Your favorite Bottom-6 role playing forwards (okay, 3rd pairing dmen, clear backup goalies too)

[Sanf]

Sanf=Foley Martin

There is no other explanation.

If you believe in reincarnation

 

[VanIslander]

You only live twice.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

By Hunter I OBVIOUSLY didn't mean Dale Hunter, the center for Goulet.

I meant Tim Hunter.

omg how could i forget that nose?

Holmstrom averaged 13:35 minutes over his 1000+ game NHL career because he was so often 4th line/1st pp. He was most often a net-presence powerplay specialist. Little else. RARELY in a top-6 role.

Holmstrom was generally a bottom-6 guy with PP time pre-2004-05 lockout, but from 2005-2010 he was absolutely 100% a top-6 forward for the duration of that period.

100% a top 6 forward post lockout?

Lol.

We went to different games.

Even factoring in his HEAVY PP time, his ice time among forwards (as per hockey reference):

7th
9th
4th (Maybe THIS is your memory?)
8th
7th
7th
11th

He clearly was not a top-6 forward post lockout. He was a great pp net presence pre- and post-lockout. No, he wasn't drafted among the top-1000 (yeah, thousand) in the History board's subboard All-Time Draft this year, but he isn't far off given his clear though limited skill set.

i guess by top six i meant a guy who played on the first or second line. like, carbonneau and otto might have been top two or three on their teams in forward ES icetime through their primes, but they still mostly played on third lines in those years. so while they literally played more minutes than, say, bellows or nieuwendyk, you'd call them bottom six players. this would apply in the opposite to holmstrom. draper almost always played heavier ES minutes than homer, but you wouldn't call the grind line a top six line.

my memory is that from the first post-lockout year through to their last finals, holmstrom played mostly with one or both of zetterberg and datsyuk.

just eyeballing the scoring logs,

2006: 9 ES points involving at least one forward on the goal and no zetts/dats, 2 unassisted goals, 3 points involving no forwards (35 ES points total) / only ES point in the playoffs was with both zetts/dats

2007: 4 - 0 - 1 (33 ES points total), 3/4 playoff ES points included zetts/dats

2008: 1 - 0 - 0 (22 ES points total), 7/7 playoff ES points included zetts/dats

2009: 3 - 0 - 0 (included hossa, who was a regular linemate of homer's, so only three ES points out of 25 not including one of zetts/dats/hossa), 4/5 playoff ES points included zetts/dats/hossa

i'm not going to keep doing this through the end of his career, but just from a glance he still mostly scores on datsyuk points in 2010, mostly on datsyuk+zetterberg points on 2011, and then in 2012, which was his last year, he goes back to being a PP specialist.

all to say, if we consider 2006 to 2011 his prime, and 2006-2009 his peak, he clearly played on detroit's top two lines.

 

[MS]

100% a top 6 forward post lockout?

Lol.

We went to different games.

Even factoring in his HEAVY PP time, his ice time among forwards (as per hockey reference):

7th
9th
4th (Maybe THIS is your memory?)
8th
7th
7th
11th

He clearly was not a top-6 forward post lockout. He was a great pp net presence pre- and post-lockout. No, he wasn't drafted among the top-1000 (yeah, thousand) in the History board's subboard All-Time Draft this year, but he isn't far off given his clear though limited skill set.

You're listing him behind guys who played 20 games in a season or who were clearly 3rd liners playing heavy minutes (Draper).

2009-10 - 6th in ATOI amongst forwards playing more than 40 games, 16 of 23 ES points involve Zetterberg or Datsyuk. He was playing on Datsyuk's line plus the top PP unit.

2008-09 - 7th in ATOI behind guys like Cleary who were more 3rd liners and only a couple seconds behind Mikael Samuelsson. 20 of his 25 ES points involved Pavel Datsyuk. Again, a Datsyuk linemate at ES with heaps of PP time.

2007-08 - 4th in ATOI amongst forwards. 21 of his 22 points involved Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

2006-07 - 7th in ATOI amongst forwards but this includes Draper. Was within seconds of Cleary and Franzen. Scored 30 goals. 28 of his ES 33 points involved Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

2005-06 - 7th in ATOI amongst forwards, again behind Draper. 59 points. 22 of his 35 ES points involved Datsyuk or Zetterberg.

_________

Basically when you take out Draper, between 2005 and 2010 he was consistently in the top 6 in his team in icetime, was basically ever-present on a line with Zetterberg or Datsyuk (mostly Datsyuk), and was a fixture on the top-unit PP. That's a top-6 forward, consistently, for a 5-year stretch.

 

[MarkusKetterer]

By Hunter I OBVIOUSLY didn't mean Dale Hunter, the center for Goulet.

I meant Tim Hunter.

Good thing he was always a 4th liner. Otherwise that nose would put his team offside constantly.

 

[silkyjohnson50]

To add to the Holmstrom conversation...

Post lockout he was definitely playing in the top 6, as noted, with Datsyuk and/or Zetterberg for a good stretch.

The reason for the ice time discrepancy is partially because Babcock would often shorten the bench the final 5-10 minutes of a game if the Wings were holding onto a lead, and Holmstrom would be one of the casualties. So while Datsyuk and Zetterberg were obviously going to eat a lot of those defensive minutes late, Babcock would throw a guy who was better defenaively out there like Filppula instead of Holmstrom to end close games with leads.

It was basically the opposite for Draper, who would get a lot of extra shifts late in games just to take defensive zone draws.

But the majority of the game Holmstrom was out there with the big boys on the top line and PP unit.

 

[Johnny Engine]

Jay McClement is the best Avalanche player I've ever seen

I absolutely love this combination of the post and the signature under it.

 

[Ceremony]

I absolutely love this combination of the post and the signature under it.

tbf I can't blame Sakic for someone wanting to play for the Leafs

 

[VanIslander]

Ceremony... you are the weirdest poster i've ever read in my many years here!

I do NOT "get" you.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Same here.

Some of my favourites that first come to mind. And not going into backup goalies because there would be so many

Gaetan Duchesne
Stewart Gavin
Dean Evason
Antti Laaksonen
Wes Walz
Bob Bassen
Dave Lowry

I wish there was a superlike function here.

Gaetan Duchesne is one of the best hockey names of all time.

True story, Wes Walz played a couple games on that 1995-1996 Detroit superteam that won 62 games. They let him walk and he played in Europe for a few years before coming back to play for Minnesota as an excellent 3rd/4th liner.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

bottom six lines i could kiss

stew gavin/bobby smith/gaetan duchesne

raffi torres/manny malhotra/jannik hansen

scott thornton/mike ricci/nik sundstrom

ed ronan/guy carbonneau/mike keane

and before my time but by reputation,

bob gainey/guy carbonneau/chris nilan

bob gainey/doug jarvis/jimmy roberts

don marcotte/derek sanderson/ed westfall

 

[Admiral Awesome]

Dan Hinote, if only because I drank with him at some Irish-style pub on St. Patrick’s Day.

 

[Hatfield]

Kevin Kaminski - Totally fearless ball of energy.

Quintin Laing -Shot blocking specialist, major balls.

Matt Hendricks - Seemed like a great teammate, tough, hard worker. Always stuck up for teammates.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Linseman
.

Linseman was a "role player," sure, but he spent a good decade or so as a first/second line player. You know that, so I'm curious as to why you included him when he clearly violates your own criteria for this thread discussion.

 

[VanIslander]

I remember Linseman fondly winning the Stanley Cup in Edmonton where he played behind Gretzky and Messier (though he started out on Messier's wing).

I didn't watch him play much in Philly and Boston, as i was in Western Canada and this was pre-Internet, pre-sports channels. My family had cable TV but not a satellite dish, so that meant we got Canadian channels plus ABC, NBC and CBS. I only saw American teams when they played Canadian teams on CBC or CTV or during the playoffs.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I remember Linseman fondly winning the Stanley Cup in Edmonton where he played behind Gretzky and Messier (though he started out on Messier's wing).

I didn't watch him play much in Philly and Boston, as i was in Western Canada and this was pre-Internet, pre-sports channels. My family had cable TV but not a satellite dish, so that meant we got Canadian channels plus ABC, NBC and CBS. I only saw American teams when they played Canadian teams on CBC or CTV or during the playoffs.

i'm not old enough to have seen it, but my understanding was that linseman centered messier and anderson in '83 and '84.

checking against the game logs, in the '83 playoffs it looks like linseman centered messier and willy lindstrom. in '84 linseman was with messier and anderson in the regular season but you're right, he fell down the lineup in the playoffs (semenko/lindstrom was one line, pouzar/lumley was another). messier and anderson seemed to have been a unit for most of the '84 playoffs, but rarely with linseman.

i think linseman's most famous line, the rat patrol with holmgren and young brian propp in philly, was probably a second line, or maybe 1a.

 

[buffalowing88]

Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov.

Most offensively-gifted third line I've ever seen.

 

[begbeee]

I love so many role players.

These aren't top two lines, top-3 dmen or starting goalies, but wow-impactful limited-minute depth role players.
Dzurilla

Where did you get a perception that member of several halls of fame was a depth/backup goalie?

Samuel Pahlsson
PJ Axelsson
Brad May
Ken Daneyko

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

so, from the 1993 draft thread, the great todd harvey

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Kotalik-Connolly-Afinogenov.

Most offensively-gifted third line I've ever seen.

i have fond memories of vanek - roy - afinogenov when they were a third line

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

I was a big Martin Lapointe fan back in the day. Dude was tough as nails and scored a lot of big goals in the 97 and 98 playoffs. Yes, he was a little undisciplined but I didn’t care about that as a kid.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

I was a big Martin Lapointe fan back in the day. Dude was tough as nails and scored a lot of big goals in the 97 and 98 playoffs. Yes, he was a little undisciplined but I didn’t care about that as a kid.

was lapointe a bottom six player, or was he more of a 5th/6th forward with a grindy style? old memories but i feel like he played on yzerman's line a lot during the cup years.

 

[GMR]

If we're counting goons, then they're favorites on pretty much every team. Popular with the other players and especially with fans.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

was lapointe a bottom six player, or was he more of a 5th/6th forward with a grindy style? old memories but i feel like he played on yzerman's line a lot during the cup years.

I think you’re right. He probably should’ve been in the bottom 6 but Bowman was a little unconventional with his lines, Yzerman with McCarty and Sandstrom in 97 for example. I remember Lapointe playing with Larionov and Shanahan quite a bit.

 

[buffalowing88]

i have fond memories of vanek - roy - afinogenov when they were a third line

That was our third line in 06-07. Remarkable amount of depth on those Sabres squads.