TBN: Yet again, Sabres just leave you scratching your head

[Zip15]

I am one of those hoping for a Reinhart trade because it would be insane not to. Keepin the same core and expecting different results is insanity.

More or less insane than having four good forwards and thinking the elixir to this team's ills is trading one of them?

 

[CrazyPsycho]

More or less insane than having four good forwards and thinking the elixir to this team's ills is trading one of them?

Its a fair point. Im scared to death of that next contract

 

[jc17]

Trading reinhart is what you do when you are out of ideas and just start throwing stuff at the wall.

I don't understand how people can't separate the team's performance from individual performance. Just because a guy has been around during years of losing doesn't mean he's the cause.

Correlation =/= causation

 

[Zip15]

Its a fair point. Im scared to death of that next contract

And I'm concerned about the next 5-7 seasons if we trade one of our few good players. I'm concerned that Botts believes trading a quarter for two dimes and a nickel, as he has in the past, solves very real depth issues; it doesn't, it just creates holes that are harder to fill (1st line forward).

 

[OkimLom]

I am one of those hoping for a Reinhart trade because it would be insane not to. Keepin the same core and expecting different results is insanity.

I agree, time to trade Eichel.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Exactly.

Look no farther than the Bills when Beane and McDermott came in. What did they do? They traded away talented players they felt they couldn’t move forward as a franchise with.

Whether they keep or trade anyone is a moot point until they get someone that knows what the hell they are doing at the helm making the calls.

However, no player is bigger than the team. Especially Sam freaking Reinhart.

that’s not what the bills did though. They traded players (a) they didn’t believe wanted to be there and (b) that would help fix their cap issue. They didn’t trade good players to shake things up. While the bills plan was very specific and organized, the Sabres randomly trading good players and hoping good results follow is the opposite.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

Trading reinhart is what you do when you are out of ideas and just start throwing stuff at the wall.

I don't understand how people can't separate the team's performance from individual performance. Just because a guy has been around during years of losing doesn't mean he's the cause.

Correlation =/= causation

You are kinda missing the point. Nobody wants our roster full of bums. How else do you propose improving our roster? Theres no great FA out there to save us. We have 1 forward coming (Cozens) that will have any impact at all (maybe Arttu) and its gonna take some time for that too. Next thing you know Dahlin sucks up 8-10 mil.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

that’s not what the bills did though. They traded players (a) they didn’t believe wanted to be there and (b) that would help fix their cap issue. They didn’t trade good players to shake things up. While the bills plan was very specific and organized, the Sabres randomly trading good players and hoping good results follow is the opposite.

Its definitely easier to fix a bad situation in the NFL. But it does help to prove the point that Botts has no plan at all.

 

[Zip15]

You are kinda missing the point. Nobody wants our roster full of bums. How else do you propose improving our roster? Theres no great FA out there to save us. We have 1 forward coming (Cozens) that will have any impact at all (maybe Arttu) and its gonna take some time for that too. Next thing you know Dahlin sucks up 8-10 mil.

Unfortunately, that's the position this current GM has us in. And there's no quick fix. We may not know the path to success, but most of us know the path to perpetual failure, and that's unloading a talented player for a mix of less talented assets.

 

[RazielMoshman]

You are kinda missing the point. Nobody wants our roster full of bums. How else do you propose improving our roster? Theres no great FA out there to save us. We have 1 forward coming (Cozens) that will have any impact at all (maybe Arttu) and its gonna take some time for that too. Next thing you know Dahlin sucks up 8-10 mil.

Reinhart might be willing to take a cheap, team-friendly contract to play with Eichel, someone coming in probably won't be as willing. I'm on the fence and see his value as a trade chip but that might swing it for me, comes down to what happens this summer really.

 

[MayDay]

I don't even know.

I don't have a problem with the Sabres being bad, because every team is bad sometimes. My problem is that this organization doesn't seem to have any vision or plan for how to fix things. They are just drifting rudderless. There is nothing really to latch on to as reasons for optimism, even looking ahead to the next few seasons. It's a dark time.

This is exactly how I felt about the Bills during most of the Drought years. I felt they were directionless and lacked a long-term plan. Now my feelings about the teams have switched. The Bills clearly have a long-term plan for building the team, and while I certainly haven't agreed with all of McDermott's and Beane's decisions, I respect them for having a coherent plan and consistently sticking with it. I don't see any evidence that the Sabres are operating under any such plan.

 

[Dubi Doo]

Exactly.

Look no farther than the Bills when Beane and McDermott came in. What did they do? They traded away talented players they felt they couldn’t move forward as a franchise with.

Whether they keep or trade anyone is a moot point until they get someone that knows what the hell they are doing at the helm making the calls.

However, no player is bigger than the team. Especially Sam freaking Reinhart.

The Bills were in a completely different spot. They needed to clear out salary and rebuild. The Sabres need to build around their core, or at least give the core a shot with legit depth surrounding them.

Miller
Montour
McCabe

They should be the ones out of here next year.

The issue with this team the past 5 years has been management. That's it. Plain and simple.

 

[CrazyPsycho]

The Bills were in a completely different spot. They needed to clear out salary and rebuild. The Sabres need to build around their core, or at least give the core a shot with legit depth surrounding them.

Miller
Montour
McCabe

They should be the ones out of here next year.

The issue with this team the past 5 years has been management. That's it. Plain and simple.

We are so bad Risto is getting a free pass this year. He shouldnt be getting one.

 

[5 Minute Major]

that’s not what the bills did though. They traded players (a) they didn’t believe wanted to be there and (b) that would help fix their cap issue. They didn’t trade good players to shake things up. While the bills plan was very specific and organized, the Sabres randomly trading good players and hoping good results follow is the opposite.

They got rid of players they felt were not part of what they wanted to build. Plain and simple.

And the crap people are saying about randomly trading good players...did I say give away anyone? No. That's the narrative being painted and it's crap.

The team needs a huge breath of fresh air. Risto is my guy and I don't care what people say. He is arguably playing the best out of any of our blueliners right now. Look to trade him as well.

Thos team needs a serious enema from the top down.

 

[MayDay]

Get a GM that can actually formulate a plan. Then stick with it.

This is all I want from this team. Tell us, in clear language, what your plan is. Show us that you have a vision for where you want this team to be over the next year, the next three years, the next five years. Demonstrate a consistent commitment to the overarching plan.

That's what McDermott and Beane have done with the Bills from Day 1, to their credit. Again, I don't fully agree with their whole philosophy or all their choices, but they (1) formulated a plan, (2) communicated the plan, and (3) have consistently followed the plan. So they get my kudos for that.

I can stomach a lot of losing if I believe that the organization has a plan, but honestly at this point, I don't have that confidence with the Sabres. If there is coherent plan, I don't know what it is.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

I mean you obviously move Reinhart for a real return, we arent saying to trade him for the ROR value. This core needs to go.

I don't understand why people use the word "core" like that in arguments for why 'you just can't win' with certain players. Attitudes like that are why young players get traded and dominate. See: ROR, or why Phil Kessel has 2 cups. The team is more than just the "core". Why don't we blame the real problem--- the depth?

All you really do by saying "this core won't win" is scapegoating your best players for a team performance. They're the ones that are dong well they deserve praise not castigation.

This core is fine and YOUNG, we've not seen Eichel or Reinhart's peak yet. We need to keep good players not trade them for cheap and sell low with yet again another gaping hole in our depth leaving Eichel asking for a trade.

They should not trade Reinhart. Unless it's an offer too good to refuse. Reinhart's potential (and likely to fulfill) is much higher than his trade value now. No one is offering a mega deal for Reinhart. Keep him and be glad you have him. He easily can be over PPG. He's only 24. He hasn't even hit his prime yet. Trading Reinhart and selling low would be ROR 2.0.

 

[jc17]

You are kinda missing the point. Nobody wants our roster full of bums. How else do you propose improving our roster? Theres no great FA out there to save us. We have 1 forward coming (Cozens) that will have any impact at all (maybe Arttu) and its gonna take some time for that too. Next thing you know Dahlin sucks up 8-10 mil.

I get what you're saying.

Still the solution isn't "trade reinhart" because that implies the team will definitely get better. I'm not confident a return for him would improve the team, it would create another hole. Who do we trade Reinhart for? Depth, a 2C? Neither of those things fix the team with Sam gone. Sure, if some team made a crazy overpay he can be moved but I dont see it happening.

We can improve our roster by making the good minor trades and deals. And maybe 1 big one. In theory, this could have been our roster this season:

Olofsson-Eichel-Reinhart
Skinner-Mojo-Donskoi
Burakowsky-Asplund-Rodrigues
Girgs-Larsson-Okposo

Dahlin-Risto
Pilut-Jokiharju
McCabe-Miller

The "Core" is unchanged, but the minor moves make the team significantly different. And we still have a 1st that could be used to acquire a real 2C

The point isnt to dwell in the past, but to say there were opportunities for the team to get better without changing the core and I highly doubt it was a fluke. There will always be chances to improve the team with small moves, you just have to make the right ones.

 

[Buffaloed]

• I don't get why the Sabres didn't sign Jason Pominville when their injury run started and he was was probably willing to come for a low cap number — but then traded for Michael Frolik and his $4.3 million deal.

As much as some were adamantly against bringing Pominville back, I think he would have been a more sensible choice than Frolik.

 

[Chainshot]

This is all I want from this team. Tell us, in clear language, what your plan is. Show us that you have a vision for where you want this team to be over the next year, the next three years, the next five years. Demonstrate a consistent commitment to the overarching plan.

That's what McDermott and Beane have done with the Bills from Day 1, to their credit. Again, I don't fully agree with their whole philosophy or all their choices, but they (1) formulated a plan, (2) communicated the plan, and (3) have consistently followed the plan. So they get my kudos for that.

I can stomach a lot of losing if I believe that the organization has a plan, but honestly at this point, I don't have that confidence with the Sabres. If there is coherent plan, I don't know what it is.

They had a stated plan when they started - fix the development pipeline, build the farm into a feeder, and build on what they have in the NHL. They made overtures to playing time being earned, to accountability and consistency.

What we haven't seen is any of that consistently. Development would imply drafting well and the jury is firmly out on both their selection process (shuffling in the late rounds is dubious) and also those they select (hello all the big but unskilled D-men in 2018). It's inconsistent with what they said they wanted to do. As for building the farm... they have been a bit better, but they remain a move (or two) off from having a consistent power in Rochester. They haven't and they consistently ignore them in-season. Then there are the players they allowed to wallow for almost all of last year in Mittelstadt and Thompson -- there was no reason to leave them in Buffalo that practice and game action in the AHL would not have improved in their game. We even saw that with Thompson's season-ending run and the start of this year. We're yet to see if Casey can start to do what Tage did, but they wasted so much time.

As for the building on what they have in the NHL, outside of winning the Dahlin lottery, they have two moves that speak of adding core pieces in three years. Neither of those moves is without a caveat however - Jokiharju coming available for Nylander appears to be a move initiated by Stan Bowman to his folly, and of course Skinner's NMC destination selection benefiting the team that had the cap space at the time. The rest of the lineup, mostly filled out by Botterill, remains disposable and dispisable.

If the new guy comes in, states his plan, great. I'm in Missouri about this: show me.

 

[Buffaloed]

A lot of his rants I think are misguided. I am not in the boat with him and a few other posters driving the trade Reinhart posts.

Honestly, who are they going to get better than Reinhart for Reinhart?

Trading Reinhart is just like trading ROR for scraps all over again. Some posters get couple new faces for them to only be hated a few months later because the team is swiming the same circles and it now takes 2 guys to fill the hole of one guy.

Knock it off with the trade Reinhart.
It's a bad idea.

Asides from that, Harrington is defeated like the rest of us but this post seems rushed and misplaced with random thoughts jumping everywhere.

That's what makes it a rant.
RANT | meaning in the Cambridge English Dictionary
rant: to speak, write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things:
He's always ranting (on) about the government.
I get fed up with my mother ranting and raving (about my clothes) all the time.

 

[Chainshot]

I hate when Harrington finally comes over to my point of view. I'm left feeling like I need a shower.

 

[Chainshot]

• I don't get what they're going to do with Sam Reinhart. Do you want to pay $6 million to $7 million a season for multiple years? I don't.

Yeah, actually I do Mike. Some of your stuff works Mikey... but you still don't get it.

 

[joshjull]

Jake seemed almost overwhelmed in that interview when I watched it. Wanted to defend his team and teammates. But he basically responded to an angry mob gathering was to yell “hey! I’m over here!”

 

[Drunkard]

And I'm concerned about the next 5-7 seasons if we trade one of our few good players. I'm concerned that Botts believes trading a quarter for two dimes and a nickel, as he has in the past, solves very real depth issues; it doesn't, it just creates holes that are harder to fill (1st line forward).

Trading a quarter for two dimes and a nickel would be a step up for Botterill. He traded a quarter for two nickels, a penny, and a slug.

 

[Jim Bob]

• I don't get why the Sabres didn't sign Jason Pominville when their injury run started and he was was probably willing to come for a low cap number — but then traded for Michael Frolik and his $4.3 million deal.

As much as some were adamantly against bringing Pominville back, I think he would have been a more sensible choice than Frolik.

It is sad that an out of game shape Pominville and a 4th is way more attractive than the NHL player that JB acquired with the 4th he got for Scandella.

Heck, I'd rather have Scandella or the 4th than Frolik....