Line Combos: Your 2015-2016 Vancouver Canucks

Hi-wayman

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Feb 28, 2002
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Is Prust's attitude going to score 18 goals for us?

If the number of goals a player gets is the only measurement as to how good the player is then I can now understand why we traded Lack. Lack didn't score a single goal while he was with the Canucks. Obviously the type of player we Canuck fans should have run out of town. :sarcasm:
 

Huggy

Respectful Handshake
Jul 22, 2014
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Higgins isnt a good two way player.


Hes better than avg but overall hes terrible. And him and kassian were definately the weak links
 

Bad Goalie

Registered User
Jan 2, 2014
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That does seem the most likely outcome. As a starting point at least.

Though i think it's important to take a less "lineup card-y" sort of perspective on "top-4D". The way this staff likes to roll lines (and d-pairs)...i think it's really "top pair" which is Edler-Tanev...and after that it's just paper numbers vs minutes numbers.

You can write it out like:

Edler-Tanev
Hamhuis-Sbisa
Bartkowski-Weber

or whatever...but that doesn't exactly mean the minutes are going to be distributed 1-2-3-4-5-6 along that order.

Special teams usage and those "extra shifts" mean a lot overall. Just as we had a Bieksa last year playing effectively the same number of minutes in games as Tanev...despite one being on the "1st pairing" and one being on the "3rd pairing" by the lineup card. And you'd have a Bieksa playing more minutes most every night vs Weber who was apparently playing in the "top-4" and even raking in top-PP minutes. (with the exception of nights where we were on the PP all day).

People seem to get very literal about the cut-off between "top-4" and "not top-4" based on the way it gets written down on a "projected lineup card". I think you've gotta be far more flexible in thinking about how the minutes will ultimately break down.

The "hardest minutes" are what really matter. That's EV+PK minutes. In the event of which ATOI/60 for our defencemen last year breaks down something like:

Edler-20.35.
Tanev-19.92.
Hamhuis-19.08.
Bieksa-18.8.
Sbisa-18.07.

So Sbisa lands...~0.73 ATOI/60 minutes behind Bieksa. Not "top-4" minutes per se, but awfully close. To bump that up even just a minute more to surpass Bieksa...maybe that's something, and at that point i'd call Sbisa a fairly indisputable "top-4D". But that's just me...i find PP minutes and which partner a defenceman is paired with tend to really obscure and distract from who the "top-4D" on a team really are in a lot of situations.


However it shakes out...i do think they're counting on Bartkowski to be a regular fixture. And i do think Sbisa is going to be asked to absorb that fractional piece of a minute that Bieksa played more than him. I'm expecting roughly...Sbisa takes Bieksa's minutes, Bartkowski takes last year's Sbisa minutes. And if Bartkowski is actually decent...he should be able to play Sbisa type minutes well enough.

My biggest hope is that Corrado gets a fair shake. His development has kind of flatlined and that sucks...but a young player like that getting his groove back like he had early in his NHL experience, would be absolutely huge for this team. And he's got the shooting ability to make Weber a pressbox denizen once again. Possibly.

A lot of ways it could shake out though, and the "pairings on paper" don't necessarily mean everything.

Still think we're one solid veteran defenceman away from a very deep blueline. And that veteran defenceman is Ehrhoff and he's still out there...but i digress...tirade for another thread.

"His development has kind of flatlined and that sucks...but a young player like that getting his groove back like he had early in his NHL experience, would be absolutely huge for this team."

Yup, sitting Corrado in the pressbox all that time last year, but letting him "practice with the big boys and be coached by NHL coaches" (that's what I was told all last season when I was being derided for continually posting his games missed totals) certainly did wonders to accelerate his development, didn't it? He did exactly what I said would happen and you have just posted, he flatlined. He didn't improve significantly like he could have he had been playing all that time he just sat in the pressbox with Vancouver.

I know. I know. Keep beating the dead horse. It's over and that's how it is, but now when that improved development would pay off, he is likely to head back to the pressbox, practice with the big boys, and get coached by NHL coaches once again. That worked real well the last time, eh?

The big question? When does he get the game time ice to be the effective Dman they are looking for him to be. He can't play in the AHL without passing through waivers. He may become a classic example of the NHL player who had the ability to be a productive player, but was effectively prevented from doing so by his own team's idiocy. This really ****** me off.

This one is on Willie, not Benning, although Benning supposedly has the last say and could have ordered his insertion into the lineup. Then again once the games are being played, it seems Willie has full autonomy, so the blame does lie with him.

I had been giving Benning the benefit of the doubt because he did a very good job last season providing the Comets with everything they needed from day 1, but as this summer has gone both in Vancouver and Utica combined with the idiocy employed with Corrado and Sanguinetti last season, he's moving way down on my list of the brightest lights.
 
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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,143
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He's going to will Sutter to score his usual 20, which is 5 up on Bonino...and Baertschi to score Matthias' flukey 18g.

job done.

You must not be watching Canucks hockey all that closely if you think Matthias's 18 goals were flukey.
 

geebaan

7th round busted
Oct 27, 2012
10,301
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In every line combo, I see vey as the 4th line centre. Does that not terrify people after what he did last year? That line could potentially bleed goals against every shift....

My question is, if he struggles, do we have anything internally to replace him on the 4th line?
 

PM

Glass not 1/2 full
Apr 8, 2014
9,869
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In every line combo, I see vey as the 4th line centre. Does that not terrify people after what he did last year? That line could potentially bleed goals against every shift....

My question is, if he struggles, do we have anything internally to replace him on the 4th line?

Nope, not really. Our AHL team is going to have pretty bad centre depth this year and for some reason our executive team thought it was a genius idea to move Gaunce over to left wing after he played centre throughout most of juniors. Our only real callup option is Cassels who could surprise but I expect him to play a full year in the AHL this season. I think we may still have Will Acton (who has played some NHL games) but he is barely a replacement level player.

As to the first part of your post, yes, I am terrified. We can call Prust-Vey-Dorsett the Goals Against line.
 

huntison

Registered User
Aug 12, 2008
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Nope, not really. Our AHL team is going to have pretty bad centre depth this year and for some reason our executive team thought it was a genius idea to move Gaunce over to left wing after he played centre throughout most of juniors. Our only real callup option is Cassels who could surprise but I expect him to play a full year in the AHL this season. I think we may still have Will Acton (who has played some NHL games) but he is barely a replacement level player.

As to the first part of your post, yes, I am terrified. We can call Prust-Vey-Dorsett the Goals Against line.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Bae - Sutter - Vrbata
Dorsett - Horvat - Hansen


4th line of Higgins - Prust - Virtanen
 

WTG

December 5th
Jan 11, 2015
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Keep Dorsett far far far away from Horvat.

Don't want to ruin him by playing him by playing him next to some anchor.

In fact keep every prospect away from Prust and Dorsett. Put the prospects with players that make others around them better.

EI, last year, Bonino, Higgins, Burrows, Hansen.
 

Vancouver_2010

Canucks and Oilers fan
Jun 21, 2006
6,207
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do you think it's a good idea to insert Sutter to Dorsett and Prust? Hopefully McCann made it as a fourth line center, playing with Higgins and Hansen.

The line up should be something like this

Sedin Sedin Vrbata
Burrows Horvat Virtanen
Dorsett Sutter Prust
Higgins McCann Hansen
Kennis

Elder Tanev
Hamhius Weber
Bartkowski Sbisa (sigh)
Carrado

Miller
Markstrom
 

Strangelove

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Feb 27, 2002
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Again, you're talking about me and not the argument.

Again, your arguments consisted of "Sutter sucks!" and "Prust sucks!".

You're right, we've gone off-topic and I'll stop now

... but I blame YOU and your two-word "arguments" for taking threads off-topic!

CHEERS :)
 

Saturated Fats

This is water
Jan 24, 2007
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I think we're gonna see a camp surprise or two, and I *still* think we're gonna see a Higgins trade.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata
Hansen - Sutter - Grenier
Prust - Vey - Dorsett
Kenins/Virtanen (9 games)

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Sbisa - Hutton
Bartkowski

I see Grenier as being the prototypical player to play alongside Sutter in a shut-down role. 23 years old, 6'5, solid stats with Utica last year, was a leader for them in the playoffs... Really looking forward to seeing him in camp, hopeful he makes an impact.

Call it a gut on Hutton. I know he wasn't used in the playoffs in Utica, and he's fresh out of college... But he's got all of the tools, and I don't think this regime is particularly sold on Corrado. They'll give a 22-year old with his pedigree every chance to make the roster if he shows in camp.
 

Andy Dufresne

Registered User
Jun 17, 2009
2,639
727
There's a potential tire fire with every 3rd pairing scenario we can put forward.
Sbisa is Sbisa
Bartkowkski was described by some Bruin fans as basically Sbisa like. Maybe they were overly melodramatic fans looking for a whipping boy. Maybe they were right. We'll soon see.
Corrado is a rookie, more experienced than a guy like Hutton, but still a rookie.

I think Weber starts with Hamhuis because WD is familiar and comfortable with that combo. Not just Willie, all hockey coaches love player combos they're comfortable with.

Edler- Tanev
Hamhuis- Weber
Sbisa- Bartkowski
Corrado

I know Bart is/has been a LD but I can't see him sitting for a rook. Corrado will be playing soon enough, how long does this team ever go without a D injury?
I think Corrado might be the only guy who's seen significant time on both sides. Versatility is good.
What side does Chychrun play?:sarcasm:
 

Disappointed EP40

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Jan 13, 2015
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Again, your arguments consisted of "Sutter sucks!" and "Prust sucks!".

You're right, we've gone off-topic and I'll stop now

... but I blame YOU and your two-word "arguments" for taking threads off-topic!

CHEERS :)

I wrote more than Sutter and Prust sucks. Those were just facts to go along with my point.

The point was, you trade Prust over Higgins. Because Prust sucks. And again, I'm not going to spell it out for you. This isn't kindergarten and it's been outlined, repeatedly. Also, f you don't understand it yet, you never will.

If you want to keep diverting the convo to be about me, start a thread. You literally haven't made one point against or about my original point so blame away; it totally makes sense. :thumbu:
 

Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
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I think we're gonna see a camp surprise or two, and I *still* think we're gonna see a Higgins trade.

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata
Hansen - Sutter - Grenier
Prust - Vey - Dorsett
Kenins/Virtanen (9 games)

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Sbisa - Hutton
Bartkowski

I see Grenier as being the prototypical player to play alongside Sutter in a shut-down role. 23 years old, 6'5, solid stats with Utica last year, was a leader for them in the playoffs... Really looking forward to seeing him in camp, hopeful he makes an impact.

Call it a gut on Hutton. I know he wasn't used in the playoffs in Utica, and he's fresh out of college... But he's got all of the tools, and I don't think this regime is particularly sold on Corrado. They'll give a 22-year old with his pedigree every chance to make the roster if he shows in camp.

Kenins in well before Grenier.

Hutton will be rolled in the NHL at this time. It's a completely different pace than college and takes time to adjust to AHL, let alone NHL.
 

Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
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Higgins isnt a good two way player.


Hes better than avg but overall hes terrible. And him and kassian were definately the weak links

This illuminates the stupidity of this post (and evaluation).

He's not a bad two way player. Who would you think to replace him if he wasn't in the line-up ?
 
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Disappointed EP40

Registered User
Jan 13, 2015
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What I want it to be:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata
Higgins - Sutter - Hansen
Kenins - Vey - Dorsett

Virtanen (3-9 games, 4th line winger)
Cassels (3-9 games. 4th line center)

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Sbisa - Bartkowski

What I expect:

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Higgins - Sutter - Vrbata
Baertschi - Horvat - Hansen
Prust - Vey - Dorsett

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Sbisa - Bartkowski
 

Virtanen2Horvat

BoHorvat53
Nov 29, 2011
8,288
2
Vancouver
Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Horvat - Vrbata
Higgins - Sutter - Vey
Kenins - Cassels - Hansen

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Corrado
Bartkowski - Weber

Miller
Markstrom

I rather have a line of Kenins - Cassels - Hansen than Dorsett - Vey - Prust. I know the 4th line will be ugly, it is really unnecessary to have both Prust and Dorsett its a waste of space. I say let Prust and Dorsett battle it out till the deadline and the best guy stays.
 

Diamonddog01

Diamond in the rough
Jul 18, 2007
11,038
3,856
Vancouver
Going to go off the board a bit here but assuming our top line plays 20 minutes, and the other lines all play about 13...

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Baertschi - Vey - Vrbata
Prust - Sutter - Hansen
Higgins - Horvat - Dorsett
Virtanen / Kenins

Edler - Tanev
Hamhuis - Weber
Bartkowski - Corrado
Sbisa

Miller
Markstrom
 

dbaz

Registered User
Jan 29, 2010
1,142
480
want the following
sedin-sedin-burrows
baert-horvat-vrbata
higgins-sutter-hansen
dorsett-vey-prust
kenins/virtanen

edler-tanev
hamhuis-weber
bartowski-corrado
sbisa

expect to see
sedin-sedin-burrows
baert-sutter-vrbata
dorsett-horvat-hansen
higgins-vey-prust
kenins

edler-tanev
sbisa-weber
hamhuis-bartowski
corrado
 

biturbo19

Registered User
Jul 13, 2010
25,908
10,972
"His development has kind of flatlined and that sucks...but a young player like that getting his groove back like he had early in his NHL experience, would be absolutely huge for this team."

Yup, sitting Corrado in the pressbox all that time last year, but letting him "practice with the big boys and be coached by NHL coaches" (that's what I was told all last season when I was being derided for continually posting his games missed totals) certainly did wonders to accelerate his development, didn't it? He did exactly what I said would happen and you have just posted, he flatlined. He didn't improve significantly like he could have he had been playing all that time he just sat in the pressbox with Vancouver.

I know. I know. Keep beating the dead horse. It's over and that's how it is, but now when that improved development would pay off, he is likely to head back to the pressbox, practice with the big boys, and get coached by NHL coaches once again. That worked real well the last time, eh?

The big question? When does he get the game time ice to be the effective Dman they are looking for him to be. He can't play in the AHL without passing through waivers. He may become a classic example of the NHL player who had the ability to be a productive player, but was effectively prevented from doing so by his own team's idiocy. This really ****** me off.

This one is on Willie, not Benning, although Benning supposedly has the last say and could have ordered his insertion into the lineup. Then again once the games are being played, it seems Willie has full autonomy, so the blame does lie with him.

I had been giving Benning the benefit of the doubt because he did a very good job last season providing the Comets with everything they needed from day 1, but as this summer has gone both in Vancouver and Utica combined with the idiocy employed with Corrado and Sanguinetti last season, he's moving way down on my list of the brightest lights.

Yeah. I'm really hopeful that Corrado has a strong enough camp to force his way into the lineup more nights than not...but i'm not sure how that's really going to play out.

There are 3 "locks" Edler/Tanev/Hamhuis in the 1/2/3 holes. After that, it's a bit up in the air...presumably Sbisa will end up playing "#4/5" minutes again, and the way they talk about Bartkowski...it certainly sounds as though they're expecting him to be a regular at least, and contribute to our transition game. :dunno:

That leaves Weber...who you'd imagine they want to keep in the lineup for his PP utility, if nothing else. Kind of leaves Corrado on the outside looking in.

Which as you've said...a young player sitting in the press box is not helpful for his development. Something seemingly went awry and flatlined in Frankie's development prior to last season and the somewhat confusing press box shuffle. But that stint of sitting around not learning much, not playing a lot...certainly not very beneficial for a young player on the cusp. Hopefully it's not more of the same this year.

Ideally, if Corrado can show something with his RH PP point shot...maybe he can usurp Weber's role as a RHD. That seems his most likely bet for regular lineup time (outside of inevitable injuries obviously). But that's not going to be easy...WillieD is not quick on the uptake with a lot of these things, and is probably going to want to go right back to the well with the Weber configuration that went on a bit of a hot streak on the PP.


I do still think that having one more solid and established #4D would have made for a massively better situation to break Corrado in with. Either in playing with Hamhuis to make that a more robust pairing, or in anchoring a 3rd "solid pairing" allowing Corrado to play with Hamhuis, or even just have a solid proven Vet to drop in alongside Corrado on the 3rd pairing.

Instead, we kind of have a smattering of #5/6/7/8 type guys...some with a bit of "upside" as a good #4 maybe, but it really crowds that portion of the depth chart that Frankie falls into. Gonna make it hard to get into the lineup. That he can play a bit of his off side may help...but it's still "crowded" with "maybes" any way you slice it.

Gimme 1 "lock" and 1 "maybe" along with Corrado and a vet to sit out any day, over 3 "maybes" and then Corrado on the sidelines.

They talk a lot about the idea of "getting older" to "get younger". You bring in a Prust...so you can bring in a Baertschi or whatever. That makes sense. But i don't think they've really done that with the blueline as it stands right now...and appear set.
 

turkulad

Registered User
Sep 27, 2011
1,856
235
Turku, Finland
Sedin-Sedin-Burrows
Baertschi-Horvat-Vrbata
Kenins-Sutter-Hansen
Higgins-Vey-Virtanen
Dorsett-Prust

If Virtanen sticks, insert Dorsett in Kenins' stead and send Ronny down. Make that 3rd line the defensive line of all defensive lines.
If Virtanen doesn't stick, insert Dorsett there.
If Vey sucks like nothing else, claim a 4C off waivers.
 

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