Would another Rocket this year cement OV as the GOAT Goal-scorer?

[Varan]

Simple question

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[JT Kreider]

He's the best goal scorer of this generation and that's all that matters. It's so hard to compare across other eras.

 

[illpucks]

Simple question

Why ask after he is injured? Laine gets 3 in 2 and Ovi sits and it's a wrap.
William Karlsson gets 4 in 2 and HFboards crashes.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

No. If he loses it this year, he will go down in history as the most feeble goal scorer ever.

 

[DitchMarner]

Is he definitely done for the season?

 

[bring back the jets]

No. I personally think he is but to "cement" the title, he needs to at least rival Waynes career goals imo.

 

[Sentinel]

He is injured? Link, please?

 

[Balance]

He already is the greatest goal scorer of all time

The goalies in the 80s and before that were complete jokes. The stand up style was so easy to score on hence the increased scoring.

 

[illpucks]

He is injured? Link, please?

Ovechkin could miss next Capitals game against Predators

 

[Midnight Judges]

Eh maybe. I think players should be compared to their peers and generally we should assume competition is relatively stable with modern players getting a tie breaker due to greater competition.

7 ties Ovie with Bobby Hull and I think Ovie gets the tie breaker.

But leading the league in goals is just one metric. There is also goal scoring longevity to consider - which Ovechkin has demonstrated with amazing consistency. He is currently 7th all time era-adjusted goals, and he tops Bobby Hull in the same number of seasons, but is only 75% of the way towards topping Gordie Howe (who has become criminally underrated among some fans).

If Ovechkin ties or tops Hull in rockets, and tops Howe in era adjusted goals, he will be the greatest goal scorer of all time IMO and it will be extremely difficult for anyone to argue otherwise. Until then, he is one of a very elite group of players who can be in this discussion: Gretzky, Howe, Hull, Ovechkin. Nobody else. People who prioritize pace will make a case for Lemieux, but he is second tier.

Ovechkin also has the 2nd best goal scoring season of all time, trailing only Brett Hull.

Era Adjusted: Greatest NHL goal-scoring seasons of all-time - Sportsnet.ca

Also, since 2012, only one player has topped 50 goals. Ovechkin is that guy and he's done it 3 times. That's pretty nuts.

Ovechkin also has 47% more goals than Crosby, and Crosby is no slouch, and the second best since the lockout. Other players have approached Ovechkin's goal scoring for periods of time but none have come close to sustaining it for 13 years. This is where Ovechkin trounces Stamkos and Kovalchuk.

In short, he's got a helluva case brewing but there is still an argument for other players. One more richard after this year OR if he tops Howe in era-adjusted goals, the case will be closed IMO.

 

[Sentinel]

To answer your question: no. He is always in the conversation for the "Best Regular Season" scorer, bypassing everyone not named "Wayne" or "Mike" (and that includes "Bobby," which is no small feat). But the "GOAT Goalscorer" involves a factor of clutch / playoff scoring, and this is where Ovechkin is severely lagging to SEVEN other superb goalscorers.

 

[AcerComputer]

If he scores 93, then maybe.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

Eh maybe. I think players should be compared to their peers and generally we should assume competition is relatively stable with modern players getting a tie breaker due to greater competition.

7 ties Ovie with Bobby Hull and I think Ovie gets the tie breaker.

But leading the league in goals is just one metric. There is also goal scoring longevity to consider - which Ovechkin has demonstrated with amazing consistency. He is currently 7th all time era-adjusted goals, and he tops Bobby Hull in the same number of seasons, but is only 75% of the way towards topping Gordie Howe (who has become criminally underrated among some fans).

If Ovechkin ties or tops Hull in rockets, and tops Howe in era adjusted goals, he will be the greatest goal scorer of all time IMO and it will be extremely difficult for anyone to argue otherwise. Until then, he is one of a very elite group of players who can be in this discussion: Gretzky, Howe, Hull, Ovechkin. Nobody else. People who prioritize pace will make a case for Lemieux, but he is second tier.

Ovechkin also has the 2nd best goal scoring season of all time, trailing only Brett Hull.

Era Adjusted: Greatest NHL goal-scoring seasons of all-time - Sportsnet.ca

Also, since 2012, only one player has topped 50 goals. Ovechkin is that guy and he's done it 3 times. That's pretty nuts.

Ovechkin also has 47% more goals than Crosby, and Crosby is no slouch, and the second best since the lockout. Other players have approached Ovechkin's goal scoring for periods of time but none have come close to sustaining it for 13 years. This is where Ovechkin trounces Stamkos and Kovalchuk.

In short, he's got a helluva case brewing but there is still an argument for other players. One more richard after this year OR if he tops Howe in era-adjusted goals, the case will be closed IMO.

-He doesnt even have Lemieux's best year, those era adjusted stats are wrong. Lemieux scored 69 goals in 60 games total in 92-93. If you are going to era adjust, you have to also factor in the number of games played in the season. Lemieux had 160 points in 60 games in that year. That is the highest points per game era adjusted all time hands down.

 

[Midnight Judges]

-He doesnt even have Lemieux's best year, those era adjusted stats are wrong. Lemieux scored 69 goals in 60 games total in 92-93. If you are going to era adjust, you have to also factor in the number of games played in the season. Lemieux had 160 points in 60 games in that year. That is the highest points per game era adjusted all time hands down.

If you want to make special concessions for Lemieux based on smaller sample sizes, you'd have to do the same for everyone. There are some pretty insane goal scoring stretches for Ovechkin.

Goal scoring was 33.46% higher in 92-93 than it was in 2012-13. 46 goals in 60 games from Ovechkin during that time would equal Lemieux. Ovechkin scored 48 goal in 50 games during the shortened season and into the next season - which curb stomps Lemieux (or 52 goals in 56 games during a different way of looking at that stretch). That's the equivalent of 70 goals in 56 games, or 1.25 goals per game to Lemieux's 1.15. That's just the first one that comes to mind. There are almost certainly others.

edit: Ovechkin also had 49 goals in his first 55 games of 2007-2008, when scoring was 31% lower than '92-93. That's the equivalent of 64 goals in 55 games in 92-93, or 1.16 for Ovechkin to Lemieux's 1.15.

 

[DitchMarner]

If he scores 93, then maybe.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[mikeyp24]

-He doesnt even have Lemieux's best year, those era adjusted stats are wrong. Lemieux scored 69 goals in 60 games total in 92-93. If you are going to era adjust, you have to also factor in the number of games played in the season. Lemieux had 160 points in 60 games in that year. That is the highest points per game era adjusted all time hands down.

How are the stats wrong? It's a mathematical equation unless there was a mistake inputting the numbers which there wasn't... they are right.

Easy answer is Ovi is the greatest goal scorer the game has ever seen. Howe was the standard for years the way Babe Ruth would be for baseball. But like baseball Ruth in today's game doesn't stand a chance. 99 was an amazing scorer but the game was more open and scoring was crazy in his time. Goalies were no where near the caliber they are now in his prime. He also had a large decline after 30 I think in goals and was more of an assist guy. Hull imo was the closest you could have as a comparison because both are pure snipers woth rediculous shots. But again caliber of compition and longevity it's Ovi. He is the most underrated player of his era because lack of playoff success. The problem with that is he is blamed for the failure of his team's when imo it's been him and Backstrom as the only real great players in that team. It' hard to carry a team 82 games and win multiple presidents trophies then have to carry them through multiple 7 game series with other teams having deeper teams. Crosby gets more credit although having guys like Malkin and Kessel who should be the 2 guys with the 3 Conn Smyths in those title seasons. If the NHL was in Russia and not north America Ovi is easily considered the greatest over Crosby.

 

[AcerComputer]

It doesn't work like that.

Why not? Just my opinion. What else were you expecting?

 

[PenguinSpeed]

If you want to make special concessions for Lemieux based on smaller sample sizes, you'd have to do the same for everyone. There are some pretty insane goal scoring stretches for Ovechkin.

Goal scoring was 33.46% higher in 92-93 than it was in 2012-13. 46 goals in 60 games from Ovechkin during that time would equal Lemieux. Ovechkin scored 48 goal in 50 games during the shortened season and into the next season - which curb stomps Lemieux. That's just the first one that comes to mind. There are almost certainly others.

-What are you talking about? Lemieux had Hodkin Lymphoma cancer and finished the season while having radiation treatment. He would of smashed every record that season.

 

[DitchMarner]

Why not? Just my opinion. What else were you expecting?

I don't play the, "80s hockey sucks compared to now!" card, but the simple reality is that it was a much higher scoring decade than the 2010s.

When Gretzky scored 92 goals, the NHL's scoring rate was higher than 8.00 goals per game. This season, the scoring rate is slightly under 6.00 goals per game and that's the highest it's been in years. You can't realistically expect someone to score 90+ goals now.

 

[Balance]

The other reason is the NHL is a lot better because its a global league.

Prior to the Russians, Swedes, Fins, and other nations coming over the NHL was a pretty weak league. US hockey wasn't even developed either, it was just a Canadian league. Now Canadians only make up 50% of the NHL.

Ovechkin's 65 was infinitely more impressive than Gretzky's 92. Just compare OV's shot to Gretzky's, its laughable to even compare.

 

[Fataldogg]

Already is IMO.

 

[Midnight Judges]

-What are you talking about? Lemieux had Hodkin Lymphoma cancer and finished the season while having radiation treatment. He would of smashed every record that season.

There are all sorts of examples where people played well for 3/4 of a season and then hit a wall. There is no telling what would have happened.

There is no need to speculate though: It is in the past. It didn't happen.

And what did actually happen - Ovechkin has topped it at least twice. So you simply don't have a point unless you think players in a game that averages 2.71 goals per game should be scoring just as much as players who played a game that had 3.63 goals per game - which is completely unreasonable.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

The other reason is the NHL is a lot better because its a global league.

Prior to the Russians, Swedes, Fins, and other nations coming over the NHL was a pretty weak league. US hockey wasn't even developed either, it was just a Canadian league. Now Canadians only make up 50% of the NHL.

Ovechkin's 65 was infinitely more impressive than Gretzky's 92. Just compare OV's shot to Gretzky's, its laughable to even compare.

-Made that point at least 50 times on this board. Gretzky, Orr, and Howe played against Canadian only players for most of their careers, Orr / Howe all of their careers. The league went from 6 teams to 21 in a span of 12 years. The league was 100% Canadian all the way down to 46% Canadian.

 

[jj cale]

Mario is the greatest goal scorer I ever saw, he could beat you in so many more ways then Ovechkin and because he was such a playmaker ( which ovechkin isn't) he did not focus solely on scoring goals (which ovechkin does) If he had we wouldn't even be discussing this.

Ovechkin will never be as good a goal scorer as Mario, you just had to watch both players to know it's Mario over Alexander and thats no slight to Ovechkin, it's Mario after all, it's just not a fair fight.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

There are all sorts of examples where people played well for 3/4 of a season and then hit a wall. There is no telling what would have happened.

There is no need to speculate though: It is in the past. It didn't happen.

And what did actually happen - Ovechkin has topped it at least twice. So you simply don't have a point unless you think players in a game that averages 2.71 goals per game should be scoring just as much as players who played a game that had 3.63 goals per game - which is completely unreasonable.

-Again, what are you talking about? He only played 60 games total that year. There was no wall.