Post-Game Talk: Young Stars Classic - Canucks def. Sharks - 3-2 (Horvat, Jensen, Lolwho? (Johnston))

[settinguptheplay]

What's the point of a hockey forum? For discussions and opinions no?

None of us are proclaiming to be scouts and gm's, it's just our personal opinions and not sure why they can't be accepted?

Was said a bit tongue in cheek... Does not always translate well in print. Much like sarcasm.

Was a light way of saying... Relax everyone. Some strong opinions based off flimsy evidence at this point. 2 weeks ago Jensen was a wasted pick. Now he has potential again. I have no issue with stating an opinion. That is what the boards are for. I agree.

 

[MS]

Gaunce would get destroyed in the NHL if he were given a defensive role on the team. I know it's early so Ill hold judgment till all is said and done, but if Gaunce doesn't improve much from last night he's got no chance at making the NHL this year. Main camp will be too much for him. I don't need to see flash, but like MS said, he's got to make more of a impact in games other than face offs.

How would he be a good defensive player on the NHL roster for us? Someone who can't skate, stands around and watches the play a lot? Thats everything against what John torterella has preached in his press conference. That's just my opinion and I'm just not impressed, this is coming from someone who always thought gaunce was a bottom 6 player with little offensive upside. I'm not expecting him to produce points but I sure as hell want to see a more impactful game.

Bang on.

Gaunce will likely be an excellent defensive player in the NHL several years down the road.

But being 'good defensively for a junior player' doesn't make you 'good defensively for an NHL player'. The best defensive players in junior hockey are still rubbish by NHL standards. Look at Hodgson, who was considered an excellent two-way player in the OHL.

Agreed that it's very difficult to imagine Gaunce anywhere near the NHL this year. In the case of Horvat, he's a) built like a tank and strong on the puck, b) is a good skater, and c) makes quick decisions with the puck. Those are the big stumbling blocks most players have moving up levels. Gaunce's skating looked mediocre in an ECHL caliber game last night, and (perhaps even moreso) his decision-making with the puck on his stick isn't terribly quick. IMO he looks two years away from legitimately contending for an NHL spot.

 

[do0glas]

just want to throw my .02

these guys werent only going up against "nobodies". we have very few legit invitees on the sharks, and the people we did invite arent terrible by any means + they are playing for contracts.

most of our forward prospects are defensively responsible 2 way players. the game had very little space. id temper some of your expectations a bit for these guys.

 

[PhilMick]

just want to throw my .02

these guys werent only going up against "nobodies". we have very few legit invitees on the sharks, and the people we did invite arent terrible by any means + they are playing for contracts.

most of our forward prospects are defensively responsible 2 way players. the game had very little space. id temper some of your expectations a bit for these guys.

So...the Sharks prospects are better than we think they are, which means our prospects aren't as good as we think they are?

 

[WetcoastOrca]

just want to throw my .02

these guys werent only going up against "nobodies". we have very few legit invitees on the sharks, and the people we did invite arent terrible by any means + they are playing for contracts.

most of our forward prospects are defensively responsible 2 way players. the game had very little space. id temper some of your expectations a bit for these guys.

I agree with that. We'll get a better read against the Flames bunch.
What also makes it hard to judge our prospects is that most of our talent on the team is at the forward position and our defence had a lot of trouble handling the Sharks' forwards and making passes to our forwards. Teams generate a lot of their offence through the defence moving the puck. Most of the offence the Canucks' forwards created needed to be created by themselves rather than breakout passes from the defence. That's what impressed me about Horvat/Shinkaruk especially as they were consistently creating offensive chances out of nothing. Adding Corrado and McEheny should help in tonight's game.

 

[Spectrefire]

CanucksArmy just put up their post-game thoughts, they seem to think that Gaunce played injured last night, which explains his game. It also explains why he's been benched today.

#50 Brendan Gaunce: I’m not sure why this is, but Gaunce was clearly playing hurt. He looked laboured in his skating stride, lost, slow, and avoided contact. He was behind the play often and looked like he’d earned a 4th line assignment. He was even benched for most of the 3rd period. He did skate today, but is not in the lineup for tonight. With a 28 skater roster in the tournament, I’m not sure why the Canucks would let him play at all.

 

[Lindgren]

Really no difference to giving a veteran a professional tryout. It's a chance for him to earn a spot and a contract coming out of camp.

Pretty sure Burrows earned his first NHL deal in this manner. He was a Moose finding that was invited to the canucks camp and he earned his deal (not sure the timing of the deal if it was from that camp or he impressed enough that they kept an eye on him and signed him later).

Of course; that makes complete sense. I don't know why I thought there would be a problem with a player on an AHL deal when those with tryout deals get into games.

I return to my prediction: Guimond will do surprisingly well and put himself on the radar, playing serious minutes for Utica and moving up the call-up depth chart.

 

[arsmaster*]

CanucksArmy just put up their post-game thoughts, they seem to think that Gaunce played injured last night, which explains his game. It also explains why he's been benched today.

Another reason I don't read that drivel....avoided contact? Really? Definitely didn't see that, not discounting there may have been an injury, but I can't agree with any of that.

He was definitely not given top 6 ice, that is for sure.

 

[HighAndTight]

Of course; that makes complete sense. I don't know why I thought there would be a problem with a player on an AHL deal when those with tryout deals get into games.

I return to my prediction: Guimond will do surprisingly well and put himself on the radar, playing serious minutes for Utica and moving up the call-up depth chart.

Quoting this for later.

 

[biturbo19]

CanucksArmy just put up their post-game thoughts, they seem to think that Gaunce played injured last night, which explains his game. It also explains why he's been benched today.

Have they not watched Gaunce before? That's not an injury, that's just how he skates. It always looks laboured and sluggish.

 

[Mofletz]

Have they not watched Gaunce before? That's not an injury, that's just how he skates. It always looks laboured and sluggish.

and the excuses begin...

 

[701]

Of course; that makes complete sense. I don't know why I thought there would be a problem with a player on an AHL deal when those with tryout deals get into games.

I return to my prediction: Guimond will do surprisingly well and put himself on the radar, playing serious minutes for Utica and moving up the call-up depth chart.

Who knows exactly if or when Guimond's talent will be displayed at the AHL and NHL levels, but there's no denying his amazing production as an ECHL rookie last year. His 49 points in 58 games garnered lots of league recognition:

Season: Awards by season:

2009-2010 NOJHL Second All-Star Team

2012-2013 ECHL All-Rookie Team
ECHL Defenseman of the Year
ECHL First All-Star Team
ECHL Most Assists by Defenseman (37)
ECHL Most Points by Defenseman (49)

Awards by league:

- ECHL All-Rookie Team 12/13
- ECHL Defenseman of the Year 12/13
- ECHL First All-Star Team 12/13
- ECHL Most Assists by Defenseman 12/13
- ECHL Most Points by Defenseman 12/13
- NOJHL Second All-Star Team 09/10

(www.eliteprospects.com)

 

[StringerBell]

I agree that Gaunce doesn't have to stand out if you accept that fact that he's going to be a low-impact bottom-6 defensive player. However, that would not be the consensus expectation on this website right now, and I think people have to temper those expectations.

I'm not sure what your definition of low impact is, but the consensus on this website definitely seems to be that he'll top out as a bottom 6 guy. The Pyatt and Gaustaud comparisons seem fair enough at this point I've read here seem fair enough.

CanucksArmy just put up their post-game thoughts, they seem to think that Gaunce played injured last night, which explains his game. It also explains why he's been benched today.

Interesting if true.

 

[orcasfan]

Stringerbell, I would like to know just how you determined that the "consensus on this website definitely seems top be that he will top out as a bottom six guy." A few people stating their opinions does not make a consensus! Have you done an actual survey of people's assessments for Gaunce? Or is this just your opinion?

 

[mossey3535]

It's fascinating seeing what people have written here compared to the prospects scrimmage earlier in the summer.

 

[Pseudonymous*]

It's fascinating seeing what people have written here compared to the prospects scrimmage earlier in the summer.

I felt what everybody has said reminds me of the last scrimmage for the most part

 

[MS]

I'm not sure what your definition of low impact is, but the consensus on this website definitely seems to be that he'll top out as a bottom 6 guy. The Pyatt and Gaustaud comparisons seem fair enough at this point I've read here seem fair enough.

What I've seen on here is those bottom-6 projections as a 'downside' but still a lot of hope that he can be a 50-point defensive #2 center. And a lot of talk about potentially making the team this season, which to me is a bit ridiculous.

It's funny how the stigma of being a #1 pick affects expectations.

Gaunce was a very late #1 pick in a very poor draft. Most years, he would probably have gone #40-50 overall. And if he was a mid-#2 pick, he'd be a guy who was 100% heading back to junior next year, and should probably be expected to have a full AHL season on top of that.

 

[me2]

Gaunce would get destroyed in the NHL if he were given a defensive role on the team. I know it's early so Ill hold judgment till all is said and done, but if Gaunce doesn't improve much from last night he's got no chance at making the NHL this year. Main camp will be too much for him. I don't need to see flash, but like MS said, he's got to make more of a impact in games other than face offs.

How would he be a good defensive player on the NHL roster for us? Someone who can't skate, stands around and watches the play a lot? Thats everything against what John torterella has preached in his press conference. That's just my opinion and I'm just not impressed, this is coming from someone who always thought gaunce was a bottom 6 player with little offensive upside. I'm not expecting him to produce points but I sure as hell want to see a more impactful game.

That and there are probably a dozen NHL, even AHL, plugs out there looking for work that can bring what he brings at the moment and they'd work for league min.

A this stage more development in juniors/AHL would be best if he can't show more.

 

[StringerBell]

Stringerbell, I would like to know just how you determined that the "consensus on this website definitely seems top be that he will top out as a bottom six guy." A few people stating their opinions does not make a consensus! Have you done an actual survey of people's assessments for Gaunce? Or is this just your opinion?

It's opinion, that's why I said it seems to be and not that it is.

 

[strattonius]

What I've seen on here is those bottom-6 projections as a 'downside' but still a lot of hope that he can be a 50-point defensive #2 center. And a lot of talk about potentially making the team this season, which to me is a bit ridiculous.

It's funny how the stigma of being a #1 pick affects expectations.

Gaunce was a very late #1 pick in a very poor draft. Most years, he would probably have gone #40-50 overall. And if he was a mid-#2 pick, he'd be a guy who was 100% heading back to junior next year, and should probably be expected to have a full AHL season on top of that.

I'm not sure how you quantify something like this - this is just speculation. Surely you can see why

There were also many opinions that suggested Gaunce was the BPA at #26 and had a very solid overall game.

But again, it is all just speculation we can only wait and see.

 

[quat]

Another reason I don't read that drivel....avoided contact? Really? Definitely didn't see that, not discounting there may have been an injury, but I can't agree with any of that.

He was definitely not given top 6 ice, that is for sure.

I'm not sure what to make of that as well. From what I saw last night Gaunce played a very simple, sound game. He took his time to get a feel for the game and his linemates, while making certain there were no glaring errors.

People who said he was behind the play or lost or ineffective must be seeing things I sure missed. My guess is the Canucks management would be very happy with what they saw in his game. I'm quite frankly blown away by the negativity directed his way after that game. The guy seems to exude confidence and stability when he's on the ice ... yet somehow that's "labored skating".

I've been wrong before, but I see a lot of upside in this player. Not saying he should be on the Canucks roster this year, just there is a lot to like with his game.

 

[StringerBell]

What I've seen on here is those bottom-6 projections as a 'downside' but still a lot of hope that he can be a 50-point defensive #2 center. And a lot of talk about potentially making the team this season, which to me is a bit ridiculous.

It's funny how the stigma of being a #1 pick affects expectations.

Gaunce was a very late #1 pick in a very poor draft. Most years, he would probably have gone #40-50 overall. And if he was a mid-#2 pick, he'd be a guy who was 100% heading back to junior next year, and should probably be expected to have a full AHL season on top of that.

Hmm I guess I'm just confusing expectations with hope. I agree with the entirety of your post -- including the strong presence of hope for a 50 point guy -- but I think there are more bottom 6 projections here than top 6 ones. However like orcasfan pointed out I haven't done a survey, it's just my opinion.

 

[quat]

and the excuses begin...

lol Not sure if you're just joking, but he's actually removing the injury excuse ...

 

[Virtanen2Horvat]

**** this feed is crap. Good chance by Shinkaruk