Yzerman on the deadline, the new aquistions, his reputation, Blashill's future, the prospects etc

[WingsMJN2965]

Larkin shouldn’t be asked to take any kind of team friendly deal. We haven’t heard a peep from his camp about spending 6 straight years on the outside of the playoffs looking in. Anything under $9M AAV is reasonable and almost certainly less than he could get in UFA. I’d be pretty happy with 8.5M x 8 for Larkin.

Bert should really be capped at 7.5M x 6, and that’s still an ugly deal internally. He’s not worth a longer commitment or more money. I don’t think Bert being a ppg player is a fluke at all, but I don’t think he can drive his own line and while I think he can make a good center look great, he’s not good enough to make an OK center look good. That’s the difference between a $7M and $8M winger IMO.

Really, because he took the 2nd line from garbage to respectable on his own lol.

 

[Reddwit]

End of the day I think the urgent tasks for Yzerman over the next 6 months are locking in Larkin and Bert and finding that top 6 center.

If you can get those two at team friendly deals (That’s probably a lot more likely with Larkin) that’ll be huge for the future, and give some wiggle room for FA signings.

I’m a lot less pessimistic than some. We’re getting to the point where we’re building out a pretty good core. (Larkin/Bert/Raymond/Seider/Edvinsson) We’re just at a point where we badly need center depth, and unfortunately have to wait on Edvinsson to develop.

All in all I don’t mind being in the position where we’ve got a good core and need to fill it out with depth.

Of course you’re less pessimistic than most. You’re already penciling a 19 year old with no NA hockey experience not just into your lineup but into your core and you’re treating our center issues as ones of depth, when in reality we need another Larkin.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Of course you’re less pessimistic than most. You’re already penciling a 19 year old with no NA hockey experience not just into your lineup but into your core and you’re treating our center issues as ones of depth, when in reality we need another Larkin.

“and finding that top 6 center.”

“and unfortunately have to wait on Edvinsson to develop.”

Reading helps, Einstein.

 

[MBH]

Yes yes, critical thinking is dead and you're Socrates.

It doesn't matter if any specific rumor is true or not. What I said remains true. The reality of sports management is that the vast majority of the work isn't shown to the public. We only see the finished product. Which serves as a metric of comparison between franchises, but fails to address the context of dozens of decisions and outcomes. That's all. It's not remotely controversial or even that insightful.

You got it boss.

 

[Frk It]

I'd say that anyone that is still grouping Larkin as a 2C, such as yourself, should drop the charade.

He's producing better than or comparable the following 1Cs on playoff teams:

Comparable:
Sebastian Aho
Mika Zibanejad
Evgeny Kuznetsov (better if Backstrom)
Elias Lindholm

Better:
Brayden Point
Patrice Bergeron
Ryan O'Reilly
Anze Kopitar
Any C on the Golden Knights
Any C on the Wild

He's behind Mackinnon, McDavid, Duchene, Matthews, Barkov and Crosby.

This isn't to say his value is greater than or equal to everyone listed here, but he is unquestionably in the mix with the 1Cs of competitive teams. He isn't a lock top 10 center in the league, but he's closer to that than he is to being near 30 at this point.

I mean, let's look at the whole picture.

17-18 - Has that 70 pt season, looks like a 1C to me.
18-19 and 19-20 - 76 pts in 115 games (54 pt pace) and looks like a 2C
20-21 - 59 pts in 57 games and looks like a 1C again to me

He has looked like a 1C and a 2C at various the points the last 4 years. I have been thrilled with his play this year. You just have to not fall too hard into recency bias.

 

[MBH]

I think you have to be somewhat careful and not just throw money at Larkin and Bert.
Larkin's next contract ... if he's trying for somewhere around $9M... well, i think Yzerman has to hold off and let him prove it for another half season.

Which Larkin is the real Larkin?
This year's point-per-game Larkin?
Last year's 1/2 point per-game Larkin?
The 53 points in 71 games Larkin?
His career has been kind of all over the map.
I think I'd be fine with 8x8.
Bertuzzi? I wonder about 5x7,25

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yzerman is not waiting, he believes in Blashil

Not firing Blashill right now is not the same as believing in him.

 

[Bench]

I mean, let's look at the whole picture.

17-18 - Has that 70 pt season, looks like a 1C to me.
18-19 and 19-20 - 76 pts in 115 games (54 pt pace) and looks like a 2C
20-21 - 59 pts in 57 games and looks like a 1C again to me

He has looked like a 1C and a 2C at various the points the last 4 years. I have been thrilled with his play this year. You just have to not fall too hard into recency bias.

We got ourselves a good ol' fashioned Ryan O'Reilly.

He's like a 1.5 center taking his career in holistically. Which is more than good enough, we just need that bona fide 2C to carry some of the offensive load when the scoring isn't flowing freely for the top line.

 

[Bench]

You got it boss.

 

[Gniwder]

He also had way more to deal. We can’t keep dealing all our good players for picks for forever. We’re supposed to be leaving a rebuild.

Thing is, he managed to even sell his garbage. There's no reason why Stevie couldn't have signed Johansson and flipped him instead of signing Rowney or Gagner

In order to sell something you gotta have something to sell.... aside from the top line and Seider, there's really nothing anyone wants. Next deadline Erne, Suter, Sundqvist, Oesterle and Ned will be on expiring contracts and the team would be lucky to get a couple of 3rd round picks at most. Bert and DBoss will also be on expiring contracts, if they don't extend during the season then the rebuild basically starts over.

This is a one line team plus Seider and Vrana. That's about all there is.

 

[nbwingsfan]

Thing is, he managed to even sell his garbage. There's no reason why Stevie couldn't have signed Johansson and flipped him instead of signing Rowney or Gagner

In order to sell something you gotta have something to sell.... aside from the top line and Seider, there's really nothing anyone wants. Next deadline Erne, Suter, Sundqvist, Oesterle and Ned will be on expiring contracts and the team would be lucky to get a couple of 3rd round picks at most. Bert and DBoss will also be on expiring contracts, if they don't extend during the season then the rebuild basically starts over.

This is a one line team plus Seider and Vrana. That's about all there is.

Apparently you missed Raymond and all of our prospects but okay. You don’t just sign garbage to trade them at the deadline. No team has really done that before.

I have exactly zero doubts Larkin is re-signed.
Bertuzzi is a maybe but regardless we are WAY closer to the end of a rebuild than Seattle

 

[MBH]

Find someone else to follow around, boss, With all due respect, boss.

 

[Bench]

Find someone else to follow around, boss, With all due respect, boss.

Dude, you replied to me unprompted. Go back up the comment chain, I was talking to my boy @Lil Sebastian Cossa .

And now you've got this coy chip on your shoulder thing going. I dunno. People try with you, they really do, but at some point you realize you're talking to someone who on the back 9 of their life that is spending their free time and energy antagonizing folks on a hockey forum. And that brings an overwhelming air sadness to the entire thing.

 

[Gniwder]

Apparently you missed Raymond and all of our prospects but okay. You don’t just sign garbage to trade them at the deadline. No team has really done that before.

I have exactly zero doubts Larkin is re-signed.
Bertuzzi is a maybe but regardless we are WAY closer to the end of a rebuild than Seattle

Stevie has, remember Merrill and Nemeth? Anyone that signs a one year contract knows they're going to get traded, Vanek was in the same boat. The whole thing is you want to sign someone that's better than garbage, lol.

Of course Seattle is 2 years behind Stevie, but the whole point was Stevie wasn't all that busy compared to Francis. You're reading too much into it.

Regardless, we better see better UFA signings than last offseason, Rowney, Staal, and Gagner don't really cut it. Signings like that and the team will still be .500 pt % even with Vrana and Edvinsson.

 

[ricky0034]

You are saying in 2 years Seider going to get paid more than Larkin? Never going to happened

unless he takes a step back he absolutely will unless he signs like a 2 year deal

elite young RFAs get paid coming off their ELCs nowadays, just how things work now

 

[ricky0034]

I'd say that anyone that is still grouping Larkin as a 2C, such as yourself, should drop the charade.

He's producing better than or comparable the following 1Cs on playoff teams:

Comparable:
Sebastian Aho
Mika Zibanejad
Evgeny Kuznetsov (better if Backstrom)
Elias Lindholm

Better:
Brayden Point
Patrice Bergeron
Ryan O'Reilly
Anze Kopitar
Any C on the Golden Knights
Any C on the Wild

He's behind Mackinnon, McDavid, Duchene, Matthews, Barkov and Crosby.

This isn't to say his value is greater than or equal to everyone listed here, but he is unquestionably in the mix with the 1Cs of competitive teams. He isn't a lock top 10 center in the league, but he's closer to that than he is to being near 30 at this point.

and last year he was 78th in the league among Centers in points while most of that list you posted was literally putting up over twice as many points as him

pardon us if we aren't sold on his production this year while shooting at almost double his career average

 

[Hen Kolland]

and last year he was 78th in the league among Centers in points while most of that list you posted was literally putting up over twice as many points as him

pardon us if we aren't sold on his production this year while shooting at almost double his career average

Why do you even bother with the rest of us, Mr. Contrarian? I’m pretty confident that is your last name after all.

You’re unwillingness to comprehend the difference between the team this year from the team last year, including the significant difference in the way that they play, is the undoing of your argument here.

 

[ricky0034]

Why do you even bother with the rest of us, Mr. Contrarian? I’m pretty confident that is your last name after all.

You’re unwillingness to comprehend the difference between the team this year from the team last year, including the significant difference in the way that they play, is the undoing of your argument here.

okay fine whatever

Larkin is a future hall of famer and probably the best Center in the league and next year will score 200 points

happy?

 

[Bench]

okay fine whatever

Larkin is a future hall of famer and probably the best Center in the league and next year will score 200 points

happy?

Not until you crown him King of all Dungeons.

 

[Reddwit]

Really, because he took the 2nd line from garbage to respectable on his own lol.

Uh, Bertuzzi actually didn’t do that, which was partial motivation for my comment. Suter put up 5 whole points in 21 games with Bert. He didn’t elevate Suter at all.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Uh, Bertuzzi actually didn’t do that, which was partial motivation for my comment. Suter put up 5 whole points in 21 games with Bert. He didn’t elevate Suter at all.

I noticed that you specifically mentioned Suter, and only Suter…

… I’m gonna guess that you did that because Fabbri was 9G 6A in 36 games (.42 PPG) before Bertuzzi moved and 8G 7A in 20 games (.75 PPG) after?

Or is it because Bertuzzi himself went from 17G 11A in 30 games (.93 PPG) to 8G 16A in 22 games after being put on the 2nd line? (1.09 PPG)

Apparently you thought I wasn’t gonna do my own homework before your tried pulling the wool over everybody’s eyes?

 

[Richard Gibson]

Steve Yzerman excited about Red Wings prospects Simon Edvinsson, Elmer Soderblom

Big Swedes could provide boost to Detroit's rebuild in coming years.

www.mlive.com