy and obviously upset I think he and Lundqvist both love NY more than the actually playing for the NYR at this point. They're close friends so we don't know what Lundqvist tells him. Perhaps Lundqvist feels he's not being treated fairly? No idea. That's not really important though.

I think the thought of going back to NY and playing against the club he wanted to stay at hurts, which is what he meant by choosing the Wild because they only play NYR, once. I don't think he meant it as a disrespect that he hates NYR and the organization now.

I don't know what Dallas was offering him, or they were even offering him a contract, but it sounds like term was far more important to him than cash. Zucc's play drops off a cliff when he gets real emotional. He'd be better off accepting everything and going back to playing hockey without that ruining his game.

Regarding loyalty. Those days are gone where it's expected. Players want to get paid and get the best deals possible. Rarely you'll see players ignore that.

 

[Cygnusx1018]

I feel bad for Lundqvist, he doesn't deserve to go out this way. And I'm an Islanders fan saying this

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Easy to say "they could have traded Georgiev". Goalies are usually undervalued on the trade markets and there isn't exactly an abundance of teams around the league that need a goalie.

Name a team that 1.) Doesnt have a starter they're committed to long term 2.) Have a top young goalie in the pipeline 3.) Is in position to waste future assets on a goalie.

You'll find that list to be very limited, if not non-existent.

Trading Georgiev away for an underwhelming return for Lundqvist's sake would have been the worst outcome.

What happens next year when Georgiev goes on to become one of the best goalies in the league? All so Lundqvist could come back for one more mostly pointless season? Taking up all that cap space that is the difference between keeping Strome and/or Fast?

Teams that could use a goalie now or could've done so months ago: Wings, Senators, Leafs, Canes, Hawks, Avs, Flames, Oilers, Sharks

I named nine teams that could've had a need. It's not hard to imagine that if we valued Georgiyev properly, we would've been able to get a similar return for him that we got for Talbot and Raanta. Yes, if you are asking for a 1st, you might not be able to find a taker. Rarely do goalies go for a 1st. Usually, it's someone with more value than Georgiyev. I'm not sure why I should believe he should go for more than Raanta and Talbot went for, but thats the position the Rangers are taking. It's the first time I'm starting to question Allaire. I think he's become too attached to a back up that was a nice find and development project he made a few years ago. I don't believe this is coming from management. I think they deferred to him on the goalie decision.

I don't believe a decision should be made for Hank's sake. The decision should be made for the team's sake. Thats why I'd keep Hank around instead. I don't see how we gain much from keeping a back up to play 25-30 games a season that'll be making 4M per season. There's no guarantee he gets any better. He's a bad starter/good back up caliber of player right now. Look back to the trouble we had to eventually trade middling players like Vesey and Namestnikov after they got RFA deals. If this is as good as Georgiyev will get, how easy will it be to get rid of him in two years? We'll need the cap space eventually. Do we want a 4M back up in a few years? For some negotiations, there's minimal gain and bigger loss from taking such a hard stance. Yes, Georgiyev could turn into a top 20 or so goalie in the league.

Then what? He's never going to be the starter here and split time. He's only ever going to be a back up and trade chip. Is it worth the risk that maybe we get a 1st in two years instead of a 2nd+ now without taking the risk that he has minimal value after another few years? You can't keep every player around, and especially when you have a cap crunch coming, its an easy decision to not pay his RFA number. Hank can stay another season. Then he agrees to take a minimum salary for the betterment of the team or we find someone else to be the back up on a minimum salary. I'm not very worried about who we'll plug in there. I'm worried about a very unimportant position for us in the upcoming years taking up too much cap space, and causing us to have to get rid of one of our better complimentary players in a few years.

 

[Cyclones21]

Are there any Tampa Bay Lightning fans reading this? I am curious, Steve Yzerman traded Marty St. Louis after initially leaving him off the Team Canada roster?

As a Rangers fan, I can look at them without the rose colored glasses. They have made moves I would criticize. How they handled Zuccarello and how they are handling Lundqvist is nothing they should be criticized for. There is a cap, the Rangers used cap space to buy out Girardi and Shattenkirk. If they keep these guys at the expense of youth, they are criticized. Now I am reading that they don't honor their contracts?

I think they are handling a rebuild and a Ranger legend in Lundqvist as best they can.

 

[The S5]

Well this is exactly what Zuccarello calls lack of respect. The Rangers keep Hank out for a long time, then puts him on the ice rusty against top teams. Yes this kind of treatment is just awful, and it makes people think the Rangers have turned into a low class organization, just trying to get rid of Lundqvist.

Right now both Zucc and Hank are back in Scandinavia, only a 4 hrs drive from each other. I'm sure they talk a lot, and Zucc knows what's going on.

The Rangers were loyal to Hank by paying is bloated contract to term. They owe him nothing more.
They offered him the option of exploring trades, but he declined. Now, he is third on the depth chart. What are the Rangers to do? Play an inferior player for old times sake?
Hank is a very wealthy guy who lives a great life in NYC. No tears should be shed.

 

[Channelcat]

Loyalty absolutely does exist within good companies.

 

[Absolut]

What did loyalty to Chicago get Panarin? A one way ticket to Columbus. Players need to take care of their own interests first, unfortunately. Such is the world of pro sports.

 

[Absolut]

I feel bad for Lundqvist, he doesn't deserve to go out this way. And I'm an Islanders fan saying this

It's been a rough transition for him, no doubt. For me personally, it's a little painful. Shesterkin is just too good. But not the way I wanted Lundqvist to go out.

 

[JKG33]

I have 0 sympathy for Lundqvist here. He's been loyal to the Rangers, sure. But lets not pretend he's done them any favors with his contract either. He's always been very well paid. And now here he is, $8.5m cap hit for the 3rd best goalie on the team. He refuses to get traded (not that anyone would want that awful cap hit for what he brings anyway), and the Rangers have no reason to play him when they have 2 better, younger goalies. Maybe if he didn't care so much about that precious NYC lifestyle he'd still be playing somewhere.

 

[Absolut]

Easy to say "they could have traded Georgiev". Goalies are usually undervalued on the trade markets and there isn't exactly an abundance of teams around the league that need a goalie.

They don't WANT to trade Georgieve, period. He is a great backup, and has a perfect personality for the role. And having another Russian-speaking goalie on the roster provides a huge benefit, for obvious reasons. Shesterkin's English is ok, but he can use some help.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

They don't WANT to trade Georgieve, period. He is a great backup, and has a perfect personality for the role. And having another Russian-speaking goalie on the roster provides a huge benefit, for obvious reasons. Shesterkin's English is ok, but he can use some help.

I don’t know how you seriously think Georgiyev helps Shestyorkin. Georgiyev seems seriously bothered by Shestyorkin’s presence. He’s been asked about him all season, and said that he’s going to outplay all the other options in goal. He had a very arrogant attitude, refusing to initially acknowledge that Shestyorkin wasn’t some unproven guy in the AHL. Watch the interviews and you’ll see what I’m saying.

Now he sees that he can’t outplay Shestyorkin because he’s simply not as good. He might not say anything dumb in the media, but I don’t get the sense it’s a particularly warm situation. Georgiyev flat out seems jealous that he was skipped over for the starting spot. On the other hand, Lundqvist is Shestyorkin’s idol. I think some overvalue the importance of that, but there are plenty of Russian teammates. I don’t think having Georgiyev as Shestyorkin’s back up is a comfortable situation for either.

 

[JT Kreider]

I don’t know how you seriously think Georgiyev helps Shestyorkin. Georgiyev seems seriously bothered by Shestyorkin’s presence. He’s been asked about him all season, and said that he’s going to outplay all the other options in goal. He had a very arrogant attitude, refusing to initially acknowledge that Shestyorkin wasn’t some unproven guy in the AHL. Watch the interviews and you’ll see what I’m saying.

Now he sees that he can’t outplay Shestyorkin because he’s simply not as good. He might not say anything dumb in the media, but I don’t get the sense it’s a particularly warm situation. Georgiyev flat out seems jealous that he was skipped over for the starting spot. On the other hand, Lundqvist is Shestyorkin’s idol. I think some overvalue the importance of that, but there are plenty of Russian teammates. I don’t think having Georgiyev as Shestyorkin’s back up is a comfortable situation for either.

This is total speculation on your part lol and completely made up. The post you were replying to was also speculating on Igor-giev's relationship, so unless you have an inside source in the Rangers locker room this is even more of a giant reach.

 

[BOS358]

Regarding loyalty. Those days are gone where it's expected. Players want to get paid and get the best deals possible. Rarely you'll see players ignore that.

This. And it's the GM's job to build a winning team. Don't perform? Find a new home.

There's no loyalty in professional sports. It's a business. Expecting it to be anything else is foolish.

 

[JT Kreider]

This. And it's the GM's job to build a winning team. Don't perform? Find a new home.

There's no loyalty in professional sports. It's a business. Expecting it to be anything else is foolish.

For sure. I feel like the Tavares/Islanders/Toronto mess has been one of the most popular topics on this board the last two years and Islander fans got ripped to shreds whenever they brought up "loyalty".

What's next Zucc is going to put out a video tribute "Dear Jeff..."

 

[Fataldogg]

They don't WANT to trade Georgieve, period. He is a great backup, and has a perfect personality for the role. And having another Russian-speaking goalie on the roster provides a huge benefit, for obvious reasons. Shesterkin's English is ok, but he can use some help.

If you were Georgiev, and you thought you were good enough to be a starter, why would you settle for career back up behind Shesterkin?

If Georgiev is genuinely as good as fans have him touted to be [I personally think he is wildly inconsistent] then it would be a bad career choice to sign long term with the Rangers.

Trade him to another team to give him a shot as starter, Shesterkin takes the starting role, and Lundqvist is the primary back up. No three goalie rotation. Literally, everyone wins in that situation.

There were teams interested in Georgiev. If Shesterkin didnt get into the accident, and if his health was not uncertain, I'd be willing to bet there was a fair chance Georgiev was dealt.

 

[HSF]

Loyalty in any career is pointless go for opportunity, work culture and money

 

[Legionnaire]

Loyalty in any career is pointless go for opportunity, work culture and money

So are periods, apparently.

Zucc is both right and wrong. If you're looking out for yourself, he is correct. However, if one is working toward a higher goal he is dead wrong and there is no place for that thought.

 

[JKG33]

I don’t know how you seriously think Georgiyev helps Shestyorkin. Georgiyev seems seriously bothered by Shestyorkin’s presence. He’s been asked about him all season, and said that he’s going to outplay all the other options in goal. He had a very arrogant attitude, refusing to initially acknowledge that Shestyorkin wasn’t some unproven guy in the AHL. Watch the interviews and you’ll see what I’m saying.

Now he sees that he can’t outplay Shestyorkin because he’s simply not as good. He might not say anything dumb in the media, but I don’t get the sense it’s a particularly warm situation. Georgiyev flat out seems jealous that he was skipped over for the starting spot. On the other hand, Lundqvist is Shestyorkin’s idol. I think some overvalue the importance of that, but there are plenty of Russian teammates. I don’t think having Georgiyev as Shestyorkin’s back up is a comfortable situation for either.

This is total speculation on your part lol and completely made up. The post you were replying to was also speculating on Igor-giev's relationship, so unless you have an inside source in the Rangers locker room this is even more of a giant reach.

I'd be more inclined to believe in a slight rift between Georgiev and Shestyorkin over them helping each other out. They're only a few months apart in age, and both battling for a starting job. Goalies are different from players, in that a player can be competing with a teammate for ice time, while also playing together on the same line. Goalies are the opposite.. only 1 guy is in at a time. Long term only one gets paid big money. They both wanna be the guy. Thats a recipe for disaster. Goaltending units work best when both guys know their role, then they're able to support each other. I've been there, it gets messy when both guys think they're the starter.

If New York wants to keep the best 2 goalies, obviously its the Russians. However if Hank can accept being a backup and mentoring Shestyerkin thats the tandem they should go with.

On a side note, Pittsburgh is going to run into this problem with Murray and Jarry next season too. Two younger guys roughly the same age, both have shown to be capable NHL goalies.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Zucc been watchin the last dance

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think if you asked the FO of his current team, they would say the Rangers made the right move....

 

[Bleedred]

I don’t understand why they owe it to Lundqvist to play him because of who he used to be.

The Devils did this with Brodeur in the last year of his career and missed the playoffs by 5 points because they played him almost 40 games.

I’m pretty sure Lundqvist will get more games after they trade Georgiev. They’re obviously playing Georgiev more to get his trade value up and showcase him. That would at least be my guess as to why Lundqvist was sat in many of the games that Shesterkin wasn’t playing.

I think Lundqvist will go the Brodeur route. I think he’ll still wanna play one more year after his contract expires next year and he’ll end his career somewhere else. Someone will likely sign him for a year, even at 39 years old, because it’s Henrik Lundqvist. It’s unlikely it will be as the clear cut starter, but I’m sure he’ll get it. Especially when teams are still signing Mike Smith at 37 after having a horrendous season prior and the fact that Cam Ward even got another contract after 6 bad years in a row after Carolina let him go.

 

[Mr Positive]

I don’t understand why they owe it to Lundqvist to play him because of who he used to be.

The Devils did this with Brodeur in the last year of his career and missed the playoffs by 5 points because they played him almost 40 games.

I’m pretty sure Lundqvist will get more games after they trade Georgiev. They’re obviously playing Georgiev more to get his trade value up and showcase him. That would at least be my guess as to why Lundqvist was sat in many of the games that Shesterkin wasn’t playing.

I think Lundqvist will go the Brodeur route. I think he’ll still wanna play one more year after his contract expires next year and he’ll end his career somewhere else. Someone will likely sign him for a year, even at 39 years old, because it’s Henrik Lundqvist. It’s unlikely it will be as the clear cut starter, but I’m sure he’ll get it. Especially when teams are still signing Mike Smith at 37 after having a horrendous season prior and the fact that Cam Ward even got another contract after 6 bad years in a row after Carolina let him go.

Yeah I don't get it. People have said there have been secret disrespect behind closed doors but so far it seems just that Lundqvist is just not as good as the other players. I get there is some obligation to a player like Lundqvist, but there is also obligation to rewarding a young player for doing well, and you also need to be worried about resentment you are creating in them.

But I think Lundqvist stays 1 more year till he is UFA. They will trade Georgiev, keeping Shesterkin. The Rangers have other great goalie prospects.