GDT: Your New Jersey Devils (11-4-3) @ Wienerpeg Jets (11-4-3), 3 PM, MSG+

[Lou is God]

I almost missed this game, was on my way to go mountain biking and wanted to see if the game was on at 7 or 8 tonight, saw it was on at 3pm and I turned it around. Plus it was starting to rain.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Give Zacha that extra ~6 minutes of ice-time Henrique gets and I guarantee you he'd be outscoring him.

And there is absolutely no way Noesen outperforms Zacha. I like Noesen, but comparing what he brings to the table to Zacha is...off base.

 

[VoidCreature]

Lol man you were the one who said Zacha looks 0% better by his second shift in the Chicago game. You seem to have a lot of patience with him /s

Why don’t you compare Henrique and Zachas even strength stats?

I also first joined the forum to defend him when he was playing in juniors. I've been a fan of his the whole way, and I know he's capable of more than this. He needs to step it up.

 

[Its a Trap]

If Zacha was 30 rather than 20, nobody would care that he's scratched given his play this season.

In fact, the same people ******* about him being scratched would want him scratched for a fetus in the AHL. These folks are fetus-lovers. Period.

Well, nobody would be complaining because scratching him wouldn't have an impact on his growth as a player which is achieved through...playing. At 30 he'd be what he is. He's not though. He's 20 and he should be playing, record or not. Are we just going to throw a players development away because we've had a hot start to the season? I thought the idea was to let the young guys play through their mistakes and develop. I'm all for punishment's when a players had a bad stretch of a night in the sky box to watch and get his shit in order. But that's it. One game. Then get him back out there.

 

[Its a Trap]

And the idea that Noesen should be playing over Zacha because he's had a "good few games" is absolutely outrageous. He's a waiver-wire pickup. That's all you're going to get out of him, "a few good games"

 

[liquid1988]

sooooo this almost makes it sound like hes going to get traded

 

[Azathoth]

sooooo this almost makes it sound like hes going to get traded

So weird. Send him to the ahl and let him develop or let him play. Not sure what good the benching is going to do. I think he has a shorter leash than others because he is essentially a pick from the old regime.

 

[The Devil In I]

Give Zacha that extra ~6 minutes of ice-time Henrique gets and I guarantee you he'd be outscoring him.

And there is absolutely no way Noesen outperforms Zacha. I like Noesen, but comparing what he brings to the table to Zacha is...off base.

Sorry to ruin the narrative but the gap is 4 minutes average TOI. And of this 4 minutes Henrique is getting 1:34 per game more on average at even strength and 35 seconds more PP on average. The largest part of the gap comes from penalty killing.

If you want to look at shot production based on TOI, which is still unfavorable to Henrique because he's played almost 40 more SH minutes....Henrique produces 1 shot per ~10 minutes of total TOI. Zacha produces 1 shot per ~12.5 minutes of total TOI.

This "Henrique is playing so bad this season" idea is so overblown. Zacha is not getting put in over a veteran player that's a key part of the PK and is playing roughly how he has his whole career...a streaky scorer that goes stretches producing nothing and then scores a ton over a 5-10 game stretch.

 

[BenedictGomez]

If you're going to tell me Noesen contributes in more ways than just on the scoreboard/statistically, then tell me Zacha shouldn't be playing because his stats aren't good enough, I don't know what to tell you.

So you want Zacha to be a 4th-line checker?

Different people fill different roles on a hockey team. There's no space on the 3rd-line for him now, and he sure as hell isn't playing up to par to be on a 1st or 2nd line.

 

[Khione]

Nice!

 

[BenedictGomez]

Give Zacha that extra ~6 minutes of ice-time Henrique gets and I guarantee you he'd be outscoring him.

It's 4 minutes, not 6 minutes. And 2 of those 4 minutes are PK time. So the disparity in time isnt as great as you think.

 

[BenedictGomez]

He's 20 and he should be playing, record or not. Are we just going to throw a players development away because we've had a hot start to the season? I thought the idea was to let the young guys play through their mistakes and develop.

This I agree with, which is why I think he should be returned to the AHL for 4 or 5 games to get him playing. See if finds his groove & some confidence in Binghamton against lesser competition.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Sorry to ruin the narrative but the gap is 4 minutes average TOI. And of this 4 minutes Henrique is getting 1:34 per game more on average at even strength and 35 seconds more PP on average. The largest part of the gap comes from penalty killing.

If you want to look at shot production based on TOI, which is still unfavorable to Henrique because he's played almost 40 more SH minutes....Henrique produces 1 shot per ~10 minutes of total TOI. Zacha produces 1 shot per ~12.5 minutes of total TOI.

This "Henrique is playing so bad this season" idea is so overblown. Zacha is not getting put in over a veteran player that's a key part of the PK and is playing roughly how he has his whole career...a streaky scorer that goes stretches producing nothing and then scores a ton over a 5-10 game stretch.

Purely guessed ice-time disparity. The point remains. You can't use Henrique's stat line to justify his inclusion in the team. Henrique's only skill beyond the penalty kill is his shot (for all that shot "production", he's got a whopping 3 goals to Zacha's 2). Does Zacha need to shoot more? Sure. But he can create at a level Henrique can't. And I'd wager those two minutes even/PP would still favor Zacha production wise.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

As much as I hate it, we just have to accept the fact that Zacha is going to be scratched until he is sent to Bingo. They don' like his style of play and until he starts playing a north south Miles Wood or Jimmy Hayes type game, he's just not going to stick in the lineup.

If the team keeps winning, I don't care. But I still believe the team is better with him than without him.

So a slow, puck bobbling turn over machine that whiffs on his shots and rarely uses his size to his advantage?

 

[BenedictGomez]

Sorry to ruin the narrative but the gap is 4 minutes average TOI. And of this 4 minutes Henrique is getting 1:34 per game more on average at even strength and 35 seconds more PP on average. The largest part of the gap comes from penalty killing.

If you want to look at shot production based on TOI, which is still unfavorable to Henrique because he's played almost 40 more SH minutes....Henrique produces 1 shot per ~10 minutes of total TOI. Zacha produces 1 shot per ~12.5 minutes of total TOI.

This "Henrique is playing so bad this season" idea is so overblown. Zacha is not getting put in over a veteran player that's a key part of the PK and is playing roughly how he has his whole career..

Yes, I've been saying this for a while.

The oddest part though, is there is almost perfect overlap between the #FreeZacha crowd and the Bench/trade/whip, Henrique crowd, and that makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Cult of Hynes]

The whole play yourself back onto the team while getting no playing time makes as much sense as jobs saying they are looking for experienced workers while being unwilling to give people working experience.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

Yes, I've been saying this for a while.

The oddest part though, is there is almost perfect overlap between the #FreeZacha crowd and the Bench/trade/whip, Henrique crowd, and that makes absolutely no sense.

We can crystallize the for Henrique argument to: "But he plays the PK."

Rousing stuff.

 

[Billdo]

The whole play yourself back onto the team while getting no playing time makes as much sense as jobs saying they are looking for experienced workers while being unwilling to give people working experience.

Bingo. How can he play back in when he’s not given a shot to play? I said it a few days ago that barring an injury i don’t see him getting into the lineup which means he should be sent down. Nothing to gain sitting in the press box.

 

[R8Devs]

I'm not part of any Henrique crowd, I don't think the Devils should sit him at all. But to question Zacha's production and then turn a blind eye to his is pretty out there.

Henrique has 62 minutes more of EV time and he has one less even strength point. Stafford has played with better line mates than Zacha in a winger role and has 1 more EV point in 32 more minutes of EV ice time. And yet people are drawing a line at Zacha's production?

 

[Ripshot 43]

Zacha scratched discussion...

 

[The Devil In I]

We can crystallize the for Henrique argument to: "But he plays the PK."

Rousing stuff.

+ produces more shots
+ takes less penalties
+ less glaringly bad offensive zone turnovers (this one isn't based on stats, but just on recollection so I may be off)

 

[Cult of Hynes]

Bingo. How can he play back in when he’s not given a shot to play? I said it a few days ago that barring an injury i don’t see him getting into the lineup which means he should be sent down. Nothing to gain sitting in the press box.

Yup, either play him in either league, or use him as a trade piece to help get a dman. They are just killing his confidence sitting him, even more so after he had a pretty solid game in Chicago and contributed to the team making a comeback. He has to be thinking, wtf do I have to do to get playing time when I get benched even when I contribute offensively?

 

[tr83]

Who knew that Tyler Myers would end up as a #5D or #6D in the NHL

 

[Cult of Hynes]

We can crystallize the for Henrique argument to: "But he plays the PK."

Rousing stuff.

Or a goal he scored 5-6 years ago in the playoffs that somehow has him labeled as clutch.

 

[The Devil In I]

Yes, I've been saying this for a while.

The oddest part though, is there is almost perfect overlap between the #FreeZacha crowd and the Bench/trade/whip, Henrique crowd, and that makes absolutely no sense.

It's odd for me because I've been on the opposite side of this type of argument, when it was Larsson getting routinely scratched. But I was arguing him playing over scrubs like Peter f***ing Harrold because our defense was craptastic. Currently our offense is pretty good, at least above average, and people are saying a consistent 40-45 point scoring veteran deserves to be benched so a 2nd year player that's not generating anything offensively can play.