Value of: Your Cap Dumps/Casualties to the Wings

[Kaners Bald Spot]

One last question. How bad is Seabrook's injury? Is he out for next season whenever that will start? Is it career threatening?

Unknown what the extent of his injuries are. He's going to try to play next year. If he can't play or is worse than even last year, idk what the Hawks and Seabrook have in mind. He was embarrassing himself out there before the injuries. I couldn't imagine what would happen if he got worse.

 

[Sam Pollock]

Unknown what the extent of his injuries are. He's going to try to play next year. If he can't, idk what the Hawks and Seabrook have in mind.

It would have to be LTIR if he is injured which is the best case scenario for Chicago. I honestly believe that there will be more than the usual number of cases of LTIR around the NHL next season.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

No anywhere including GM thinks Gardiner is young and capable or did you forget how long it took him to sign?

Even with Detroit's awful defense we do not want Gardiner. Unless Carolina attaches a good asset to move him you are stuck with him. I highly doubt Seattle is going to take him in the expansion draft either.

But I do love your audacity lmao young and capable I am going to remember that one

I didn’t say he was young. I said relatively young. He’s 30. This is a thread where the name Brent Seabrook is being thrown around.

If you want to dive in head first into the narrative that Gardiner is pure trash and can’t even lace up his skates then that’s fine. It’s false but that’s your choice.

He’s a flawed player but he still has some above average skills that can be utilized by a team. He would be Detroit’s 3rd best Dman after Hronek, Nemeth, and Bowey.

Other than Hronek, the rest of the D doesn’t have much in the way of transition or offensive game. Gardiner could help there to some degree I bet.

Anyway, Canes aren’t hurting for cap space so it’s not dire to move him but with emergence of Fleury and adding Skjei, our LHD card is all filled up so there’s no space for Gardiner at his cap hit on our roster.

Your response just added nothing to a genuine conversation about trade value but you do you

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

If healthy & no skating issues etc, ideally, he'd be our 2nd pairing LD with rookie Mo Seider, while Mo is very good defensively, he dominated the AHL @age 18, he may not be ready to shelter a poor skating defensive liability just yet at the NHL level. If he has skating/liability issues he'd be our 3rd pairing LD, but fighting for that spot with Cholowski & replaced by Nemeth on the 2nd.

We do have some speedy F's though, so that'd fit.

I could see Nemeth being better than him but I feel confident he’d be better Cholowski.

If you give him PP time and in between 2nd to 3rd pairing minutes he could be an asset. I have to think the more time off and the less hockey played due to the break will only help his recovery. It was a limited showing in the play in and 1st round but there were games I thought he looked quite good after the break. Small sample though.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I could see Nemeth being better than him but I feel confident he’d be better Cholowski.

If you give him PP time and in between 2nd to 3rd pairing minutes he could be an asset. I have to think the more time off and the less hockey played due to the break will only help his recovery. It was a limited showing in the play in and 1st round but there were games I thought he looked quite good after the break. Small sample though.

Fair enough, seems like an honest & likely accurate assessment. Though if he's not better than Nemeth, that's not saying much. Nemeth is a 5/6 on a true contender, but our #3 last year (ahead of M.Green by a smidge) & #4 for 20-21...I mean in terms of impact, not TOI, though that may also be the same hierarchy. We really need a 2nd pair LD, not another 3rd pairing injured liablity, we got those covered. It sounds like he's more likely the latter which'd mean CAR is adding to get rid of him. What C/LD NHL ready prospects under ~23 do the Canes have? Geekie? Bean/Fleury? (sounds like a lot to add, but once that cap space is gone...)

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Fair enough, seems like an honest & likely accurate assessment. Though if he's not better than Nemeth, that's not saying much. Nemeth is a 5/6 on a true contender, but our #3 last year (ahead of M.Green by a smidge) & #4 for 20-21...I mean in terms of impact, not TOI, though that may also be the same hierarchy. We really need a 2nd pair LD, not another 3rd pairing injured liablity, we got those covered.

Yeah, I fee you on that. Like Gardiner May have better years I t he next 2 or 3 than Nemeth but I just wouldn’t bank on it 100%. Just trying to be honest.

If he’s healthy and confident and skating well then sure it seems more likely but also if that’s the case and he’s playing like a solid 4/5 then he’s fine on the Hurricanes too. Maybe a little rich for what we need there but not an issue at all. I think Gardiner is all about system and defensive pairing fit. He doesn’t quite seem to have that match in a Carolina so there not much we can do with him and his skill set

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Yeah, I fee you on that. Like Gardiner May have better years I t he next 2 or 3 than Nemeth but I just wouldn’t bank on it 100%. Just trying to be honest.

If he’s healthy and confident and skating well then sure it seems more likely but also if that’s the case and he’s playing like a solid 4/5 then he’s fine on the Hurricanes too. Maybe a little rich for what we need there but not an issue at all. I think Gardiner is all about system and defensive pairing fit. He doesn’t quite seem to have that match in a Carolina so there not much we can do with him and his skill set

Edited my last post #55.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Edited my last post #55.

I can’t see Canes adding a mid pick, slight retention or B level prospect but nothing substantial to get rid of Gardiner. Definitely not in the Geekie, Bean range of things. Fleury is graduated and his progression this year is one of the reasons why we don’t have space for Gardiner.

Im not a prospect guru so can’t go too far into it but for D maybe a Roland McKeown attached to him in return for a 4th or something like that.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

I can’t see Canes adding a mid pick, slight retention or B level prospect but nothing substantial to get rid of Gardiner. Definitely not in the Geekie, Bean range of things. Fleury is graduated and his progression this year is one of the reasons why we don’t have space for Gardiner.

Im not a prospect guru so can’t go too far into it but for D maybe a Roland McKeown attached to him in return for a 4th or something like that.

I don't think McKeown would have any value, if teams are interested in him he'll be available off waivers at the beginning of next season.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I don't think McKeown would have any value, if teams are interested in him he'll be available off waivers at the beginning of next season.

Fair enough. I’d have to look at the Canes prospect list to see who would make sense. Just saying it wouldn’t be in the Bean/Keane/Geekie category

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

I can’t see Canes adding a mid pick, slight retention or B level prospect but nothing substantial to get rid of Gardiner. Definitely not in the Geekie, Bean range of things. Fleury is graduated and his progression this year is one of the reasons why we don’t have space for Gardiner.

Im not a prospect guru so can’t go too far into it but for D maybe a Roland McKeown attached to him in return for a 4th or something like that.

That's understandable. However, from our POV it's over $12M Cap in 3yrs term +injury/LTIR risk + mobility issues + defensive liability/needs sheltering...that's a lot of Risk & Cap for any team, especially in a Flat Cap Squeeze for 3 yrs.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Fair enough. I’d have to look at the Canes prospect list to see who would make sense. Just saying it wouldn’t be in the Bean/Keane/Geekie category

I think you're right.

I do think it's a tricky one with the flat cap and his injury concerns, teams might shy away from Gardiner.

 

[Oddbob]

Jack Johnson + 3rd for a cheap 4th liner and a 5th?

You would need to attach a 1st and even then I don't think many jump on picking up his 3 years left contract for a late 1st.

 

[Oddbob]

Johnson doesn't have negative value so we have no interest in attaching picks to move him. His value is that of a mid round pick so you can swap the Washington pick for either of your 3rd's and we'll take Joseph and the 3rd out.

Ummmm what? Johnson absolutely has negative value and Pens fans have been complaining about his uselessness since day 1 of this new contract.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Ummmm what? Johnson absolutely has negative value and Pens fans have been complaining about his uselessness since day 1 of this new contract.

@Oddbob @HoseEmDown is referring to post#19 & the Bolts, not the angry birds: "Tyler Johnson + Mathieu Joseph + 3rd for Washington 2nd?".

 

[The Worst One]

Y'all want Bartolo Seabrook?

 

[Go Wings]

I didn’t say he was young. I said relatively young. He’s 30. This is a thread where the name Brent Seabrook is being thrown around.

If you want to dive in head first into the narrative that Gardiner is pure trash and can’t even lace up his skates then that’s fine. It’s false but that’s your choice.

He’s a flawed player but he still has some above average skills that can be utilized by a team. He would be Detroit’s 3rd best Dman after Hronek, Nemeth, and Bowey.

Other than Hronek, the rest of the D doesn’t have much in the way of transition or offensive game. Gardiner could help there to some degree I bet.

Anyway, Canes aren’t hurting for cap space so it’s not dire to move him but with emergence of Fleury and adding Skjei, our LHD card is all filled up so there’s no space for Gardiner at his cap hit on our roster.

Your dumbass response just added nothing to a genuine conversation about trade value but you do you

Gardiner does not have any trade value with his contract and poor season that is what you are missing. They couldn't give him away. Seider is almost ready and if Krug makes it to free agency Detroit will like offering him a contract.

Nobody in the league needs or wants Gardiner. The sooner you realize that the better to save us all from peddling him a younger competant player lmao that is still hilarious.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Gardiner does not have any trade value with his contract and poor season that is what you are missing. They couldn't give him away. Seider is almost ready and if Krug makes it to free agency Detroit will like offering him a contract.

Nobody in the league needs or wants Gardiner. The sooner you realize that the better to save us all from peddling him a younger competant player lmao that is still hilarious.

You seem not to be able to read or comprehend things properly so let’s just leave it there.

 

[njx9]

Strange amount of discussion about a guy (Gardiner) who, regardless of ability, isn't in any vague way what the Wings should be using their cap space on. Over-priced 30+ year olds (with term, no less) aren't helpful or useful. If Detroit is going to use it's cap space, the absolute last thing it should be spending on is more mediocre veterans that add absolutely nothing and who generally have very equivalent players available for free in FA.

The idea the Wings should even be looking at anyone else's cap casualties, let alone kicking tires, is asinine beyond belief.

 

[Oddbob]

@Oddbob @HoseEmDown is referring to post#19 & the Bolts, not the angry birds: "Tyler Johnson + Mathieu Joseph + 3rd for Washington 2nd?".

Oh sorry, I saw Johnson and nothing for sure about which one and thought it was Jack as his name is usually the one put up when associating cap dumps and Johnson.

 

[drw02]

Oh look tons of lowball offers from people who seemingly think it’ll somehow cost less now to dump their bad contracts amidst an economically taxing pandemic

 

[StreetHawk]

That's understandable. However, from our POV it's over $12M Cap in 3yrs term +injury/LTIR risk + mobility issues + defensive liability/needs sheltering...that's a lot of Risk & Cap for any team, especially in a Flat Cap Squeeze for 3 yrs.

Term is probably the killer here. GMs have to turn the ship around faster than in previous eras. With a salary cap, no reason to be bad for extended period of time if you make good draft selections.

Detroit's best player is Larkin and he is ufa in 2023, eligible for an extension in 2022. So, if the wings are still bad for another 2 seasons, which seems that they will be, that will make 6 consecutive seasons they are out of the PO, and maybe 3 straight years where they miss by a wide margin. Have to convince him to sign otherwise, it becomes a Taylor Hall situation.

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Jack Johnson + 3rd for a cheap 4th liner and a 5th?

... You're gonna have a bad time.

 

[CanadianHawks]

Hawks would send you Maata who could be a piece for you guys. Young enough 4/5 D. Take Smith with him who has one year left and he's yours

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Hawks would send you Maata who could be a piece for you guys. Young enough 4/5 D. Take Smith with him who has one year left and he's yours

Maatta had decent production 6pts/8gp in the playoffs & play-ins, I believe w/o PP time iirc. However his skating has always been an issue & Dzone coverage. I think the impending cap squeeze will see teams with Cap space with no shortage of good offers. Wings would probably hold off on this one for now tbh.