News Article: You want 'em both?

tigermask48

Maniacal Laugh
Mar 10, 2004
3,653
859
R'Lyeh, Antarctica
Oh my God, that is amazing... The sheer amount of excuses being made in that thread to justify Philly winning the deals is enough to make me laugh. The myopic ability of people boiling the trades down to numbers and nothing else is just pathetic. Oh and how awful does the trade of Carter to LA look? Jack Johnson (once again dead last on the team at -12) and Marko Dano...
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
62,066
62,400
I.E.
Why do people still go to bat like crazy for Holmgren? I don't understand. Is it a Philly sports culture thing?
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
62,066
62,400
I.E.
Philly's going nowhere with Holmgren at the helm, but I hope he never gets fired. Watching the ongoing train wreck has been a hoot.

:laugh:

If i had to pick a 2nd team Philly would be it, but Holmgren is like a parody of himself these days. Must be nice to have that kind of job security.
 

jml87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
2,912
1
Oh God, thanks for pointing out the comments section. There's so much stupidity in the world, it makes me sad.
 

johnjm22

Pseudo Intellectual
Aug 2, 2005
19,775
15,271
I never thought it was possible to make a trade that actually hurts both sides, but Holmgren and Howson may have pulled it off.
 

CowMix

Go Kings Go!
Feb 12, 2006
5,671
402
But guys wait see we won because the combination of 5 players we got in our offensive is putting up way more points than our 2 old players in a defensive system.
 

Muzzinga

Regehr GOAT
Oct 30, 2009
8,573
0
Philly won those trades by a mile. They got

> Carter, #1 defensive centre ever, best top prospect turned goon and a fan favorite. Steal
 

jml87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
2,912
1
I never thought it was possible to make a trade that actually hurts both sides, but Holmgren and Howson may have pulled it off.

Played by the master and they didn't even know it.
la_g_lombardi01jr_576.jpg
 

Reclamation Project

Cut It All Right In Two
Jul 6, 2011
34,135
3,783
Just to set the record straight -

LA became a contender after those trades.
Philly gutted a contender after those trades.
Columbus was eating glue in the corner after those trades.

And I'll use the Flyer fans usually line - "I'd make those trades again in a heartbeat. I'd even drive them to the airport!"
 

cyclones22

Registered User
Apr 4, 2003
5,036
5,523
Eastvale
Just to set the record straight -

LA became a contender after those trades.
Philly gutted a contender after those trades.
Columbus was eating glue in the corner after those trades.

And I'll use the Flyer fans usually line - "I'd make those trades again in a heartbeat. I'd even drive them to the airport!"

Pretty much. Since trade, Kings = elite Cup champ/contenders. Flyers = much worse off than before. Lumbus = spinning wheels. Those guys play way too much Fantasy Hockey. Watch more games and less box scores.
 

JT Dutch*

Guest
Just a reminder that not all trades made by a declining franchise are bad, and not all trades made by an eventual Cup winner are good.

I'm not at all convinced that the Kings won the Richards for Schenn/Simmonds trade and as time goes by, more than likely they will have definitely lost that trade.

The Kings ended up winning a Cup not because of the trade itself but because of the players they had in place surrounding the player they traded for.
 

jml87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
2,912
1
Just a reminder that not all trades made by a declining franchise are bad, and not all trades made by an eventual Cup winner are good.

I'm not at all convinced that the Kings won the Richards for Schenn/Simmonds trade and as time goes by, more than likely they will have definitely lost that trade.

The Kings ended up winning a Cup not because of the trade itself but because of the players they had in place surrounding the player they traded for.

So explain to me how the Flyers won the Richards trade. Putting aside the Carter trade because we didn't get him from Philly, this is only about giving up Schenn, Simmonds, and a 2nd for Mike Richards.

They won the cup the year they made that trade and Philly is now straddling the .500 mark. I don't know what you even mean by the last statement. You feel like you are missing something so you make a trade to to complete your team. You are missing some experience, leadership, and a #2 center, so you get Richards to fill that void. The players you lost are Schenn, who is nowhere near the caliber of Richards outside of maybe points wise, Simmonds, who is a serviceable winger you can easily find on the free agency market, and a 2nd rounder, which the Flyers turned into Grossman, a serviceable defenseman.

So your team created a solid 1-2 combo at center for years to come and you immediately won the Cup for the first time in franchise history. The franchise that you made the trade with is fighting to make the playoffs this year after missing them last year. So you don't think any of that has to do with Richards?

And you think we will eventually see this trade as a loss. In what world does a trade leading to a Stanley Cup equal a loss? You don't win the Cup in 2012 with Schenn and Simmonds. You need a #2 center and you need the guy who has the experience of winning on every level. I don't know what Schenn is going to turn into. In fact, I don't even know if they will keep Schenn with Laughton almost ready for the NHL. I do know what I've seen from the Kings the last three years. A team that is one of the best in the western conference, a perennial Cup contender, and a Stanley Cup winner.
 

Lead Role in a Cage

Registered User
Mar 27, 2008
435
2
Just a reminder that not all trades made by a declining franchise are bad, and not all trades made by an eventual Cup winner are good.

I'm not at all convinced that the Kings won the Richards for Schenn/Simmonds trade and as time goes by, more than likely they will have definitely lost that trade.

The Kings ended up winning a Cup not because of the trade itself but because of the players they had in place surrounding the player they traded for.

Totally disagree. The Kings won the trade as it, not only turned them into a contender (they weren't close before), it turned the team into a Stanley Cup champion.

Schenn, Simmonds and a second for an elite second line center, or, one of what became two parts of what Sutter called "a first line". That's some serious Wall Street type of transactions right there.

They might be younger and shinier, but they sure as hell ain't close to being so good as Richards and more importantly what Richards brings to the franchise. It was the equivalent of a Gilmour to Toronto a Stevens to New Jersey or a Goring to New York.

As time goes by, the Kings will continue to be the winner of this trade, as the winning continues... What Schenn and Simmonds bring is hardly unique and can be found. What Richards brings is just more difficult to find, even less replace.
 

Raccoon Jesus

Todd McLellan is an inside agent
Oct 30, 2008
62,066
62,400
I.E.
I'm not sure what the fascination is with "winning" the trade, though I thought it was a relative consensus that this was going to be a short-term win for the Kings with a long-term gain for the Flyers. Is it not working out that way? Seems like a win-WIN situation for me.

From the Kings side, we have already won/benefited from it with a Cup no matter how you look at it. I can't speak from the Flyers side, but it's possible for them to 'win' too. It's not a binary.
 

jml87

Registered User
Jun 27, 2011
2,912
1
I'm not sure what the fascination is with "winning" the trade, though I thought it was a relative consensus that this was going to be a short-term win for the Kings with a long-term gain for the Flyers. Is it not working out that way? Seems like a win-WIN situation for me.

From the Kings side, we have already won/benefited from it with a Cup no matter how you look at it. I can't speak from the Flyers side, but it's possible for them to 'win' too. It's not a binary.

Well, if you are someone like me who thought the trade was stupid from the Flyers side than you definitely want to win.

The thing was I'm not sure what this trade was about. You want to get younger, you don't sign Bryzgalov to a 10 year contract. For that matter you don't trade a guy who is only 26 years old. And also, Schenn hasn't shown anything spectacular and that was the meat of that trade, Schenn turning into a player similar to Richards.
 

Muzzinga

Regehr GOAT
Oct 30, 2009
8,573
0
Without Richards, the entire cup winning team is different. 2nd line would probably have been Penner-Stoll-Williams. Not quite as scary as Penner-Richards-Carter
 

damacles1156

Registered User
Feb 5, 2010
21,665
1,303
I thought everyone learned not to discuss hockey with certain folks....

Philly won the Richards trade......

Ok.....
 

KINGS17

Smartest in the Room
Apr 6, 2006
32,396
11,341
I thought everyone learned not to discuss hockey with certain folks....

Philly won the Richards trade......

Ok.....

We need to talk to those certain folks, they just have to show up to be educated, that's all.
 

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