Wow, NHL not going to the Olympics!!!

[SensHulk]

Too much blame going the NHL's way....

As a fan I'm pissed that the players didn't take the extension on the CBA in exchange for the olympics. That was ultimate win-win as a hockey fan.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

I think the timelines involved are much longer than what the the NHL employs when trying to evaluate impact.

You're looking at 15-20 year timeframes, not 5 years.

As someone who grew up in Germany, and played on an outdoor rink for HSV in Hamburg, where the team was half comprised of Scandanavians and Canadians, I've seen first-hand how a sport can grow within a lifetime. It's a completely different situation there now.

The Germans watched the World Championships religiously, even when they weren't very good. International sport matters a lot to most countries. Just not the United States.

This I very much resonate with , the hockey World Championship held each spring are huge pretty much all over Europe.

However it is a very different thing with South East Asian countries, including Australia where the interest in winter sports just doesn't appeal to the masses.

China is a completely different beast, with Northern China having a winter very similar to Canada. Couple that with the population of China it is easy to appreciate why the NHL believes exhibition games and the 2022 Olympics makes a great deal more sense in terms of shutting down their business.

At the same time I can understand the NHL players feeling its a missed opportunity not attending the Seoul Olympics.

However the players aren't the ones with millions invested in running the NHL business and there are very few of these players that will be around 15 - 20 years from now.

At the same time the NHL is having enough problems growing the game in NA and in several of the existing European hockey countries the spending on youth hockey is reportedly been reduced significantly and participation has dropped.

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Too much blame going the NHL's way....

As a fan I'm pissed that the players didn't take the extension on the CBA in exchange for the olympics. That was ultimate win-win as a hockey fan.

I agree the NHL is taking way too much blame, but I don't agree the players should have been held ransom by the NHL either.

When you consider only the elite of the NHL (top 10%) will attend the games, why should 90% of the players have to potentially suffer from an extension to the CBA?

 

[Holdurbreathe]

Agreed.

But hopefully they just reset to the traditional way next time around. Of course who knows if SEL and KHL players will give enough of a **** to come.

Well with the IOC and/or IIHF telling the NHL no Seoul, no China this battle has really just begun!!!

 

[Caeldan]

Can I ask a jerky question? It's been bugging me for a while and I can't come up with an answer.

Here it is:

People in support of NHL players going to the Olympics always talk about how it grows the game internationally and promotes hockey in non-traditional markets.
Is there any actual proof of that?

To me that seems like something that sounds like it makes sense but probably doesn't in real life. I have a feeling that hockey is about as popular as it ever will be. I know the NHL is keen to expand visibility in China, but for hockey to take off in a non-traditional market it takes a lot more than some kids watching the Olympics and wanting to play. It takes rinks. It takes equipment. It takes coaching, and league organization, and refs, and training, and Zambonis. All of this stuff costs a lot of money.


I just think this argument is a little bit of BS.

Thoughts?

There's a post somewhere in the main board about someone in SK who enjoys hockey, was looking forward to seeing the NHL players at the Olympics and how in SK they're just starting to get a weekly NHL game broadcast.

Can you explain in further detail of what you mean in point #2? The amateur class is the elite class? Sorry just a bit confused, not disagreeing.

Also, I mean the entire olympics are a bit of a sham nowadays it's why no one actually wants to spend the $ to host them anymore. Just an absolute waste of money and resources.

Nyquil mostly answered it already but...

Basically in order to maintain amateur status, you need to have family money or be extremely well connected to actually compete in your sport of choice. That or be a state sponsored athlete (see Quebec, Russia, China, NCAA is an equivalent private sponsorship)

If you're 'working class', you can't afford to work and train if you're not actually making money in the sport you're training for.

The whole 'Olympic Spirit' or 'Corinthian Spirit' was made up as a justification for the wealthy sportsmen to justify the amateur status requirement to keep the working class out of their games.

I have personal experience with it back when I was competing in a sport - basically because of amateur status requirements, I had to give up a sport I loved and was actually decent at, when I probably could have actually made enough to support my training. Instead my parents paid the bulk of my training until they couldn't afford it any longer and then it was time for me to go off to university.

 

[Tighthead]

Well, it was relevant in hockey when the Soviets were putting their "amateur" teams into Olympic and WHC competition in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s.

This idea that the Olympics were about the purity of sport because of the amateur status of the athletes was a pretty big joke.

But yes, the class-based argument is pretty much eroded away.



Well, you can blame the fans for that.

Every time there's a lockout we end up missing the sport and come back stronger than ever.

Those Russians were shamateurs and everyone knew it. They were full time hockey players paid by the Government.

I played rugby in the twilight of the amateur era. While the game had a great culture and spirit, the amateur code was outdated and also prone to abuse. It's roots of course were in keeping the game in the hands of the elite who could afford to play for free.

I'm a big golf fan and most of the amateurs who are celebrated this week at ANGC are full time golfers who will turn pro shortly and have a pro schedule mapped out. Still everyone will coo and fuss about the great amateur traditions. It's like old ladies gushing that the bride is wearing white when her 4 year old is the ring bearer.

 

[MarkStone]

The amateur code has always been a sham, whether it was keeping the working class out of sport/keeping it exclusively for the elite class, or stuffing money into the accounts of the governing bodies (IOC, NCAA some other examples I'm sure of that aren't immediately coming to mind).

 

[tony d]

Meh, I'm glad they're not going. Be nice to see some amateur hockey again and also no 2 week break in an already to long NHL season.

 

[NyQuil]

Meh, I'm glad they're not going. Be nice to see some amateur hockey again and also no 2 week break in an already to long NHL season.

I'm not sure what that means at this stage.

 

[Engineer]

I'm not sure what that means at this stage.

Doubt anybody that posts that has any clue what they mean either.

 

[Hutz]

This sucks. Screw you NHL.

 

[Ice-Tray]

I'm not a corporate or business sympathizer by any means, but as a fan with no cares either way this is how I see it:

It makes perfect sense why the NHL would not want to participate. They get absolutely nothing from the tournament save for potential injuries to their best players.

I don't think the olympics 'grows the game', it's not even NHL hockey. Playing NHL games in foreign countries though...

The olympics is one of the most corrupt sporting events after FIFA, and some fans here are mad at the NHL? Look, they asked for some compensation for putting their assets at risk at no cost to the IOC and were denied. Like usual, there's not a poster on here who would act differently in the same situation, but when nothing is on the line; rabblerouse!

Who cares about historical amateur status? The teams will be comprised of non NHL players, and fans will apply the same nationalist sentiments and enjoy the games. Let these lesser known players entertain our lust for national competition, it doesn't really matter.

 

[topshelf15]

I'm not a corporate or business sympathizer by any means, but as a fan with no cares either way this is how I see it:

It makes perfect sense why the NHL would not want to participate. They get absolutely nothing from the tournament save for potential injuries to their best players.

I don't think the olympics 'grows the game', it's not even NHL hockey. Playing NHL games in foreign countries though...

The olympics is one of the most corrupt sporting events after FIFA, and some fans here are mad at the NHL? Look, they asked for some compensation for putting their assets at risk at no cost to the IOC and were denied. Like usual, there's not a poster on here who would act differently in the same situation, but when nothing is on the line; rabblerouse!

Who cares about historical amateur status? The teams will be comprised of non NHL players, and fans will apply the same nationalist sentiments and enjoy the games. Let these lesser known players entertain our lust for national competition, it doesn't really matter.

Pretty much how i see it as well .The IOC wants NHL stars,then pay the NHL for their talent.As for the players threatening to just go regardless,they should remember whom made them stars as well as wealthy.

 

[Suiteness]

What's the biggest sporting event in the World? The World Cup of soccer. Nobody gives a fap about Soccer at the Olympics.

This an opportunity for the NHL to make the World Cup of hockey relevant and give a big middle finger to the IOC, IIHF or what have you.

The World Cup of hockey could be held every 2 years or 4 years, hosted by a different country. No more phony gimmick teams like team North America or Team Europe. Just make the damn thing a serious competition for the world's best hockey players and it will take off.

 

[Engineer]

What's the biggest sporting event in the World? The World Cup of soccer. Nobody much gives a fap about Soccer at the Olympics.

This an opportunity for the NHL to make the World Cup of hockey relevant and give a big middle finger to the IOC, IIHF or what have you.

The World Cup of hockey could be held every 2 years or 4 years, hosted by a different country. No more phony gimmick teams like team North America or Team Europe. Just make the damn thing a serious competition for the world's best hockey players and it will take off.

Why would it be good for hockey as a sport to have the NHL controlling the dominant international hockey tournament instead of a third party association such as the IIHF?

 

[Sens Rule]

I'm not on the IOC's side, I'm on the side of the players.

And the players want to go.

The players want to represent their country on the highest stage. It's important to them.

Sometimes people forget that hockey is a sport and that part of the history is international competition. People don't remember Paul Henderson because of his play in the NHL.

I think your argument regarding the players is a bit unfair. There's a lot of things that I do that I wouldn't if it cost me my job. Why does that have to be the price of going?

I'm old enough to be around before the NHLers participated in the Olympics. Personally, I thought it was a pretty big letdown by comparison.

The excitement of Nagano and the crushing disappointment, the vindication of 2002 in Salt Lake, the choke job of 2006 in Torino, followed by the Golden Goal in 2010 and then the dominance of 2014. Every Olympics has been a pretty amazing story. All of the excitement and controversy around the naming of the rosters. Seeing them alongside our other athletes in the Village.

I think we're getting pretty cynical around here and it's too bad.

Agreed. If somehow Ovechkin taking a huff and possibly leaving to the KHL to be eligible for the Olympics has the NHL and IIHF waiver and let Washington's ownership decide to let Ovechkin take 2 and half weeks off for the Olympics...

Then as a Sens fan I would want Karlsson to go as well and play for Sweden. And Stone if he would make Team Canada. Wideman if he made Team USA.

As a hockey fan I don't care if my teams stars leave for 6 or 7 games mid-season. It happens to the CHL during World Juniors every season.

This is unlikely to happen but the NHL is terribly damaged if Ovechkin pulls a Kovalchuk and takes his puck and goes home. So it is possible the NHL does not use it's hammer with the IIHF and then a ton of players do what Ovechkin did.

I know it is about money and power and whatever but Erik Karlsson should be in the Olympics. Lebron is Federer is Serena Williams is top PGA guys are in. 2.5 weeks every 4 years is well worth it just to keep Karlsson and Ovechkin and other superstars happy.

The IOC is corrupt and scummy as all heck but the players and fans still deserve to see this best on best. I like Bettman trying to get hockey into the Summer Olympics. Maybe that becomes doable in the future.

This happening after the NHL held the new World Cup but made it a joke with a Europe team and Under 23 team leaves a bad taste in my mouth. The NHL knows it may pull out of the Olympics and they organize a best on best and instead of making a real World Cup like in soccer or rugby they make essentially an all star game?

Knowing what they did about the Olympics the NHL should have had a 16 team real World Cup. Make it into something that matters and schedule one every 2 years or 4 years. Commit to it and realize Latvia vs Germany won't sell out the first few tournaments. But they went money grab and despite it actually being a really good tournament in terms of the games being exciting and great it was a totally forgetable tournament.

 

[Sens Rule]

I'm not sure what that means at this stage.

Maybe they need to make it an under 18 tournament. That is the only way you get actual amateurs and the only way the "best" of the best in each country can faceoff. It would just be the best 16 and 17 year olds.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Don't worry. I have a feeling this is just an NHL powerplay. We will see NHLers at the Olympics. Just hearing how they will still have summer camps and talk about revised schedules and all that.....yeah, they're going.

 

[Engineer]

Maybe they need to make it an under 18 tournament. That is the only way you get actual amateurs and the only way the "best" of the best in each country can faceoff. It would just be the best 16 and 17 year olds.

lol what a silly thing to do to enforce the outdated "amateur" idea.

 

[Sens Rule]

Pretty much how i see it as well .The IOC wants NHL stars,then pay the NHL for their talent.As for the players threatening to just go regardless,they should remember whom made them stars as well as wealthy.

The people to lobby are the big sponsors/advertisers like auto companies, Coke, McDonald's, American Express.

If Bettman got a few of those CEOs calling NBC and the IOC and saying that NHL player's not being there will significantly reduce viewership to one of the two premiere events of the Olympics. And say they have to consider of they are going to need to pay less for their advertisements. And propose letting the NHL use all the video they want to but have a Coke or McDonald's or whatever logo in the corner of all the videos the NHL uses.

That is a solution. Even if it would be hard to do. Bettman is certainly a big enough player to at least get the ear of some of the biggest sponsors of the Olympics. They all have deals with the NHL as well.

 

[Sens Rule]

lol what a silly thing to do to enforce the outdated "amateur" idea.

I don't think it is a great idea. But it would be the only way to actually have a best on best tournament where all countries are on equal footing.

It will literally be a joke if the top KHL players are facing the 1000th best Canadian players. Like Olympic hockey was prior to 1998.

 

[Tighthead]

NBC pays big money for the Olympics and a not insignificant amount of money for the NHL. They are one of the league's (owners and players) most important partners. I can't see them being pleased with this, and I can't see Bettman and the owners as being desirous of weakening the relationship.

As is always the case, follow the money.

 

[Suiteness]

Maybe they need to make it an under 18 tournament. That is the only way you get actual amateurs and the only way the "best" of the best in each country can faceoff. It would just be the best 16 and 17 year olds.

Again, I'd rip off what the Soccer world is doing. Soccer at the Olympics is a U-23 tournament that allows every team to have no more than three players over that age limit.

I don't care much for the 3 'veterans' rule but a U-23 tournament could be interesting. The NHL wouldn't need to shut down their business while the Olympics are going on since not THAT many teams would be penalized for missing a few players under the age of 23 every four years.

It would also make for a more competitive tournament.

 

[jason2020]

What's the biggest sporting event in the World? The World Cup of soccer. Nobody much gives a fap about Soccer at the Olympics.

This an opportunity for the NHL to make the World Cup of hockey relevant and give a big middle finger to the IOC, IIHF or what have you.

The World Cup of hockey could be held every 2 years or 4 years, hosted by a different country. No more phony gimmick teams like team North America or Team Europe. Just make the damn thing a serious competition for the world's best hockey players and it will take off.

Some have said that likely would lead to the end of the world championships.

 

[NyQuil]

I don't think it is a great idea. But it would be the only way to actually have a best on best tournament where all countries are on equal footing.

It will literally be a joke if the top KHL players are facing the 1000th best Canadian players. Like Olympic hockey was prior to 1998.

They don't all have equal footing because smaller countries are disproportionately impacted by the age restriction.

A team like Slovakia might be able to compete if they have access to 15 years worth of developed players.

If you allow them 2 years of players, they have no hope.

Some have said that likely would lead to the end of the world championships.

Not a chance.

The World Championships have been around since 1930 and is a massive tradition in Europe.

Aside from the Olympics, it's the most important hockey event over there, and you could argue that it's even more important because it's (almost) always held in Europe and fan support is such a big part of it.

I highly encourage anyone here to try to go if they get the chance. It's an amazing experience. I met so many people from other countries in the beer tent outside the arena - they're always curious about Canadian hockey and who we've heard of from their own countries. I went to the one held in Hannover, Germany and it was a blast.

I used to think the ideal situation was World Cup - World Championships - Olympics - World Championships on a rotating cycle, but the IIHF makes so much money from the WCs that they will even run them in years where the Olympics have taken place mere months before.

So it's likely that the WCs will continue at the same time every year, even if other tournaments exist.