Zack Kassian Part IV - No Jimmies, No Rustle

[Taelin]

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[Serac]

Still wanna see some Kass on the PP unit
..at the point
Just once, do I want to see a one timer from the point
Maybe Kass is secretly our PPQB

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

Still wanna see some Kass on the PP unit
..at the point
Just once, do I want to see a one timer from the point
Maybe Kass is secretly our PPQB

think the only way you will see this,is with him on another team

 

[ProstheticConscience]

From the last thread, quoting Mortgage Broker:

I agree. I grew up in West Vancouver. I was a Canuck fans for over 30 years. I dont think its smart to drive the team at the cup. I know there are political forces that have a heavy hand in making the decisions.

Huh. I was wondering why someone with a Tampa avatar and location was all over Canucks threads like a rash. No offense meant, not saying you're not perfectly welcome to post here, but that does explain things.

Linden is a rookie overseer. Benning is a rookie GM. WD is a rookie coach. They dont want their first act in their career to be ripping the team down. The twins still think they can win. So, try to win.

Canucks are playing better than most thought, but that does not help Kassian, or Jensen or any of the other Canuck prospects. On a contending team they perform or get booted.

Horvat gets a free ride as the golden boy and to be honest, he can handle his 4th line minutes . Wouldnt matter much if he couldnt. Besides, he really is a cant miss prospect.

Totally disagree with Horvat getting a free ride. Horvat's had his share of "rookie being schooled" moments, but his defensive game is miles better than Kassian's. There's been noticeable improvement on a number of fronts, we've all seen it. He's earned his place. And...oh yeah, he's outscoring Kassian from the 4th line. Not that 8 points versus 5 points is a massive difference, but Horvat's clearly on his way up. I wish I could say the same for Kassian.

Kassian is a 50 point power forward that the fans and team mates alike love. Its a shame watching his 14 goal 29 point season last year not spring him onto a second line 20 20 plateau

But with Higgins, Burrows, and Bonino there is no way he can barge in there unless he literally blossoms on the spot. He also has a very competent Hansen , Richardson and Matthias making him look bad too.

Kassian's a 50 point power forward? Uh...did you add all his NHL totals together to get that number? Because I'm checking NHL.com, and I see 29 points as his high season. Bonino, Hansen, Richardson, Matthias, Burrows are making him look bad? These guys have been his linemates. Nobody's trying to make him look bad; he looks bad because he's not playing well with them. He's had his moments, but it's like he can only hold one thought in his head at a time. If he's trying to hit, he forgets about playing the puck. If he's playmaking in the offensive zone well, he's a ghost in our own end. Last game I have no idea what they told him to do, because he wasn't doing bloody anything.

Selling him now would be a mistake but if you just wanna give the guy away, PLEASE call Yzerman first .

I'm starting to lose a little hope in the big guy, but I still don't want to give up on him entirely. Of course I also though Jim Sandlak would blossom into a consistent power forward too when I was young and foolish.

 

[arsmaster*]

I'm hopng on the PP they drop him to the crease and move miller up to the left point. Heard he's got one heluva one timer. Gives Kass a good chance the see the ice.

 

[Baby Pettersson]

He's still not traded yet? Sheesh!

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

If Kass is getting moved I see Benning doing most of his shots at the draft for picks. Maybe Lack and Kassian will be moved.

 

[WTG]

I don't see Benning moving him now. Either at the deadline or at the draft hopefully to move up a couple picks to get a #1 center

 

[VanillaCoke]

So good last year, sucks this year. Not happy about that progression.

 

[fancouver]

AV 1st year - bad (but passeable as he was a rookie)
AV 2nd year - good in first 8 games, bad the rest of the way
Torts - bad in first half, good in last half
WD - bad all year round to date

or

AV 1st year - 100% bad
AV 2nd year - 80% bad
Torts - 50% bad
WD - 100% bad to date

Not the kind of progression you want to see between 21-24. These are the prime development years. I think Benning is working hard to move him. The comments on TEAM1040 really gave everything away.

 

[Scurr]

AV 1st year - bad (but passeable as he was a rookie)
AV 2nd year - good in first 8 games, bad the rest of the way
Torts - bad in first half, good in last half
WD - bad all year round to date

or

AV 1st year - 100% bad
AV 2nd year - 80% bad
Torts - 50% bad
WD - 100% bad to date

Not the kind of progression you want to see between 21-24. These are the prime development years. I think Benning is working hard to move him. The comments on TEAM1040 really gave everything away.

I don't agree with this. Kassian had been learning the game and progressing just fine. The end of last season was the peak of a slow and steady climb imo. The frustrating part now is that you know he can do it. It's not a matter of the game being too fast for him or him needing more experience anymore. He just needs to learn how to bring it consistently. He was one of the best players on the ice his second game back... and one of the worst his fourth. He's too far along to be making rookie mistakes. At least he should be.

 

[fancouver]

I don't agree with this. Kassian had been learning the game and progressing just fine. The end of last season was the peak of a slow and steady climb imo. The frustrating part now is that you know he can do it. It's not a matter of the game being too fast for him or him needing more experience anymore. He just needs to learn how to bring it consistently. He was one of the best players on the ice his second game back... and one of the worst his fourth. He's too far along to be making rookie mistakes. At least he should be.

Consistency is what separates a full time NHL player in the top 6 and a bottom 6 forward or worse... a journeyman. You can make that argument with a guy we had in Steve Bernier years back. One game he looks like a legit PF. Remember that game he played with the Sedins, scored a nice goal against Kiprosoff, played physical and then fighting Phaneuf? I remember that game because there weren't many of those. So he didn't have consistency...got demoted and played with Wellwood on the 3rd line and then the 4th and then had to reinvent himself as a grinder.

I'm not saying Kassian doesn't have the skill, but that skill isn't being translated to a 60 min game. He hasn't shown anything this year aside from a few nice passes and that's the concerning part.

The thing with Kassian is he'll be an NHL'er, but he's starting to look like a softer Torres than a Lucic. At least with Torres, you keep your head up when you're on the ice.

 

[Scurr]

Consistency is what separates a full time NHL player in the top 6 and a bottom 6 forward or worse... a journeyman. You can make that argument with a guy we had in Steve Bernier years back. One game he looks like a legit PF. Remember that game he played with the Sedins, scored a nice goal against Kiprosoff, played physical and then fighting Phaneuf? I remember that game because there weren't many of those. So he didn't have consistency...got demoted and played with Wellwood on the 3rd line and then the 4th and then had to reinvent himself as a grinder.

I disagree with the Bernier/Kassian comparison. Bernier was a good enough player to earn ice-time with good players but his skill level was not good enough. He couldn't keep the play alive like you want from a guy in the top 6 or finish. He is a reliable enough player to earn ice-time, though, which is why he was able to make hay in the bottom 6 and stay in the league.

I'm not saying Kassian doesn't have the skill, but that skill isn't being translated to a 60 min game. He hasn't shown anything this year aside from a few nice passes and that's the concerning part.

This can change for players quickly. When they start being more reliable, they end up with the puck more. When they have the puck more, you see more of their skill.

The thing with Kassian is he'll be an NHL'er, but he's starting to look like a softer Torres than a Lucic. At least with Torres, you keep your head up when you're on the ice.

Torres isn't as good a hockey player as Lucic is, though he was very reliable in a checking role here. Like Bernier, Torres doesn't throw the puck around as well as you'd like in the top 6. Lucic has been a good enough player to play on the top line of one of the best teams in the league. IDK where his game is at now... but there was a time when he was a much better passer and finisher than any of those other guys have been. Kassian is more talented than Lucic imo, though much, much less reliable.

All the guys you mention struggle some with consistency but that's not what separates them imo, it's their skill.

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

Maybe the biggest problem with Kassian's development is that he's never had a Naslund to play with.

Maybe Bertuzzi just hit the jackpot.

 

[fancouver]

I disagree with the Bernier/Kassian comparison. Bernier was a good enough player to earn ice-time with good players but his skill level was not good enough. He couldn't keep the play alive like you want from a guy in the top 6 or finish. He is a reliable enough player to earn ice-time, though, which is why he was able to make hay in the bottom 6 and stay in the league.

Torres isn't as good a hockey player as Lucic is, though he was very reliable in a checking role here. Like Bernier, Torres doesn't throw the puck around as well as you'd like in the top 6. Lucic has been a good enough player to play on the top line of one of the best teams in the league. IDK where his game is at now... but there was a time when he was a much better passer and finisher than any of those other guys have been. Kassian is more talented than Lucic imo, though much, much less reliable.

All the guys you mention struggle some with consistency but that's not what separates them imo, it's their skill.

You're underselling Bernier big time. He may not be the power-forward we all wanted, but he definitely was viewed as one of those guys in 2008. Like Kassian, he was a hot commodity and considered the next power forward.

Bernier has a career high of 32 points in 81 games with the Canucks. The following season in Vancouver he followed up with 22 pts in 59 games.

Kassian has a career high of 29 pts in 73 games with the Canucks. Following season he declined to 5 in 24....where we are today.

You missed my point regarding Torres and Lucic. I'm not comparing Torres with Lucic. One is a bottom 6 and the other is a top 6 player with a Stanley Cup ring. I'm saying Kassian's starting to look like a softer Torres than the Lucic we wanted.

 

[Scurr]

You're underselling Bernier big time. He may not be the power-forward we all wanted, but he definitely was viewed as one of those guys in 2008. Like Kassian, he was a hot commodity and considered the next power forward.

He was seen as having that kind of potential and I was definitely someone that was optimistic when we got him. As time moved along, though, you could tell that Bernier just didn't have the skill needed to play in the top 6. He isn't a good passer nor is he a good finisher. That isn't going to do it at the top of the lineup.

The reason Kassian hasn't had the opportunity that Bernier got is because he isn't a reliable player. It isn't a shortage of skill. Completely different problem.

Bernier has a career high of 32 points in 81 games with the Canucks. The following season in Vancouver he followed up with 22 pts in 59 games.

Kassian has a career high of 29 pts in 73 games with the Canucks. Following season he declined to 5 in 24....where we are today.

Production only tells a small part of the story. One player was reliable but lacking talent, the other is talented but lacking reliability. Similar effectiveness but one has a lot more room to grow.

You missed my point regarding Torres and Lucic. I'm not comparing Torres with Lucic. One is a bottom 6 and the other is a top 6 player with a Stanley Cup ring. I'm saying Kassian's starting to look like a softer Torres than the Lucic we wanted.

I didn't miss it... I disagree with it. The difference between Torres and Lucic is their skill. Lucic makes enough plays and finishes well enough to stay in the top 6. Torres does not. Kassian will not have the same problem that Torres has had, he's more skilled. He may end up having to learn some hard lessons before he becomes a pro like Torres did but they aren't similar hockey players.

I don't want Kassian to be Lucic. I want him to work hard and play the system so he can earn the ice-time that Lucic has. If he does that, he'll be a better hockey player than Lucic imo. That's what I want.

 

[I in the Eye]

Maybe the biggest problem with Kassian's development is that he's never had a Naslund to play with.

Maybe Bertuzzi just hit the jackpot.

I remember when many fans and media turned on Bertuzzi (like many are on Kassian now) before Bertuzzi took the next step in his development (i.e. he won't reach his potential). Many in Vancouver wanted Bertuzzi gone... shipped off while could still get something good for him - because his brains, aloofness, and poor worth ethic would prevent him from taking the next step. Hell, because of his brains, aloofness, and work ethic, there were those in Vancouver who wanted Bertuzzi gone even after he was an established top 6 forward. Unless you're the total package (consistently brilliant, hard working, talented, friendly, fast, strong, big) there's always a target on your back by some naysayers. Hell, even if the total package, you've got the target for a variety of other reasons. Such is life in the meat factory of a physics simulation, called hockey...

My vote is Kassian stays. Ride the project out, and see what he becomes. I like this a lot better than the alternative, and I do believe that Kassian will get a good package together that is consistent. If Benning votes Kassian goes... my vote is that Aquilini tells Benning that Kassian stays, and and to put Kassian's name back on his chalkboard. This is a food chain. I do think that Kassian is a player that Aquilini would like to keep... I hope, anyways... because I do have the feeling that Benning is leaning towards trading Kassian for the equivalent of an older piece of meat, and a younger pick.

 

[tc 23]

 

[Verviticus]

You're underselling Bernier big time. He may not be the power-forward we all wanted, but he definitely was viewed as one of those guys in 2008. Like Kassian, he was a hot commodity and considered the next power forward.

Bernier has a career high of 32 points in 81 games with the Canucks. The following season in Vancouver he followed up with 22 pts in 59 games.

Kassian has a career high of 29 pts in 73 games with the Canucks. Following season he declined to 5 in 24....where we are today.

You missed my point regarding Torres and Lucic. I'm not comparing Torres with Lucic. One is a bottom 6 and the other is a top 6 player with a Stanley Cup ring. I'm saying Kassian's starting to look like a softer Torres than the Lucic we wanted.

i dont even want a lucic or a torres. i just want a dude that plays hockey well and isn't a *****

 

[Bps21*]

Consistency is what separates a full time NHL player in the top 6 and a bottom 6 forward or worse... a journeyman. You can make that argument with a guy we had in Steve Bernier years back. One game he looks like a legit PF. Remember that game he played with the Sedins, scored a nice goal against Kiprosoff, played physical and then fighting Phaneuf? I remember that game because there weren't many of those. So he didn't have consistency...got demoted and played with Wellwood on the 3rd line and then the 4th and then had to reinvent himself as a grinder.

I'm not saying Kassian doesn't have the skill, but that skill isn't being translated to a 60 min game. He hasn't shown anything this year aside from a few nice passes and that's the concerning part.

The thing with Kassian is he'll be an NHL'er, but he's starting to look like a softer Torres than a Lucic. At least with Torres, you keep your head up when you're on the ice.

When he was still in Buffalo Rob Ray on commentary one day said that you can tell very quickly if a player has the mentality to want to engage consistently or if it's something that you have to drill into them over and over because it just isn't inside of them. And Kassian was the latter. He was bang on right.

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

Here's what I don't get, with all the teams getting rid of all their enforcers it makes physical play a market inefficiency, right? Here we can put out a lineup with Dorsett, Kassian and Sestito and we are just not even bothering. Who's gonna stop us, McGrattan is gone, everyone is gone except for Scott and he barely gets on the ice. C'mon guys!

 

[damack]

Here's what I don't get, with all the teams getting rid of all their enforcers it makes physical play a market inefficiency, right? Here we can put out a lineup with Dorsett, Kassian and Sestito and we are just not even bothering. Who's gonna stop us, McGrattan is gone, everyone is gone except for Scott and he barely gets on the ice. C'mon guys!

They wouldn't need to stop you, just skate around you and score. Again and again and again

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

They wouldn't need to stop you, just skate around you and score. Again and again and again

You must be thinking of that Bonino Vey and Higgins line they rolled out for a while. Dorsett's one of our best defensive forwards, kills penalties, and he leads the league in fights so get outta here with those cliches.

 

[leftwinglockdown]

You must be thinking of that Bonino Vey and Higgins line they rolled out for a while. Dorsett's one of our best defensive forwards, kills penalties, and he leads the league in fights so get outta here with those cliches.

Yeah, someone else on the Canucks lead the league in fighting majors last year. His name rhymes with Tostito.

Where did that get us?

 

[rune74]

Here's what I don't get, with all the teams getting rid of all their enforcers it makes physical play a market inefficiency, right? Here we can put out a lineup with Dorsett, Kassian and Sestito and we are just not even bothering. Who's gonna stop us, McGrattan is gone, everyone is gone except for Scott and he barely gets on the ice. C'mon guys!

I didn't know Kassian was supposed to play the same as dorsett and sestito, or if he was ever supposed to fill the role those players filled?