Would ECHL players rather keep playing pro hockey through summer?

[JMCx4]

I'm wondering if a professional league existed in Southern Patagonia during the Southern Hemisphere Winter (late April - early Sept) would ECHL players be interested in playing being they are on 1yr contracts? ...

Shame on us, we got wrapped up in trivial matters. The answer is: "Not enough to ice one team."

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Then I think you need to be contacting the PHPA, league offices, etc., instead of posting on a message board. Just a thought.

Fair thought, and has been done. I spoke to PHPA months back and since ECHL is 1yr contract they would be feasible. Figured the may be some ECHL guys on here. I DMd one too asking to which I got a response like "ya that sounds cool. I play competitive inline hockey in summer But I'd be interested and others probably would too" . Looking for other perspective on summer labor market for A/AA pro hockey labor

That being said, the thread title isn't a complicated question..

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Shame on us, we got wrapped up in trivial matters. The answer is: "Not enough to ice one team."

Thanks for feedback

 

[Captain Crash]

So are we all just going to keep replying to this thread without acknowledging at all that this league could be the perfect opportunity for Manchester to get a new pro team?

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Well if the money is right they would happy to keep playing hockey if it's a game every 3-3.5 days instead of 2.5 or so that the ECHL is.

Would they rather want to make $22/hr doing landscaping or would they like to make $3,000/mo USD (gross) and live where their financial overhead is $1000 USD/mo? They can bank $8000 over course of 4mos? trade offs..

I'd rather keep playing even if it meant a requirement for games to be 3.5 day avg break. That way everyone can be a tourist too and enjoy life a little more than they would in ECHL which is a go-go league as one of you said. There are ways around a lot of your objections. But I get it, it's radical, therefore it will be scrutinized.

I'm more concerned about the potential available player pool as the thread title states.

Argentina is a second-world country. It doesn't need the fully enclosed arena when climate is sufficient for open-air during the cold season. Saves on costs of course being a dry tundra climate of the Patagonia Steppe. The Andes mountains produce a rainshadow effect for settlements east so the major settlements in region are relatively dry through the winter.

All the biz model stuff is irrelevant though. I'm wondering if ECHL is a viable labor pool? I know it's easy to want to knock people down and call them morons, but there is a price for everything, and a talent base of good AA from across Northern leagues would be a top 10 league in world. ECHL is arguably top 10 and with such a bigger labor pool, in theory, I could select the best from such AA leagues across Northern hemisphere and have a top 7/8 league in world all for a relative cheap price of $10mm USD.

Addressing the labor side of things and completely ignoring the baffling lack of informed and rational thinking by you on the business side.

A league in Patagonia (of all places) would draw *beyond negligible.* The ECHL and SPHL have some of the toughest travel on the planet. Extremely physical games with frequent, long road trips predominantly by bus. The last thing 99.99% of them want to do is play more games. They need to let the body rest, and the vast majority of them do. Check out the summer training program for any ECHL or SPHL player. Most don't skate until late July by design. The money you're offering they can make working camps, summer coaching, skills coaching, personal trainer, etc. These guys aren't dropping their sticks after their last game and having to pick up a garden hoe to make ends meet and I have no idea where you would even begin to think they do.

Could be a junior league too if at all possible. JUNIOR A/B type players... CHL wouldn't allow it I'd think. Albeit ECHL being a top 10 world league and JR A/B would be a ways down that line, but more a development league than a true pro league the ECHL level warrants

You call yourselves hockey fans but you're not interested in innovative ways to grow the game to new regions that have a true winter climate because they are too poor to sustain ice rinks free an innovative business strategy?

We're not interested in ways that don't stand up to even the tiniest bit of scrutiny.

Half the things you're saying makes it sound like you're looking for investors... "I'll be down there doing abc..." lol yeah no you won't, because not a single facet of your lunacy is based in reality!

Well if the money is right they would happy to keep playing hockey if it's a game every 3-3.5 days instead of 2.5 or so that the ECHL is.

Would they rather want to make $22/hr doing landscaping or would they like to make $3,000/mo USD (gross) and live where their financial overhead is $1000 USD/mo? They can bank $8000 over course of 4mos? trade offs..

I'd rather keep playing even if it meant a requirement for games to be 3.5 day avg break. That way everyone can be a tourist too and enjoy life a little more than they would in ECHL which is a go-go league as one of you said. There are ways around a lot of your objections. But I get it, it's radical, therefore it will be scrutinized.

No one, not even Connor McDavid, is skating more than 9 months out of the year. Rerun whatever stimulations you did to take out players playing year round. That's why the AIHL has trouble attracting talent. No one minor pro hockey player wants to play year round. I offer that out of personal experience, something you clearly don't have on the ice or in the front office.

So are we all just going to keep replying to this thread without acknowledging at all that this league could be the perfect opportunity for Manchester to get a new pro team?

My fault, I left him tethered to the bounce house again...

Hey, @CANADIENSFAN90, come out and play. We found someone more detached from reality then you

 

[GindyDraws]

You call yourselves hockey fans but you're not interested in innovative ways to grow the game to new regions that have a true winter climate because they are too poor to sustain ice rinks free an innovative business strategy?

Because you don't even care about things like logistics or the human body. You just go "Hey, if I build it, they will come!"

I could put an arena football league in Slovenia... and fail miserably. Because there is almost no infrastructure in Slovenia for it, nor would they have an understanding of what I'm trying to do.

You see what I'm getting at? One of the key tenets of market research is knowing if there is a demand. Sure, you could, in theory, create demand, but that requires a lot of your own capital, and it seems like you're unwilling to do so. You just assume that there is a bunch of people stupid enough to play 7-8 months of hockey in the States, jump on a plane to Buenos Aries, then go down to the backwaters near Antarctica and play a few more months of hockey, hop back on a plane to the States, then do it all over again.

Thanks for feedback

Well, whether or not it sticks to your head, is up to you.

 

[battra]

I think there would be plenty of SPHL players willing to play in worst case. ECHL obv a step up.

It's an adventure. These are young guys in their 20s, live a little. When else would you ever have a reason to go to the opposite end of the world rather than euro. Cars/Trucks would be provided much like any euro league

Veteran limits are even more stringent in the SPHL....l

 

[Sanf]

I'm more concerned about the potential available player pool as the thread title states.

Just answering for this. If you in alternative universe could build this league your player pool would not be ECHL. They are already living their love of hockey "professional dream". Your player pool would be players that can´t be pro in elsewhere. I mean sure you would get some hockey adventurers to join that league if you have housing for them and give them bit of salary. And fly them to there because they can´t afford. And try out would be must because you would get really mixed level of talents there. But yes I have known few amateur players that have lived their pro adventure in smaller hockey countrys.

Though even if you would get ECHL level players there I´m not sure why would locals come to watch this showcasing of ice hockey with foreign mercenarys. With no local attachment. I think you miss some of the points why people are sport crazy and goes to watch their local team.

I think building any kind of basic hockey infrastucture and launching any sort of clubs where you can experience hockey would be more beneficial for hockey in there.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

Just answering for this. If you in alternative universe could build this league your player pool would not be ECHL. They are already living their love of hockey "professional dream". Your player pool would be players that can´t be pro in elsewhere. I mean sure you would get some hockey adventurers to join that league if you have housing for them and give them bit of salary. And fly them to there because they can´t afford. And try out would be must because you would get really mixed level of talents there. But yes I have known few amateur players that have lived their pro adventure in smaller hockey countrys.

Though even if you would get ECHL level players there I´m not sure why would locals come to watch this showcasing of ice hockey with foreign mercenarys. With no local attachment. I think you miss some of the points why people are sport crazy and goes to watch their local team.

I think building any kind of basic hockey infrastucture and launching any sort of clubs where you can experience hockey would be more beneficial for hockey in there.

Outdoor roller hockey rinks would get built first to let hockey culture marinate over course of 10-15yrs. Maybe an adult and a kids rink on each side of city. $100k per twin rinks with floodlights and grandstands to make it feel "big time", akin to Rucker Park in NYC for basketball. multiply by 8 would be $800k that acts as the foundation to build hockey. Ice infrastructure would come many years after this. The idea would be to drive competitive roller hockey to the point where it make sense to build ice infrastructure as a logical next step. Of which, a base has been built, and although there may a gap in talent level it would be much smaller than had high quality roller rinks not been built. Would be foreign to start most likely but over time would get diminished as kids in region have been playing competive pickup roller hockey for a decade at least prior. A natural bridge if you will.

If and when outdoor rinks get built, would pack a sea container full of used blades and outdoor stick for kids/youth (u14) and flood market for cheap or maybe free even. 15 and over would have the basics available too but at more full sale price. That's how hockey would get its Jumpstart down there. Costs about 15k to get a sea container from Montreal to Buenos Aires and trucked two days to Ushuaia at very tip of SA.

Not necessarily specific to ECHL, but maybe curious about potential northern hemisphere A/AA labor pool during our summer. The euro leagues play 52 games vs 72 for ECHL (sans euro competitions).

The revenue side would come from media rights, streaming to Northern hemisphere. National sponsorship as well. I'd goto someone like Starlink for title sponsorship if it was today. Streaming free for all Latin American IP addresses. Tickets would be dirt cheap for locals. It's more important that people show up then extracting money from them. Seating bowl would be 3/4 standing room and maybe a club side with seating and a cantilever roof over top. The idea is to bring hockey back to the time when it was for the "working man". Cheap, get in the door prices for a great atmosphere that only Argentinian know how to pull off.

League would fund junior leagues and a development tree. Recruit from roller hockey rinks in region but also plant them elsewhere in country overtime. USD goes far down there

 

[jabberoski]

Outdoor roller hockey rinks would get built first to let hockey culture marinate over course of 10-15yrs. Maybe an adult and a kids rink on each side of city. $100k per twin rinks with floodlights and grandstands to make it feel "big time", akin to Rucker Park in NYC for basketball. multiply by 8 would be $800k that acts as the foundation to build hockey. Ice infrastructure would come many years after this. The idea would be to drive competitive roller hockey to the point where it make sense to build ice infrastructure as a logical next step. Of which, a base has been built, and although there may a gap in talent level it would be much smaller than had high quality roller rinks not been built. Would be foreign to start most likely but over time would get diminished as kids in region have been playing competive pickup roller hockey for a decade at least prior. A natural bridge if you will.

If and when outdoor rinks get built, would pack a sea container full of used blades and outdoor stick for kids/youth (u14) and flood market for cheap or maybe free even. 15 and over would have the basics available too but at more full sale price. That's how hockey would get its Jumpstart down there. Costs about 15k to get a sea container from Montreal to Buenos Aires and trucked two days to Ushuaia at very tip of SA.

Not necessarily specific to ECHL, but maybe curious about potential northern hemisphere A/AA labor pool during our summer. The euro leagues play 52 games vs 72 for ECHL (sans euro competitions).

The revenue side would come from media rights, streaming to Northern hemisphere. National sponsorship as well. I'd goto someone like Starlink for title sponsorship if it was today. Streaming free for all Latin American IP addresses. Tickets would be dirt cheap for locals. It's more important that people show up then extracting money from them. Seating bowl would be 3/4 standing room and maybe a club side with seating and a cantilever roof over top. The idea is to bring hockey back to the time when it was for the "working man". Cheap, get in the door prices for a great atmosphere that only Argentinian know how to pull off.

League would fund junior leagues and a development tree. Recruit from roller hockey rinks in region but also plant them elsewhere in country overtime. USD goes pretty far down there..

Could even approach big soccer clubs like Boca, River Plate, Racing, Colo-Colo for an owner-operator lease model similar to what the MLS is. Attach big brand names to clubs. Could probably auction these off to pre-approved clubs when infrastructure gets built out.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

On a board filled with poorly thought-out and financially unviable pie-in-the-sky fanboi expansionist crackpot schemes, we may have found the bottom of the intellectual toilet that is expansionism.

This scheme is so absurd, so economically unviable, so crazy, that the only thing it might be missing is the placement of teams in Portland, Maine and Manchester, New Hampshire to appease the craziest of those who feel the need to spew their schemes here.

Which is not to say I don't think the game should grow internationally. It should. Hockey should be played everywhere possible. Every kid should be able to learn the game the world over. But that doesn't mean that it's financially feasible or even possible.

 

[Bubbrubb231]

On a board filled with poorly thought-out and financially unviable pie-in-the-sky fanboi expansionist crackpot schemes, we may have found the bottom of the intellectual toilet that is expansionism.

This scheme is so absurd, so economically unviable, so crazy, that the only thing it might be missing is the placement of teams in Portland, Maine and Manchester, New Hampshire to appease the craziest of those who feel the need to spew their schemes here.

Which is not to say I don't think the game should grow internationally. It should. Hockey should be played everywhere possible. Every kid should be able to learn the game the world over. But that doesn't mean that it's financially feasible or even possible.

Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective, moreso trying to understand the A/AA global labor market and what is attainable as a talent level.

If a million dollars is alot of money to you then yes probably economically unviable

 

[battra]

I like the word Patagonia.

 

[Barclay Donaldson]

Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective, moreso trying to understand the A/AA global labor market and what is attainable as a talent level.

If a million dollars is alot of money to you then yes probably economically unviable

You've already been told no one would want to play in this league in the middle of nowhere after a grueling season, how a negligible amount of potential pro players want to play year round let alone need to play year round, let alone how nonsensical any of the economics of it are.

Close this thread up, there is absolutely nothing going on here and even less going on inside your head.

 

[Roadhog]

I like the word Patagonia.

Rhymes with bologna, which perfectly describes this thread.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

You've already been told no one would want to play in this league in the middle of nowhere after a grueling season, how a negligible amount of potential pro players want to play year round let alone need to play year round, let alone how nonsensical any of the economics of it are.

Close this thread up, there is absolutely nothing going on here and even less going on inside your head.

Imagine what kind of drugs you'd have to take to think that after taking the physical beating of a 72-game ECHL season, guys are going to get on a 15-hour flight to play in South American and likely face worst travel, worse medical care, worse officiating, and a higher risk of injury for the same or less money.

I just searched kayak.com for a one-way ticket from Toronto to Ushuaia 10 days from now. Such a ticket is between $750 with two stops up to $5,000. The average Double-A hockey team probably goes through at least 40 players per season. No player is going to pay their own travel to South America, so you're looking at $100,000 minimum per team per season just to get the players for one team down there.

And that's after you cough up millions to build rinks in a country that doesn't have them, doesn't play hockey, and doesn't have the economy or population base to support a league paying salaries and benefits comparable to the ECHL.

This is beyond stupid.

But hey, maybe this league will put a team in Manchester!

 

[JMCx4]

I like the word Patagonia.

Rhymes with bologna, which perfectly describes this thread.

You Canadian dudes are weird. Since when has "baloney" EVER rhymed with "Patagonia"???

 

[Roadhog]

You Canadian dudes are weird. Since when has "baloney" EVER rhymed with "Patagonia"???

 

[Sanf]

Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective, moreso trying to understand the A/AA global labor market and what is attainable as a talent level.

If a million dollars is alot of money to you then yes probably economically unviable

Outside of the very top of the ice hockey pyramid million dollars is a lot of money. And we are really talking about that very small sand dust in the top of the pyramid.

To this day we haven´t yet haven´t had functional womens hockey pro league. For decades and decades we have tried in Europe to have a European club competition. Now we have something that have managed to be alive for while, but still the interest is not that huge. NHL expanding to Europe has been talked from early 1970´s even in some semiserious talks. But even today it is just a pipe dream.

Keeping in mind all of that this is not very realistic? That hockey in Southern Patagonia would be something that would atract people, players and most importantly sponsors/investors that would be ready to throw millions and millions for this project.

If I would have million of spare money to help hockey in Argentina I would do it in very different way.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

Outside of the very top of the ice hockey pyramid million dollars is a lot of money. And we are really talking about that very small sand dust in the top of the pyramid.

To this day we haven´t yet haven´t had functional womens hockey pro league. For decades and decades we have tried in Europe to have a European club competition. Now we have something that have managed to be alive for while, but still the interest is not that huge. NHL expanding to Europe has been talked from early 1970´s even in some semiserious talks. But even today it is just a pipe dream.

Keeping in mind all of that this is not very realistic? That hockey in Southern Patagonia would be something that would atract people, players and most importantly sponsors/investors that would be ready to throw millions and millions for this project.

If I would have million of spare money to help hockey in Argentina I would do it in very different way.

The average income per capita in Argentina is around $4,500/year.

Hard to buy hockey tickets when you can barely afford to live.

 

[JMCx4]

The average income per capita in Argentina is around $4,500/year.

Hard to buy hockey tickets when you can barely afford to live.

The brainchild behind this scheme has that all covered, by virtue of: "Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective ..."

 

[battra]

Rhymes with bologna, which perfectly describes this thread.

Balonia?

Lionel Messi is from Patagonia (or he's Patagonian adjacent)...

He's won the Balon d'Orr and the Golden Boot.

He wouldn't play in this league.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

The brainchild behind this scheme has that all covered, by virtue of: "Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective ..."

Pie-in-the-sky fanboi expansionists rarely do!

 

[GindyDraws]

The brainchild behind this scheme has that all covered, by virtue of: "Haven't really even touched on any of the economics past a cursory perspective ..."

It's not that he hasn't touched the economics, more that he doesn't care. To him, it's all annoying busy work that gets in the way of the fun stuff.

 

[CrazyEddie20]

It's not that he hasn't touched the economics, more that he doesn't care. To him, it's all annoying busy work that gets in the way of the fun stuff.

Wait until he finds out how much the worker's comp insurance will cost. Who knows, it may not even be available at all down there. Since they don't have professional hockey, insurers won't have any idea how to price out coverage.