Yep, another ESPN thread (MOD: Soccer popularity)

[Confucius]

MLS is a joke.

I don't know a single person that actually watches it. Everyone I know who likes soccer watches the World Cup and the Premier Leagues.

I have season tickets to TFC. I do admit I'd rather have Leaf tickets but the fam. likes to eat.

 

[Ogrezilla]

At the beginning of that 1 yard run, there is the potential for a game-breaking highlight reel touchdown run. For just a second, your attention is fully on the play until you realize it's going nowhere.

Once you come to that realization, you ignore the replay and go to the fridge for another beer. You get back to the TV just in time for the next play, say another 1 yard run. Then you go flip the burgers. You get back just in time for third down, where the team finally puts together a decent pass play and you high-five your buddies before cracking open that beer and checking the burgers again.

With soccer, you can't divide your attention that way during boring play. You pretty much have to sit there and watch the entire game intensely, because god forbid you should miss the only goal of the game. And if that game happens to be really slow and uneventful, now you're sitting there watching bad sports for 2 hours nonstop. It just doesn't work for television viewing, and that's the trump card that football will always have over soccer in this culture.

Sure you can, you just need more than 1 TV Either way, I personally don't find it boring.

 

[Evil Doctor]

Lovely another soccer troll thread...thank God for thread ignore...

If I can only do that with all the soccer trolls...

 

[nyrmetros]

Soccernet was originally an English website which ESPN bought a couple of years ago is one of the most popular soccer websites worldwide. They mostly have Europeans writing for them. It's not some big ESPN conspiracy (this time ).

This.... and as a hockey and soccer fan, NHL is #4 in America and MLS becomes #5 and all is good. Nothing to be threatened by. Hockey and soccer fans have more in common than people think.

 

[nyrmetros]

Soccer really? really?!

That ranks up somewhere between chopping wood and watching paint dry.

They actually do chop wood at Portland Timbers games.......

www.portlandtimbers.com/supporters/timber-joey

m.youtube.com/watch?desktop_uri=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DZSHUYVb530Q&v=ZSHUYVb530Q&gl=US

 

[nyrmetros]

I'll stop criticizing the MLS and soccer the moment the soccer people stop making such idiotic arguments and stop obsessing over "passing" the NHL in popularity.

Most MLS fans are not saying that. It's usually outsiders..... I love the NHL and MLS equally... Though I play hockey 4 times a week and play soccer once a month. However, the potential does exist solely based on demographic shifts...

 

[nyrmetros]

You count the 45 seconds in between downs as "play"? Newsflash players in NFL games spend 67 minutes standing around, and 11 minutes playing the sport.

I've always said this.....

 

[nyrmetros]

C'mon usa! Beat Japan!

 

[Brodie]

do we need two concurrent soccer threads

we have a whole soccer forum

 

[MayDay]

do we need two concurrent soccer threads

we have a whole soccer forum

The funny thing is that both of them recently seem to consist mostly of nyrmetros talking to himself.

I think he's trying to keep bumping the soccer threads for some reason.

 

[projexns]

The quality of MLS soccer is pretty brutal, but of course I may be jaded by watching an MLSE product.

Soccer at it's best is wonderful. Arsenal vs. Barcelona in the Champion's League is being replayed right now. Wonderful soccer:

http://atdhenet.tv/37699/watch-fox-soccer-channel

 

[Brodie]

Toronto FC is pretty much as bad as MLS gets... we're talking English third division here. From top to bottom, MLS is close to par with the Scandinavian leagues or the English second division.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

According to ESPN radio, ratings for yesterday's game beat the Stanley Cup AND the World Series.

But....it's a minor sport.

 

[Dave is a killer]

According to ESPN radio, ratings for yesterday's game beat the Stanley Cup AND the World Series.

But....it's a minor sport.

for a final involving the US, it'd garner more than an 8.6 ... not buying it, it should've garnered a 30

 

[nyrmetros]

The quality of MLS soccer is pretty brutal, but of course I may be jaded by watching an MLSE product.

A good MLS club would be able to compete in the EPL, but probably just above the relegation battle. IMO. MLS teams could absolutely compete in the English First Division and gain promotion to the EPL. And I am sorry TFC has been so poor on the pitch. But MLSE certainly knows what they are doing........... especially with the Leafs....

 

[KzooShark]

According to ESPN radio, ratings for yesterday's game beat the Stanley Cup AND the World Series.

But....it's a minor sport.

If they rebranded the hot dog eating contest on July 4th weekend as an international US vs. whoever event, it'd probably garner a 10. Hell, the Vancouver Olympic hockey gold medal final garnered a 19.7 or whatever. Women's gymnastics and figure skating pulls 30's.

Americans will watch any absurdity if you cloak it in nationalism. But if someone wants to blow $100 million in three years on an "elite" women's soccer league again like they did after the '99 WWC, they're welcome to do so.

 

[Overkamp]

According to ESPN radio, ratings for yesterday's game beat the Stanley Cup AND the World Series.

But....it's a minor sport.

In the grand scheme of things it IS a minor sport in terms of viewership.

Millions of people aren't flocking to their tv's to watch MLS soccer.

World Cup of soccer is generally going to garner higher ratings; just like Olympic Hockey did last year.

MLS (playoffs or regular season) won't have higher ratings than the World Series or the Stanley Cup Finals.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

 

[kdb209]

In the grand scheme of things it IS a minor sport in terms of viewership.

Millions of people aren't flocking to their tv's to watch MLS soccer.

World Cup of soccer is generally going to garner higher ratings; just like Olympic Hockey did last year.

MLS won't have higher ratings than the World Series or the Stanley Cup Finals.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

Yup.

And what do you think those ratings would have been had it been a France v Japan final.

 

[Rocket]

In the grand scheme of things it IS a minor sport in terms of viewership.

Millions of people aren't flocking to their tv's to watch MLS soccer.

World Cup of soccer is generally going to garner higher ratings; just like Olympic Hockey did last year.

MLS (playoffs or regular season) won't have higher ratings than the World Series or the Stanley Cup Finals.

You're comparing apples and oranges.

In terms of viewership it is very close to hockey already, if not better.

Even discounting the world cup (yeah how convenient some try to pass off great ratings of 96 games over 13 months as just a curiosity and compare them with about 20 games related to the olympic circus every 4 years) here are some of the numbers soccer get in this country..

- Couple months ago the champions league final got over 4 mil viewers, a game involving two clubs from another continent. The 4 semi-final legs drew close to a mil on average despite 2 of them being on network available to only 40 mil household dragging down the average.

- Two weeks later, the Gold Cup drew great (similar to NHL early round playoff) ratings with the final getting over 8 mil viewers.

- Mexican league beats out NHL ratings (minus the last few SCF games) and that's just one group of soccer fans in the US.

- Many exhibition series invloving national teams and league clubs draw well on cable. World Football Challenge (involving some of the top Euro/Mexican clubs and MLS) that is being televised by ESPN is drawing much better than NHL regular season (not to mention 50-90,000 per game at the gate at an avg ticket price of over $60).

- Copa America, Copa Libertaores does better than NHL regular season.

- EPL gets nearly similar ratings to NHL regular season on versus despite the awful AM timeslot many of the games are on.

- MLS gets lower than NHL but not too bad given its expenditure level, lack of history and the internal competition is faces with other soccer leagues.

- Spanish la liga, German Bundesliga, Italian, Brazian Serie A, Argentine league all have their own fanbase here with small overlaps, tuning into their favorite soccer networks like FSC, FSES and GolTV regularly.

- Hundreds of thousands watch dozens of Euro leagues on broadband (ESPN3 and illegal sites) every week.

Also, lets not forget the hundreds of World Cup/Euro Cup qualifiers that also have decent to great ratings.

Soccer has the viewership .. just fragmented is all. There are so many leagues, tournaments, qualifiers and exhibitions going year-round on so many channels the fans have only so much time to catch more than a few. That's especially true for the casual fans. If soccer had only one big league with huge payroll, operating only 8 months a year and handful of games during the olympics every 4 years their numbers would be consolidated into a major level, visible to the 'naked eye'.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Soccer operates on a completely different dynamic. Their ratings are very heavily driven by immigrant demographics (it certainly isn't Middle America watching Copa America) which is an area they have almost to themselves with the possible exception of MLB competition. The flip side of that is that there are no tickets being sold to these demographics, nor are they buying jerseys for the local team. Because they aren't half as interested in American soccer as they are in the league back home.

So yes, you have a large number of people watching soccer games on television... but it's not the same dynamic as local fans following their local teams in an American league.

 

[46zone]

According to ESPN radio, ratings for yesterday's game beat the Stanley Cup AND the World Series.

But....it's a minor sport.

Olympic/World Cup type events get great television ratings when the US team goes deep. I guess you forgot the USA-Canada gold medal game was viewed by over 30 million people? Much, much more than the NBA Finals or World Series.

 

[Overkamp]

In terms of viewership it is very close to hockey already, if not better.

Even discounting the world cup (yeah how convenient some try to pass off great ratings of 96 games over 13 months as just a curiosity and compare them with about 20 games related to the olympic circus every 4 years) here are some of the numbers soccer get in this country..

- Couple months ago the champions league final got over 4 mil viewers, a game involving two clubs from another continent. The 4 semi-final legs drew close to a mil on average despite 2 of them being on network available to only 40 mil household dragging down the average.

- Two weeks later, the Gold Cup drew great (similar to NHL early round playoff) ratings with the final getting over 8 mil viewers.

- Mexican league beats out NHL ratings (minus the last few SCF games) and that's just one group of soccer fans in the US.

- Many exhibition series invloving national teams and league clubs draw well on cable. World Football Challenge (involving some of the top Euro/Mexican clubs and MLS) that is being televised by ESPN is drawing much better than NHL regular season (not to mention 50-90,000 per game at the gate at an avg ticket price of over $60).

- Copa America, Copa Libertaores does better than NHL regular season.

- EPL gets nearly similar ratings to NHL regular season on versus despite the awful AM timeslot many of the games are on.

- MLS gets lower than NHL but not too bad given its expenditure level, lack of history and the internal competition is faces with other soccer leagues.

- Spanish la liga, German Bundesliga, Italian, Brazian Serie A, Argentine league all have their own fanbase here with small overlaps, tuning into their favorite soccer networks like FSC, FSES and GolTV regularly.

- Hundreds of thousands watch dozens of Euro leagues on broadband (ESPN3 and illegal sites) every week.

Also, lets not forget the hundreds of World Cup/Euro Cup qualifiers that also have decent to great ratings.

Soccer has the viewership .. just fragmented is all. There are so many leagues, tournaments, qualifiers and exhibitions going year-round on so many channels the fans have only so much time to catch more than a few. That's especially true for the casual fans. If soccer had only one big league with huge payroll, operating only 8 months a year and handful of games during the olympics every 4 years their numbers would be consolidated into a major level, visible to the 'naked eye'.

MLS ratings are not close to the NHL's (clearly not better). They are still far behind the major 4 sports.

The rest of your post is a misguided exposition. Again, we are talking apples and oranges.

I'm not saying this because I hate soccer because I don't. I dislike using this term but in this instance its true; soccer is what it is.

 

[nyrmetros]

Soccer operates on a completely different dynamic. Their ratings are very heavily driven by immigrant demographics (it certainly isn't Middle America watching Copa America) which is an area they have almost to themselves with the possible exception of MLB competition. The flip side of that is that there are no tickets being sold to these demographics, nor are they buying jerseys for the local team. Because they aren't half as interested in American soccer as they are in the league back home.

So yes, you have a large number of people watching soccer games on television... but it's not the same dynamic as local fans following their local teams in an American league.

Yes, this is a major issue that needs to be addressed. Soccer fans vs MLS fans.

 

[Rocket]

Soccer operates on a completely different dynamic. Their ratings are very heavily driven by immigrant demographics (it certainly isn't Middle America watching Copa America) which is an area they have almost to themselves with the possible exception of MLB competition. The flip side of that is that there are no tickets being sold to these demographics, nor are they buying jerseys for the local team. Because they aren't half as interested in American soccer as they are in the league back home.

So yes, you have a large number of people watching soccer games on television... but it's not the same dynamic as local fans following their local teams in an American league.

Because they/their parents/grandparents came from another country their numbers don't count? Besides, Some of the tournaments like Copa America and Libartadores may not have a lot of 'middle America' (whatever the hell that term means these days) watching but other tournaments/leagues like Champions League, EPL (especially the bigger matchups), MLS etc. do. Maybe these legaues individually don't but combined do. The young-adult Americans who grew up with the sport (not all obviously but a lot of them) are following these leagues and hundreds of national teams games (world cup, Confed cup, Gold cup, Euro Cup, Cup qualifiers) on TV. Some religiously, some casually.

Soccer is not where it was in the '90s when even the world cups had low ratings and the haters said "world cup or not .. it's soccer. Americans just won't watch any soccer, the way they don't watch cricket, rugby and hockey world cups". Thanks to the youth soccer boom a decade earlier, the cable, internet, all the soccer exposuer on TV, some great storylines over the years, significant decrease in soccer bashing in the media etc. etc., ratings for all soccer properties kept growing leaps and bounds in this country. First, second and third generation Americans are helping the numbers too but the sport would be nowhere near the current level without significant support from the Caucasian Americans.

So yes, you have a large number of people watching soccer games on television... but it's not the same dynamic as local fans following their local teams in an American league.

Many Americans see the world cup and international soccer as the highest level of the sport (it actually IS with 1000+ of the best players in the world competing), a global league where we also have a local team (USA) competiting against 100's of other teams. The region where we play most often and qualify from (Concacaf) is our division like eastern, western divisions in NHL or conferences in other leagues (takes over 18 games to qualify). US plays about 40 games a year on average and draws about 700,000 on English lang. TV (excluding the world cup) and 40,000+ at the gate with an average ticket price of over $50. We also have a pretty big supporters group called the Sam's Army, attending every home games and also away games in smaller number. Nothing remotely close exists in other sports.

The demographics of MLS is not much different than that of most other sports. Hispanics make up only few percent more of the supporters than most other leagues. And not all the Caucasian American soccer fans follow the MLS because its not the best of soccer leagues like they are used to following in other sports. They follow Champions league, EPL etc., although lack of true rooting interest does stop them from becoming hardcore supporters of those leagues. They do flock to the stadiums (along with the 1st/2nd generation Americans) in big number every time teams from those leagues visit the US for exhibitions and other events.

 

[Rocket]

MLS ratings are not close to the NHL's (clearly not better). They are still far behind the major 4 sports.

I never argued otherwise. What I argued against was this sentence from your previous post

"In the grand scheme of things it IS a minor sport in terms of viewership."

That's an incredibly false statement. MLS ratings may be minor compared to others but it is only one of many soccer properties televised in the US year-round. You can't draw conclusion of soccer's viewership based on MLS ratings the way you can with NHL and hockey because NHL is pretty much the only thing hockey has.

It's as stupid as someone excluding all NHL playoff/winter classic numbers (because they bring out the casual and curious viewers in droves) and judging NHL's popularity by the regular season numbers on Versus only (which is very low compared to NBA, MLB and NFL).

Again, we are talking apples and oranges.

Exactly. Comparing MLS viewership with NHL (and drawing conclusion about the two sports, overall) is comparing apples and oranges.