And he still have a better track record than Bathgates couple of good performances.
What I'm saying is Gartner's playoff production was not out of place for his abilities.
scoring at 76% of his career regular season rate certainly puts him in the running.Auston Matthews is this generations worst
A really rough and dirty way to see where a player falls on this spectrum is to compare their career playoff PPG average to their career regular season average. It's not always the best way to do it as it assumes that a player's playoff games are fairly distributed. Brian Leetch's and Mark Messier's make them look too good, and Teemu Selanne's does the opposite. But Gartner is a guy who had "some" playoff games most years. And his career ratio is 81%, which is definitely trending in the "playoff disappointment" direction. You usually like to see guys in the 90% range if they're pulling their weight long-term.What I'm saying is Gartner's playoff production was not out of place for his abilities.
An even better way would be to do it by season, right?A really rough and dirty way to see where a player falls on this spectrum is to compare their career playoff PPG average to their career regular season average. It's not always the best way to do it as it assumes that a player's playoff games are fairly distributed. Brian Leetch's and Mark Messier's make them look too good, and Teemu Selanne's does the opposite. But Gartner is a guy who had "some" playoff games most years. And his career ratio is 81%, which is definitely trending in the "playoff disappointment" direction. You usually like to see guys in the 90% range if they're pulling their weight long-term.
Correct, and weight it out by how many playoff games they had each season and how much they overperformed or underperformed that regular season. But then, if you're gonna go that far, you probably want to also include something in the calculation to account for the defensive strength of the opponents. A guy like young Selanne or Palffy always getting one round against a powerhouse may look less odious after those considerations.An even better way would be to do it by season, right?
This thread is a few years out of date, but I look at which players had the biggest increases/decreases in scoring, adjusting for the number of games played and the stage of their career. (ie Teemu Selanne looks better - still not great, but better - once we take into account that the majority of his playoff games were in seasons where he was no longer in his prime).Correct, and weight it out by how many playoff games they had each season and how much they overperformed or underperformed that regular season. But then, if you're gonna go that far, you probably want to also include something in the calculation to account for the defensive strength of the opponents. A guy like young Selanne or Palffy always getting one round against a powerhouse may look less odious after those considerations.
With a guy like Gartner, you know he had enough of a variance and enough samples of production that you can take the results pretty much at face value.
A really rough and dirty way to see where a player falls on this spectrum is to compare their career playoff PPG average to their career regular season average. It's not always the best way to do it as it assumes that a player's playoff games are fairly distributed. Brian Leetch's and Mark Messier's make them look too good, and Teemu Selanne's does the opposite. But Gartner is a guy who had "some" playoff games most years. And his career ratio is 81%, which is definitely trending in the "playoff disappointment" direction. You usually like to see guys in the 90% range if they're pulling their weight long-term.
That one was one I thought with the thread title, considering he did become a bit of a name during the 1993 playoff for (maybe few but big moments) in the dept chart, who would have predicted thatThe ten players with the worst results were (from bad to worse): Rick Nash, Tyler Seguin, John LeClair, Todd Bertuzzi, Marcel Dionne, Alexei Yashin, Pat Verbeek, Andy Bathgate, Tomas Sandstrom, and (the worst) Mike Ribeiro.
I guess my point is that Mike Gartner absolutely does belong near this thread. There are ten worse names that come to mind almost instantly, but he's in the ring right next to those guys.Regardless of Gartner not being Cam Neely or Mark Messier in the playoffs. I don't think he belongs anywhere near this thread. Especially when guys with superior skill sets and worse results in the playoffs exist.
I guess my point is that Mike Gartner absolutely does belong near this thread. There are ten worse names that come to mind almost instantly, but he's in the ring right next to those guys.
That's quite literally the stupidest use of the word "literally" I've ever seen, and that's saying something.That quite literally makes less then zero sense.
I would question my ability to make sense from what I read at that point, this is so short, simple, a young child with just a little bit of education would be able to figure all the sense from it.That quite literally makes less then zero sense.
Auston Matthews is this generations worst
Ruuttu got to play in an offensive role early in his career and scored solid point totals, including above ppg in his first playoffs. But his usage shifted heavily towards defensive when the Sabres became extremely stacked offensively with Turgeon, Hawerchuk, LaFontaine in the same position.Christian Ruuttu- 13 points in 42 playoff games for a 60 point player is beyond pathetic.
I think with Matthews it's not so much a numbers thing as it is that he just never goes supernova.Is Matthews really that bad? I'm not sure, but on the surface of it 22 goals in 50 games isn't terrible, given the context of the Leafs losing seven of the eight series he's been in.
Now, of course, you can turn that around and argue that if Matthews had scored a few more goals, they might not have lost so many of those series...
Is Matthews really that bad? I'm not sure, but on the surface of it 22 goals in 50 games isn't terrible, given the context of the Leafs losing seven of the eight series he's been in.
Season | Regular Season Per 82 Pace | Playoff Per 82 Pace | Difference |
2020-21 | 65 goals | 12 goals | -82% |
2021-22 | 67 goals | 47 goals | -30% |
2022-23 (Lightning) | 44 goals | 68 goals | +55% |
2022-23 (Panthers) | 44 goals | 0 goals | -∞ |
I would question my ability to make sense from what I read at that point, this is so short, simple, a young child with just a little bit of education would be able to figure all the sense from it.
At his peak, Sergei Berezin was a top-level skater, but a choker.... in the playoffs he helped Sundin & Cujo get to two conference finals in back-to-back years (yet in the friggin' basement, unseen, in an all-time context).