Would you make a strong offer to Matt Niskanen this summer ?

[djpass]

Lets pretend that Bergevin trades Markov at the trade deadline in order to get a very decent return. The Habs would still need to somehow fill that gap on defence going forward.

I know that Subban is the #1 priority to sign after the deadline and for a substantial sum of money, but if the Habs felt they could pay Markov in the $6 million range on a year by year basis within the cap, then they certainly can use money in that range on someone else.

Which brings me to this.... as a plan B to compensate Markov's loss, even if it's far from done no matter how hard you try, would you try to make a strong push to get Matt Niskanen on the UFA market ?

If so, how high would you go up to in terms of money and number of years given to a right handed defenseman like Niskanen ?

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[Blind Gardien]

I just think the bidding on the better UFAs will be wild, and the odds of getting specific players you target are not great. I know Niskanen has looked good this year, but other years he has looked a lot more generic... I wouldn't push past $5Mx5 for him, and I would feel strongly like that would not result in him signing here.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

If we deal Markov I think Campbell would be a better replacement if the Panthers don't ask for too much in return.

Niskanen is having a great season, playing top minutes for the Pens and has even played on the #1 pp untit even when Letang was playing. The only problem I have with him is I think he is having a season he might never have again. Solid player, great shot but not sure I'd go more then 4.5 per

 

[Monctonscout]

Lets pretend that Bergevin trades Markov at the trade deadline in order to get a very decent return. The Habs would still need to somehow fill that gap on defence going forward.

I know that Subban is the #1 priority to sign after the deadline and for a substantial sum of money, but if the Habs felt they could pay Markov in the $6 million range on a year by year basis within the cap, then they certainly can use money in that range on someone else.

Which brings me to this.... as a plan B to compensate Markov's loss, even if it's far from done no matter how hard you try, would you try to make a strong push to get Matt Niskanen on the UFA market ?

If so, how high would you go up to in terms of money and number of years given to a right handed defenseman like Niskanen ?

He's this year's Wideman Garrison Ehrhoff or Wisniewski, will end up getting 5-6 mil for 5-7 years from a desperate team and play like a 4 mil/year player.

I'd overpay for 1st line sniper(Vanek) not a #4 d-man.

 

[Monctonscout]

If we deal Markov I think Campbell would be a better replacement if the Panthers don't ask for too much in return.

Niskanen is having a great season, playing top minutes for the Pens and has even played on the #1 pp untit even when Letang was playing. The only problem I have with him is I think he is having a season he might never have again. Solid player, great shot but not sure I'd go more then 4.5 per

Campbell has a 7.2 or 7.3 mil cap hit.

Niskanen will end up around 5.5 mil/year over a long term deal...will look bad in 1-2 years.

 

[djpass]

I just think the bidding on the better UFAs will be wild, and the odds of getting specific players you target are not great. I know Niskanen has looked good this year, but other years he has looked a lot more generic... I wouldn't push past $5Mx5 for him, and I would feel strongly like that would not result in him signing here.

Yeah the most annoying part of UFAs is giving the kind of terms you would never do in other circumstances.

I guess I was really wondering that if a faded version of Markov at 35 can be worth around $6 million per year for the next 3 years, is a 27 year old guy like Niskanen worth close to the same for possibly twice the amount of years ?

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Campbell has a 7.2 or 7.3 mil cap hit.

Niskanen will end up around 5.5 mil/year over a long term deal...will look bad in 1-2 years.

I don't care about Campbell's cap hit, it's a little more then the 6 million Markov would get and he's younger

As for Niskanen he might get that much from a desperate team, I wouldn't offer anything over 4.5 per as I said

 

[djpass]

He's this year's Wideman Garrison Ehrhoff or Wisniewski, will end up getting 5-6 mil for 5-7 years from a desperate team and play like a 4 mil/year player.

I'd overpay for 1st line sniper(Vanek) not a #4 d-man.

I tend to agree with you. Still, he could make a good trio on the PP with Subban & Beaulieu. Right handed D, only 27.

I guess the real question is how high will the cap go in 3-4 years. If it does reach around $80-85 million, then even lesser players will every now and then hit the jackpot.

 

[Dominator13]

I wouldn't. I would keep the cap space and litteraly give the #7 D spot to Magnus Nygren and hope for the best like we did with both Streit and Diaz. He has the potential to be a good one.

 

[Kriss E]

People have to stop thinking you can get away with not overpaying on the open market.
You want to sign free agents, then get ready to dish out well above value cash. That is the norm for the UFA market.
That said, I don't think I'd go after him.

We need some savvy GM-ing if you don't want to go through that. We need to get the good deals. The Gilbert-Jagr-MacArthur type deals.

 

[Monctonscout]

I don't care about Campbell's cap hit, it's a little more then the 6 million Markov would get and he's younger

As for Niskanen he might get that much from a desperate team, I wouldn't offer anything over 4.5 per as I said

Florida won't just give away their top d-man...so not only are you spending 1.142 mi more but you also have to give up assets. Markov just needs a signature.

I tend to agree with you. Still, he could make a good trio on the PP with Subban & Beaulieu. Right handed D, only 27.

I guess the real question is how high will the cap go in 3-4 years. If it does reach around $80-85 million, then even lesser players will every now and then hit the jackpot.

Niskanen is still worth nowhere close to what I see him getting this summer...around 5.5/year over 5-7 years.

I wouldn't. I would keep the cap space and litteraly give the #7 D spot to Magnus Nygren and hope for the best like we did with both Streit and Diaz. He has the potential to be a good one.

Yeah I'd love to have Nygren in the mix next year...

Subban-Gorges
Markov-Emelin

Pateryn-Beaulieu
Tinordi-Nygren

Drewiske?

 

[djpass]

He's this year's Wideman Garrison Ehrhoff or Wisniewski, will end up getting 5-6 mil for 5-7 years from a desperate team and play like a 4 mil/year player.

I'd overpay for 1st line sniper(Vanek) not a #4 d-man.

If still available, seems like many will overbid for Girardi and I wouldn't give him the moon either.

Niskanen on a 2nd pair at 5 on 5 and the 1st unit on the PP with Subban could consistently rake in 35 points a year.

If the cap is at $80-85 in a couple of years, then $5-5.5 million / year for such a guy...isn't overpaying at the end of the day. It will become good market value.

 

[Monctonscout]

People have to stop thinking you can get away with not overpaying on the open market.
You want to sign free agents, then get ready to dish out well above value cash. That is the norm for the UFA market.
That said, I don't think I'd go after him.

We need some savvy GM-ing if you don't want to go through that. We need to get the good deals. The Gilbert-Jagr-MacArthur type deals.

I agree with your last line, however often, those players take less to go somewhere where they an play a bigger role. Gilbert would be #4 here but he I top pair in Florid...helps him go for big money this summer. MacArthur would be a better fit than Briere.

 

[Habs 4 Life]

Florida won't just give away their top d-man...so not only are you spending 1.142 mi more but you also have to give up assets. Markov just needs a signature.

Markov is slowing down and in the next 2-3 years his play is not going to get better. Gotta be careful with that as well

 

[Kriss E]

I agree with your last line, however often, those players take less to go somewhere where they an play a bigger role. Gilbert would be #4 here but he I top pair in Florid...helps him go for big money this summer. MacArthur would be a better fit than Briere.

If Mtl offered him 1.5M instead of 900K, or even 2M, I'm pretty sure Gilbert would have come here.
Gilbert didn't take less in order to play a bigger role, he took whatever he could find.

Gilbert was signed on September 28th, just a week before the season started. He was invited to a pro tryout during camp. So no, he didn't take less to go play a bigger role. The guy was desperate and took all he could get.

 

[Draft]

I'd go for Mark Fayne. Decent shutdown/all around guy with pretty good size and ability. He's good defensively and has a good outlet pass. He's nothing special but he would fill that RD spot and likely won't cost a lot.

 

[attachetatuque]

as much as I fancy Niskanen as a defenseman, I'm not sure he's what we need. I'd rather a physical presence than another puck-mover. Girardi (yeah I know...not going to happen) is a much better fit on this team going forward than Niskanen. I think that if we are going to pay big bucks to bring in someone, I'd rather spend the cash on a talent up front rather than a 2b or 3rd blue liner.

the only way I see it work is if we somehow swapped Gorges for Niskanen and filled the hole next to Subban with ideally Girardi or a similar guy.

Subban-Girardi
Niskanen-Emelin
Beaulieu-Tinordi/X
X/Tinordi

(salivating...)

(yes I am of the school of thought that think we NEED to trade Markov)

 

[djpass]

We need some savvy GM-ing if you don't want to go through that. We need to get the good deals. The Gilbert-Jagr-MacArthur type deals.

You're right but at the same time good deals don't remain good deals as time go by since these players eventually will ask to cash in anyways. If you want to keep them long enough, you'll be stuck again unless you often change your roster.

 

[Kriss E]

You're right but at the same time good deals don't remain good deals as time go by since these players eventually will ask to cash in anyways. If you want to keep them long enough, you'll be stuck again unless you often change your roster.

There is no point in committing ourselves long term to a player we don't really believe will be part of our core. If we do believe he'll be a big part of it, then it shouldn't be an issue to commit. Depth players do not need to be locked up long term.

 

[Monctonscout]

Markov is slowing down and in the next 2-3 years his play is not going to get better. Gotta be careful with that as well

Markov is better this year than last year. He hasn't slowed that much. 2 years at 1-11.5 mil is a minimal risk. Based on his role, minutes and production, this year he's played like a 6.5-7 mil d-man.

If Mtl offered him 1.5M instead of 900K, or even 2M, I'm pretty sure Gilbert would have come here.
Gilbert didn't take less in order to play a bigger role, he took whatever he could find.

Gilbert was signed on September 28th, just a week before the season started. He was invited to a pro tryout during camp. So no, he didn't take less to go play a bigger role. The guy was desperate and took all he could get.

Gilbert took that late because the long term deal he wanted wasn't there. We had already signed Murray and had 8 guys on 1 way deals. He could have probably gotten a lot more earlier in the summer but with so little cap space available after the first UFA wave money dried up.

I'd go for Mark Fayne. Decent shutdown/all around guy with pretty good size and ability. He's good defensively and has a good outlet pass. He's nothing special but he would fill that RD spot and likely won't cost a lot.

We already have Murray Emelin and Gorges in that role, he'd be in the press box.

 

[Draft]

We already have Murray Emelin and Gorges in that role, he'd be in the press box.

Obviously Murray is gone during the offseason and Fayne would be his more mobile, right handed, less physical replacement. Even then, he might not have a place if Pateryn's puck moving ability has really improved along with his stats. We have four NHL ready defenceman.... it's kind of hard to sign anyone that isn't well above average.

 

[Price is Wright]

Say we trade Markov with nobody coming back.

We're now Subban/Gorges/Emelin/Tinordi/Beaulieu/Pateryn/Drewskie.

Guys like Niskanen and Girardi are going to cost a lot.

If we didn't have so many lefties I'd consider Nikita Nikitin. Big Russian, still young, looks like he has more to show.

Be funny if the Habs also got rid of Gorges and then signed Nikitin and Belov. Three big Russians on the left.

 

[Fazkovsky]

Yes, unless we give a chance to Nygren which I wouldnt be against.

 

[Monctonscout]

If still available, seems like many will overbid for Girardi and I wouldn't give him the moon either.

Niskanen on a 2nd pair at 5 on 5 and the 1st unit on the PP with Subban could consistently rake in 35 points a year.

If the cap is at $80-85 in a couple of years, then $5-5.5 million / year for such a guy...isn't overpaying at the end of the day. It will become good market value.

With guys like Subban Beaulieu Nygren plus Thrower and Bennett on the way, no way the Habs should overpay for a PMD. Not on a 5-7 year deal. Niskanen will be unteadeable once he gets a Wisniewski type contract.

Markov is slowing down and in the next 2-3 years his play is not going to get better. Gotta be careful with that as well

Markov at 80% is still better than anybody you can sign at ridiculous money to replace him.

 

[Burke the Legend]

Markov is still roughly as effective as someone like Niskanen or Gilbert, and it's guaranteed Markov signs here for 2-3 years while there's no guarantee you sign those guys (could easily be 15-20 teams chasing them with cap going up), and if you do sign them it would be on some absurd 5-7 year contract. Markov is clearly still the lowest risk, best contract option, yes he is not getting any better, but he's not BAD, and the alternatives carry huge risk, for at best a marginal performance upgrade.