Your Definition of a Bust?

[Buffaloed]

This word gets thrown around enough, and I'm not talking about Pamela Anderson, but it means different things to different people. How do you define a bust? Is it simply defined by whether a player plays for a certain time in the NHL? Does it depend on where the player was drafted? A high 1st round pick who only makes it as a 3rd liner could be considered a bust by some, and not by others. Are there different kinds of busts? For example, Olli Jokinen was a bust as a draft pick, but I don't consider him a bust as a player.

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[triggrman]

I think if you make a spot on an NHL team you're not bust.

 

[ZombieMatt]

A bust is a player who failed to consistently make an NHL team.

There is a big difference between being a bust and not living up to expectations, but there seem to be many posters that don't understand that, which is a major problem for assessing players.

 

[MojoJojo]

Draft order has to count a little here. Obviously an 8th round pick playing on the fourth line cant be considered a bust, but you could not say the same for a #1 overall.

 

[MS]

A bust is a player who failed to consistently make an NHL team.

There is a big difference between being a bust and not living up to expectations, but there seem to be many posters that don't understand that, which is a major problem for assessing players.

Pretty much.

Guys like Malhotra, Fata, Kilger are big disappointments, but not busts.

A bust is a high draft pick who is never able to stick on an NHL roster. Jason Bonsignore, Terry Ryan, Michel Riesen, etc.

 

[Pensfan86]

I don't necessarily agree that if a guy makes an nhl team, then he is not a bust...even if it is on a consistant basis. Take someone like Andrei Nazarov for example. He was drafted 10th overall in 1992, has played in the league 95' and has been in it consistantly since 97. Despite this, he has only amassed 124 points (near 600 games played) . Do you really say this guy is not a bust? Similarly, you could point to Boyd Devereaux. Sure he is a great role player, you need guys like him to fill up the 3rd and 4th lines, but do you really think thats what Edmonton had intended for him as a future role when he was drafted 6th overall in 1996? He has had a couple decent seasons, bumping in 27 and 25 points in 2000 and 2002 respectively, but do you not agree that more is to be expected of him?

Personally, I say that if a guy is drafted in the top 10 and is not an allstar or at least a corner stone of the teams growth (I like to use Ruslan Salei as an example here, someone who probably is not at the elite in his position, but is nonetheless a major contributor to his teams success) then he is definitely a bust. If a player is a first round pick, or for that matter a pick in the top 3 rounds, and he does not reach some consistant with the team or another team (by consistant i mean they played at least three full seasons), then he is considered a bust. For a later round pick, (fourth and upward) I do not really consider any of those guys to be a bust, whether they make it to the nhl or not, at that point to me it is all about finding diamonds in the rough, etc.

I hate grouping guys like this along with players like Alex Stojanov and such who are major busts, but I guess i just look at dissapointments as busts whether people agree with me or not.

 

[West]

Go to www.hockeydb.com and look into the draft archieves.

If you average it out (very rough) you get a little less than 2 players every draft who have real NHL careers (over 400 GP about 200 for goalies) for each team in the league.

Of the guy's who make it about half of them will max out as 3rd liners realistically.

So given all that...

Anyone in the top 3 to 6 who can't see time on your first or second lines is a bust.

Anyone in the first round who can't make beat 400 GP in career is probably a bust (and this is a little harsh IMO).

Anyone else was a longshot in the first place.

 

[Hadoop]

Personally, I say that if a guy is drafted in the top 10 and is not an allstar or at least a corner stone of the teams growth (I like to use Ruslan Salei as an example here, someone who probably is not at the elite in his position, but is nonetheless a major contributor to his teams success) then he is definitely a bust. If a player is a first round pick, or for that matter a pick in the top 3 rounds, and he does not reach some consistant with the team or another team (by consistant i mean they played at least three full seasons), then he is considered a bust.

Anyone in the first round who can't make beat 400 GP in career is probably a bust (and this is a little harsh IMO).

WOW those are EXTREMELY harsh assessments IMO. The vast majority of 17 and 18 year olds are FAR away from being a star in the big leagues, simply because hockey players are drafted young and tend to develop slower then most other athletes (mind you hockey players have longer careers). Most prospects, even the 1st rounders, are drafted based mostly on how much they MIGHT improve, so the likelihood of even a top-10 pick becoming a star is fairly low. Also some draft years are weaker than others, and in a down year a last 1st rounder may have as much talent as a 2nd or even 3rd rounder in a deep draft year. Furthermore drafting is hardly a science, and a 5th overall pick may TRUELY be less talented/have less upside than a 20th pick. Consequently it's pure folly to place a minimum expected level of performance based merely on the position an NHL prospect is chosen in a draft.

 

[Le Golie]

Bust: A player who's failures today are more significant than his expectations yesterday.

 

[Behn Wilson]

Bust = Most old Blackhawk First Rounders
Eric Lecompete, Bruce Cassidy, Everett Sanipass, Jimmy Waite, Adam Munro, Dmitri Nabokov, Adam Bennet, & Ken Yaremcuk.

And it looks like Yakubov will be added to this list, per Dale Tallon he is going back to Russia this year, not a good sign..

 

[Blind Gardien]

Busts: guys like Bonsignore, Volchenkov, etc who never amounted to anything at all at the NHL level, and have no particular excuse for it.

Shoulda-beens: this is guys like Terry Ryan, Brett Lindros, a lot was expected but somehow injuries or some other factors seemed to conspire to make them seem like busts.

Disappointments: of various degrees... the Fatas, Malhotras, Lundmarks who never quite lived up to expectations, but still played some and might just maybe (to the praying homers) still pan out.

 

[King'sPawn]

Yeesh, 10 replies and no reference to womanly anatomy? We guys are going to be getting a bad name soon at this rate

 

[Russian_fanatic]

Busts: guys like Bonsignore, Volchenkov, etc who never amounted to anything at all at the NHL level, and have no particular excuse for it.

Shoulda-beens: this is guys like Terry Ryan, Brett Lindros, a lot was expected but somehow injuries or some other factors seemed to conspire to make them seem like busts.

Disappointments: of various degrees... the Fatas, Malhotras, Lundmarks who never quite lived up to expectations, but still played some and might just maybe (to the praying homers) still pan out.

How is Volchenkov a bust? Last time I heard he's a solid defensive defender who can really hit.

 

[Nazzy-19]

How is Volchenkov a bust? Last time I heard he's a solid defensive defender who can really hit.

If he's talking about the Senators' Volchenkov then I don't get it either.

 

[PSUhockey34]

How is Volchenkov a bust? Last time I heard he's a solid defensive defender who can really hit.

Not that Volchenkov, I think he ment Alexander Volchkov (4th '99)

 

[Nazzy-19]

Not that Volchenkov, I think he ment Alexander Volchkov (4th '99)

That makes a little more sense.

 

[PSUhockey34]

Jim Carey was a bust, went from winning Verinza to becoming nothing in a span of a few seasons

 

[ProctorSilex]

I have an itching feeling Crosby will bust.

 

[Jeffrey]

I have an itching feeling Crosby will bust.

I have a feeling crosby would have an incredible career ..
but some people would still call him a bust !

 

[ProctorSilex]

I have a feeling crosby would have an incredible career ..
but some people would still call him a bust !

I worry the same thing, because of what the media and fans did to Alexandre Daigle. 20 goals on the worst team in the league as a rookie was really nothing to laugh at, but people all wanted 50 or more. The next year he had 16 in 47 games...

Time and patience, but I don't think Crosby will be given that liberty.

 

[CapsCrazyX17]

Jim Carey was a bust, went from winning Verinza to becoming nothing in a span of a few seasons

Can you really say that somebody is a bust if they won the Vezina? I'd consider him to be more of a one-hit-wonder.

 

[ProctorSilex]

Can you really say that somebody is a bust if they won the Vezina? I'd consider him to be more of a one-hit-wonder.

Well said. Blaine Lacher was more of a bust than Jim Carey who never did get another fair shake.

 

[JSmith81x]

Bust = Most old Blackhawk First Rounders
Eric Lecompete, Bruce Cassidy, Everett Sanipass, Jimmy Waite, Adam Munro, Dmitri Nabokov, Adam Bennet, & Ken Yaremcuk.

And it looks like Yakubov will be added to this list, per Dale Tallon he is going back to Russia this year, not a good sign..

Yak signed in Russia only because he doesn't have an NHL contract for next season. If he re-signs, then he stays over here. His contract w/ Spartak Moscow is a "just in case" type of thing.

 

[Habsfan 32]

To me a bust is a player that was either highly touted or drafted high and when it came time to play in the NHL he did nothing or could not make the roster.

 

[Debrincat93]

To me a bust is a player that was either highly touted or drafted high and when it came time to play in the NHL he did nothing or could not make the roster.

agreed. A top 10 pick-15 pick shouldnt have a career as a 3-4th lineer, no matter how useful they are....