Zemgus Girgensons + Ted Nolan

[Heretic]

At first I wasn't entirely impressed by the Nolan hire because it felt like pandering, and it probably still is. Then I heard Teddy talk and felt better about it because I forgot how damn nice he is and how he always speaks from his heart. I guess with my disdain for Rolston still there, it was nice to see a human being talk to the team, especially with Lindy looking wore and beaten towards the end. I'm on board with Ted being here for the season now.

Anyways, not to be that guy, and Zemgus has shown a heck of a lot in his short time, so there's no reason to think he can't stay in the nhl, but don't you guys think there's a slight bias from Nolan to build up Girgensons, especially moving him to center, since Team Latvia has no centers currently? I'm not saying it isn't just a coincidence, or isn't "the right move" I agree with it really. I guess it just seems maybe too perfect that his coach for the national team is talking about how vital he is to the Buffalo Sabres AND moves him to center when he was previously playing wing. Again, I think I'm overthinking it, but I'm interesting in hearing what other folks think.

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[Beerz]

At first I wasn't entirely impressed by the Nolan hire because it felt like pandering, and it probably still is. Then I heard Teddy talk and felt better about it because I forgot how damn nice he is and how he always speaks from his heart. I guess with my disdain for Rolston still there, it was nice to see a human being talk to the team, especially with Lindy looking wore and beaten towards the end. I'm on board with Ted being here for the season now.

Anyways, not to be that guy, and Zemgus has shown a heck of a lot in his short time, so there's no reason to think he can't stay in the nhl, but don't you guys think there's a slight bias from Nolan to build up Girgensons, especially moving him to center, since Team Latvia has no centers currently? I'm not saying it isn't just a coincidence, or isn't "the right move" I agree with it really. I guess it just seems maybe too perfect that his coach for the national team is talking about how vital he is to the Buffalo Sabres AND moves him to center when he was previously playing wing. Again, I think I'm overthinking it, but I'm interesting in hearing what other folks think.

It is food for thought...but..could be a win win...good for Latvia...good for Sabres.

 

[PlamsUnlimited]

Zemgus' spud worth went up.

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

It is food for thought...but..could be a win win...good for Latvia...good for Sabres.

Pretty much this, although I'd like to see Larsson centering a line in the top nine before the season ends.

 

[smitty10]

A little off topic, but what do you guys expect Girgensons to be? Do you think he'll turn into a Hanzal/Goc-like forward that's very good defensively and at shutting down top lines while contributing 30-45 points per year? Or do you expect him to become a legitimate top 6 player at the NHL level?

I was very intrigued by him before the draft and have tried to keep tabs on him since. What do you guys expect from him?

 

[Sean McG]

I don't think it was as much the team Latvia connection (although that has definitely played into it) but coaches just seem to like Zemgus and the way he plays. Nolan obviously knows him from Latvia, and Girgs' game is all about his compete level, so Nolan likes that too.

If Girgs becomes a more effective center for Latvia, that would mean he's improving for the Sabres, which is Ted's job. Considering he's Latvia's head coach, he can play Girgs however much he wants for that team, so he doesn't need some excuse to play him more, or at a different position, for the Sabres.

 

[NotABadPeriod]

I think the Latvia connection is more of a coincidence than anything. I don't think that's gonna play into Nolan's decision making--especially considering if he gets the interim tag removed here, he's likely not going to stay Latvia's head coach--the NHL calendar would interfere with WC responsibilities (though that will likely be a non-issue this year since the Sabres aren't making the playoffs).

I think it has to do with Pat LaFontaine going with a guy he feels comfortable with. The LaFontaine-Nolan connection is much stronger than any Latvian connection. Though I do agree that Grigensons style of game fits a Ted Nolan team nicely, and Girgensons should be expected to do well under Nolan for that reason.

 

[Rhett4]

A little off topic, but what do you guys expect Girgensons to be? Do you think he'll turn into a Hanzal/Goc-like forward that's very good defensively and at shutting down top lines while contributing 30-45 points per year? Or do you expect him to become a legitimate top 6 player at the NHL level?

I was very intrigued by him before the draft and have tried to keep tabs on him since. What do you guys expect from him?

At this point, I see him as a top-end third liner. If they want to see what his offensive upside might be, he really needs to work on that at a lower level. He scored 6 goals in the AHL last year. He may be ready for the NHL in terms of mental maturity and physical maturity, but he still has a lot to learn at the lower levels. He may have the skill to be a 20-goal guy, but I don't think he's going to hit it based on his current trajectory.

 

[Chainshot]

A little off topic, but what do you guys expect Girgensons to be? Do you think he'll turn into a Hanzal/Goc-like forward that's very good defensively and at shutting down top lines while contributing 30-45 points per year? Or do you expect him to become a legitimate top 6 player at the NHL level?

I was very intrigued by him before the draft and have tried to keep tabs on him since. What do you guys expect from him?

Someone akin to smaller Dainius Zubrus or Hanzal -- a very, very good checking player who's contributions are more in the intangibles side of the game than on the scoring stat-line. If they'd spent time working on his offensive game rather than bringing him along in the AHL, I'd be more inclined to think he might manage to be a glue-type top 6er. But he's another one who I wonder at their handling of so far and wonder if his offensive game will progress much at the NHL level.

 

[SabresFan26]

Someone akin to smaller Dainius Zubrus or Hanzal -- a very, very good checking player who's contributions are more in the intangibles side of the game than on the scoring stat-line. If they'd spent time working on his offensive game rather than bringing him along in the AHL, I'd be more inclined to think he might manage to be a glue-type top 6er. But he's another one who I wonder at their handling of so far and wonder if his offensive game will progress much at the NHL level.

I like that Girgensons is faster than both those examples. Poor mans but more physical Bergeron imo. Others have compared him in his draft year to Toews, and Kesler.

 

[SamuraiArt]

Someone akin to smaller Dainius Zubrus or Hanzal -- a very, very good checking player who's contributions are more in the intangibles side of the game than on the scoring stat-line. If they'd spent time working on his offensive game rather than bringing him along in the AHL, I'd be more inclined to think he might manage to be a glue-type top 6er. But he's another one who I wonder at their handling of so far and wonder if his offensive game will progress much at the NHL level.

I agree that Girgensons could use some AHL scoring practice. I'm hoping they send a loaded Amerks squad to Europe. Larsson, Armia, Girgensons, Risto and Catenacci? Could be a sign of god things to come.

 

[Chainshot]

I like that Girgensons is faster than both those examples. Poor mans but more physical Bergeron imo. Others have compared him in his draft year to Toews, and Kesler.

And while faster, his strength still needs work as evidenced by how often he's knock off the puck or right off his feet right now. I'm keen to see how he fills out and what he can do with better balance.

I don't think the offense will ever be natural for him, much like Zubrus.

 

[Paxon]

I think the Latvia connection is more of a coincidence than anything. I don't think that's gonna play into Nolan's decision making--especially considering if he gets the interim tag removed here, he's likely not going to stay Latvia's head coach--the NHL calendar would interfere with WC responsibilities (though that will likely be a non-issue this year since the Sabres aren't making the playoffs).

I think it has to do with Pat LaFontaine going with a guy he feels comfortable with. The LaFontaine-Nolan connection is much stronger than any Latvian connection. Though I do agree that Grigensons style of game fits a Ted Nolan team nicely, and Girgensons should be expected to do well under Nolan for that reason.

I don't think the WC is what people have in mind here, it's the Olympics.

 

[SabresFan26]

And while faster, his strength still needs work as evidenced by how often he's knock off the puck or right off his feet right now. I'm keen to see how he fills out and what he can do with better balance.

I don't think the offense will ever be natural for him, much like Zubrus.

We forget he is 19 . We should be optimistic about his future, this kid wants it

 

[struckbyaparkedcar]

Someone akin to smaller Dainius Zubrus or Hanzal -- a very, very good checking player who's contributions are more in the intangibles side of the game than on the scoring stat-line. If they'd spent time working on his offensive game rather than bringing him along in the AHL, I'd be more inclined to think he might manage to be a glue-type top 6er. But he's another one who I wonder at their handling of so far and wonder if his offensive game will progress much at the NHL level.

Don't really see a difference between those archetypes.

He'll go as far as he wants barring injury or him having way less hockey sense than anyone thought. He's the one guy I don't think will suffer from tougher competition early on.

 

[jBuds]

I don't think that the logic of the OP makes sense.

Break it down.

- if Girgensons is a shoo in for Latvia (he is), then him being in the NHL doesn't have any bearing on him making the team there

- if Nolan knows ZG is on the team, wouldn't it make sense to put him in a position to get better as a hockey player? If he thinks he's best served as a winger for a bit to develop him, that would be the best idea to maximize the player come Olympic time.

- you don't forget how to play center

- if it is deemed that the AHL is best for ZG and he can play center there to develop, that's what will be done - again, to maximize him as a player

 

[Jacob582]

Ive been thinking the same thing. Conflict of interest. Can Nolan honestly make a completely unbiased decision here?

And if we are thinking it then it is on the player's radar. Many vets gave up on the season before it even started. Why be motivated when you gifted so many spots to rookies and you are using the team as a development year? So you are going to send all (assuming) the teenagers down except Girgensons who gets a promotion to center?

 

[jBuds]

Ive been thinking the same thing. Conflict of interest. Can Nolan honestly make a completely unbiased decision here?

And if we are thinking it then it is on the player's radar. Many vets gave up on the season before it even started. Why be motivated when you gifted so many spots to rookies and you are using the team as a development year? So you are going to send all (assuming) the teenagers down except Girgensons who gets a promotion to center?

Yes. The best interest for the player is the best for Latvia IMO. Whatever we do here to make him improve will help their team IMO

 

[Push Dr Tracksuit]

I don't understand this thread. Nolan is trying to develop Girgensons so that he can play center for Latvia? So what? He's a center. In order for this thread to have a point you must be claiming that him trying to make Girgensons into a center is detrimental to the Sabres. So you think there's some big conspiracy that Nolan only took this job to groom team Latvia candidates? That's a little ridiculous.

 

[Heretic]

I don't understand this thread. Nolan is trying to develop Girgensons so that he can play center for Latvia? So what? He's a center. In order for this thread to have a point you must be claiming that him trying to make Girgensons into a center is detrimental to the Sabres. So you think there's some big conspiracy that Nolan only took this job to groom team Latvia candidates? That's a little ridiculous.

Wrong. What I was saying is that Nolan, who was offered the job by LaFontaine, might be more apt to say Girgensons should play center because it helps him with team latvia as well. I did not say that Nolan took the job specifically for team latvia candidates. My point is that I hope Girgensons is able to thrive as a center and was put there because that's actually where nolan thinks he should be (sometimes kids are brought up on the wing first due to less responsibility) instead of putting the kid there because it might help his more permanent job out a bit.

I was just questioning whether the move was for the full benefit of the buffalo sabres or a way to get something out of this for team latvia as well, which make hinder girgensons development some by not putting him on the wing first and slowly moving him to center later.

 

[Jacob582]

I don't understand this thread. Nolan is trying to develop Girgensons tso that he can play center for Latvia? So what? He's a center. In order for this thread to have a point you must be claiming that him trying to make Girgensons into a center is detrimental to the Sabres. So you think there's some big conspiracy that Nolan only took this job to groom team Latvia candidates? That's a little ridiculous.

No one is saying that it is detrimental or that he took the job so he could move Girgensons to center.

But does it hurt team morale if his decisions are swayed by outside bias?

For all we know maybe it won't be an issue. Maybe Nolan asked the captain about the team and he said there are too many gifted spots to rookies, but Pysyk and Girgensons belong on this team.

 

[RazielMoshman]

Nolan and Girgs were made for each other with Girgs play style. if moving him to centre is a win-win situation I see no flaws in the plan, whatever reasons are behind it. I do really like Girgensons game and what his brought to the Sabres though.

 

[Namejs]

LOL.

This is one of those "What if Hasek had 4 toes on each foot, would he still be one of the greatest goalies in history?" type of threads, isn't it?

Short answer: OP needs to go outside.

Long answer: Girgensons is a natural center. Him playing wing and only wing was a bit of a surprise for most people in Latvia. The only connection between Team Latvia here is that Nolan is perfectly aware of the fact that:
a) Zemgus loves to play center;
b) he can play center at an elite/NHL level.

Which is why he was moved to center in the NHL after Nolan took over.

This should be pretty obvious to any rational person.

Other things to consider:
1) Team Latvia has a number of decent centers. It's not like Girgensons is the only guy available and the rest of them are playing amateur hockey. Sprukts has NHL experience and he's currently playing in the KHL and then there's a couple of other top 6 centers playing in one of the best KHL teams at the moment. And then there's a couple of NHL-draftees with AHL experience who could center the 4th line.

Even if Girgensons would play as a center for Team Latvia, he would play on the 3rd or 2nd line;

2) Girgensons has played wing in the national team as well. Several other players have been tried in center and they've been succesful (Ķēniņš from Canucks, Daugaviņš with NHL experience, Indrašis - a very talented young guy from the KHL).

3) you have to realize that Girgensons is just one of the players of Team Latvia, he's neither our leader, nor our Saviour. Slightly improving his positioning/etc. at center is a minor tweak that probably isn't going to change anything in terms of our success in the Olympics or WC.

So, yeah, get off your tin foil hat.

Zemgus is a Nolan type of guy. Always giving 100%, relentless, playing tough. If Nolan didn't know him, he might not be playing center right now. But it has nothing to do with some Latvian bias.

 

[Jacob582]

Vets don't like rookies being gifted roster spots.

My feeling is that the vets probably like Girgensons on the team. They don't feel that way about Grigorenko.

 

[stokes84]

Hope he becomes this generations Peca.