Zibanejad versus Couturier

[JD1]

both came out of the same draft. Zbad, picked 6th was kind of an off the board pick, Couturier really dropped in his draft year - originally thought he' go higher than 8th.

careers to date

ZBad
200 43 57 100 -9

Couturier
287 45 73 118 +15

Zibanejad just signed a transition deal, Couturier signed long term

Who do you prefer / think will have the better career?

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[bleedblue1223]

Zibanejad pretty easily for me. He's better offensively, and while he's not Couturier defensively, he's still a quality 2-way guy.

 

[tohaa]

Couturier, no point comparing, imho. Zbad is bad. After Michalek, he's the most frustrating Sens forward.

 

[Wayne Primeau]

Mika.

 

[DrDangles]

Zibanejad pretty easily for me. He's better offensively, and while he's not Couturier defensively, he's still a quality 2-way guy.

Agreed, unless Couts makes a huge jump offensively this goes to Zibby pretty easily.

 

[Clamshells]

Couturier, no point comparing, imho. Zbad is bad. After Michalek, he's the most frustrating Sens forward.

I was super confused about this post until I looked into your post history and saw "Zibanejad is nowhere close to as good as Kadri" and "Bozak is better than Turris" and "Ceci belongs in the AHL/KHL" and it started to make sense.

 

[SensBrawler]

Couturier, no point comparing, imho. Zbad is bad. After Michalek, he's the most frustrating Sens forward.

Well that's not true...at all.

I take Zibanejad because of his offence and physicality. But what do I know? I'm a homer, so I could very well be wrong down the road.

 

[Sureves]

Very easily Zib. He's one of the most underrated Senators on these boards in my opinion.

I could easily see him as a top line player in the near future.

 

[Erik Alfredsson]

Zibanejad pretty easily imo.

 

[mantis toboggan]

Couturier pretty easily for me.

 

[Jeti]

Scheifele

But seriously, Zibanejad. Close though. I just like the offensive upside there.

 

[Hunter Gathers]

Zib. Easily.

 

[Samsquanch]

Couturier pretty easily for me.

Total no brainer amirite???

I love how easy a decision it was for you to take a guy who produces less points, and is way less physical...

 

[Stizzle]

Every time a Couturier thread pops up on the main boards it's just cringe-worthy to anyone who follows the Flyers and his usage. The poor guy has routinely had some of the toughest minutes in the league, no offensive zone starts, crap linemates, limited PP time, lots of PK time, etc, etc. Yet mostly every post is about him not scoring enough.

That's no knock on Zibanejad, he's a good player. I'm just saying it's tough to compare Couturier to most players. He has been used in such an unusual way. Just looking at raw point totals and making a decision is what 99% of people do and it's especially horrible in this case.

 

[bleedblue1223]

Every time a Couturier thread pops up on the main boards it's just cringe-worthy to anyone who follows the Flyers and his usage. The poor guy has routinely had some of the toughest minutes in the league, no offensive zone starts, crap linemates, limited PP time, lots of PK time, etc, etc. Yet mostly every post is about him not scoring enough.

That's no knock on Zibanejad, he's a good player. I'm just saying it's tough to compare Couturier to most players. He has been used in such an unusual way. Just looking at raw point totals and making a decision is what 99% of people do and it's especially horrible in this case.

His top 3 wingers last season were Read, and then a split of Umberger, Simmonds, and Schenn. Read had a down year, but Umberger is the only one in there that is truly bad.

His offensive zone starts are comparable to other shutdown centers, like Backes and Bergeron.

If Couturier showed more offensively, then he'd get more PP time and better linemates like Backes and Bergeron get, until then, he's just a great defensive 3rd line center. A quality top 6 center is better than that any day of the week.

 

[PhillyCurt12]

Shutting down the other team's top players is worth at least as much as the point difference to me. Given the minutes, zone starts, and quality of competition into consideration, Sean's offensive numbers are pretty dang impressive. I take Cooter every day.

 

[Samsquanch]

Every time a Couturier thread pops up on the main boards it's just cringe-worthy to anyone who follows the Flyers and his usage. The poor guy has routinely had some of the toughest minutes in the league, no offensive zone starts, crap linemates, limited PP time, lots of PK time, etc, etc. Yet mostly every post is about him not scoring enough.

That's no knock on Zibanejad, he's a good player. I'm just saying it's tough to compare Couturier to most players. He has been used in such an unusual way. Just looking at raw point totals and making a decision is what 99% of people do and it's especially horrible in this case.

But then you get flyers fans who answer Couturier AINEC or easily, and it becomes equally as cringe worthy. Trust me.

Zibanejad's physical game at 21 is almost as impressive as Couturiers defensive game at 21 years old. Difference being is that Zibanejad also produces at a top 6 pace.

There might be a very small handful of players who would be considered top 6 forwards who I would in fact choose SC over, but Zibanejad aint one of them. Too much upside.

 

[Stizzle]

His top 3 wingers last season were Read, and then a split of Umberger, Simmonds, and Schenn. Read had a down year, but Umberger is the only one in there that is truly bad.

Read was horrible last year. He played almost the entire year on a bum ankle. Yes, when healthy he is really good. Last year, he definitely was an anchor. And as you said, Umberger didn't even resemble an NHL player last year. That's not much to work with.

If Couturier showed more offensively, then he'd get more PP time and better linemates like Backes and Bergeron get, until then, he's just a great defensive 3rd line center. A quality top 6 center is better than that any day of the week.

You obviously are not familiar with how our PP works. Our 1st unit is really good and gets every second they possibly can. The 2nd unit is always just left over fodder.

 

[ponder719]

From a Flyers' fan perspective, I very much want to wait on all Couturier comparisons until he gets a year of playing for Hakstol under his belt. I'm thoroughly convinced he's going to start getting more offensive zone starts, and that his production will increase accordingly. Once people see that he does have offensive talent, his reputation should shoot up, too. Now, he's never going to be John Tavares with the puck, but he's got more to give than people can see, as does most of the roster. (Berube, for those who missed it, was AWFUL with his usage decisions.)

For now I'm giving this one an incomplete, because I don't think we're comparing Couturier to Zibanejad; we're comparing Couturier under Berube to Zibanejad, which isn't what we're going to see from him.

 

[bleedblue1223]

You obviously are not familiar with how our PP works. Our 1st unit is really good and gets every second they possibly can. The 2nd unit is always just left over fodder.

Pretty much like every other teams' PP. That's not the point though. If Couturier was good enough to earn more offensive minutes, then he would get them, hell he already gets decent PP minutes, even if it is 2nd unit.

The point is, Philly fans keep trying to push the argument that Couturier usage is holding him back from being a quality offensive player and because of that, he should be rated higher than guys who have proven they are quality in the top 6. He's got to earn more offensive minutes.

 

[Stizzle]

The point is, Philly fans keep trying to push the argument that Couturier usage is holding him back from being a quality offensive player and because of that, he should be rated higher than guys who have proven they are quality in the top 6. He's got to earn more offensive minutes.

... and then who gets the defensive minutes, Lecavalier? We don't have many options. We've always had stiffs like Lecavalier or Briere who need to be extremely sheltered. Unfortunately, Couturier draws the short end of the stick. I hope they can give more of those defensive minutes to Bellamare or Laughton soon, but that remains to be seen.

 

[bleedblue1223]

... and then who gets the defensive minutes, Lecavalier? We don't have many options. We've always had stiffs like Lecavalier or Briere who need to be extremely sheltered. Unfortunately, Couturier draws the short end of the stick. I hope they can give more of those defensive minutes to Bellamare or Laughton soon, but that remains to be seen.

He would play the role that Bergeron and Backes play. He would have better linemates, get more PP and offensive minutes, center the 2nd line, but would still play the shutdown role with defensive zone starts about 42.5% of the time.

Use Schenn-Couturier-Simmonds like Marchand-Bergeron-XXX or Steen-Backes-Oshie and then we can see what kind of center Couturier is.

I just don't think he can perform that role. He's a lesser version of Jordan Staal, and look what he's done with the more offensive minutes.

 

[GTA]

Zibanejad's physical game at 21 is almost as impressive as Couturiers defensive game at 21 years old. Difference being is that Zibanejad also produces at a top 6 pace.

Why are you framing your argument as if physicality and defensive acumen are equally important. One is vastly more impactful.

 

[kudymen]

It is local rule to have a Zbad vs. Couts thread at least once a week?

 

[THall4]

On a team like the Oilers where we currently have McDavid - Nuge at C ...I take Couturier as hes the perfect 3C