Worst Cup Winning Team, Roster Wise.

[Roboturner913]

My perception of the canes in and around the 09 season was that they were an above average team that was making the playoffs more often than not.

Or maybe that perception was because they usually gave the habs alot of trouble.

If you look at the stretch from 99 to 09, they made the playoffs 5 out of 10 seasons, with a Cup win, a SCF appearance, and an ECF appearance. Mixed in with a couple hard-luck 9th place finishes where they won like 43-44 games and still missed out. That's not exactly what you would call "bad" for a 10 year stretch. The wheels didn't really fall off until a couple years after.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

1) Crosby had 31 points in 24 games in those playoffs. What the hell are you talking about? If you are referencing the SCF, that is what you have teammates for. You're acting like Crosby did nothing for the team.

2) Yeah, we all must have forgotten the multiple Vezina's Ward won and Thomas didn't, right?

So again, you ask for a response to your OP, but ***** when it's not the answer you believe it is. Why even make this topic if you're not going to accept any answer but yours?

1. I can say, having watched Malkin systematically destroy my team in the ECF that year, Crosby pulled a disappearing act in the last two rounds, not just the Finals.

2. Yeah, I'm sure the Bruins defense had nothing to do with those Vezinas. They just happened to have 3 Vezina-worthy goaltenders on their roster. Much more logical explanation. Good job.

 

[DaveG]

My perception of the canes in and around the 09 season was that they were an above average team that was making the playoffs more often than not.

Or maybe that perception was because they usually gave the habs alot of trouble.

Felt like every time we made it we played you guys, only more common opponent was New Jersey in those days.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

Felt like every time we made it we played you guys, only more common opponent was New Jersey in those days.

I wonder if Brodeur still sees us in his nitemares

 

[Hackett]

Felt like every time we made it we played you guys, only more common opponent was New Jersey in those days.

Post Hartford, I think the Habs have only played Carolina in 02 and 06 when it comes to the postseason. So yeah, you want a finals run? You know who to face.

 

[george14]

So again, you ask for a response to your OP, but ***** when it's not the answer you believe it is. Why even make this topic if you're not going to accept any answer but yours?

1. I can say, having watched Malkin systematically destroy my team in the ECF that year, Crosby pulled a disappearing act in the last two rounds, not just the Finals.

2. Yeah, I'm sure the Bruins defense had nothing to do with those Vezinas. They just happened to have 3 Vezina-worthy goaltenders on their roster. Much more logical explanation. Good job.

Because you are lying. Crosby was viewed as the Conn Smythe favorite after Malkin so I am not sure what you are even saying. He had 31 points.

And now you are just throwing biased opinion in. Might as well take away Brodeur's awards too because of the NJD style? Come on now. Thomas > Ward and every knows that. But yeah....it was his defense.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Because you are lying. Crosby was viewed as the Conn Smythe favorite after Malkin so I am not sure what you are even saying. He had 31 points.

The more you post about past SCFs, the more I question how many you actually watched. Seems like you're relying on stats or ridiculous parameters like # of HOF players than actually paying attention to how the games were played.

And now you are just throwing biased opinion in. Might as well take away Brodeur's awards too because of the NJD style? Come on now. Thomas > Ward and every knows that. But yeah....it was his defense.

In case you haven't figured this out yet, the whole topic is biased opinion. Despite your apparent belief otherwise, there is no factually correct answer to your OP. You asked for opinions on who people believe had the weakest Cup-winning roster, I gave my answer.

Don't put it on me because you refuse to accept any answer but the one you provided.

 

[george14]

The more you post about past SCFs, the more I question how many you actually watched. Seems like you're relying on stats or ridiculous parameters like # of HOF players than actually paying attention to how the games were played.



In case you haven't figured this out yet, the whole topic is biased opinion. Despite your apparent belief otherwise, there is no factually correct answer to your OP. You asked for opinions on who people believe had the weakest Cup-winning roster, I gave my answer.

Don't put it on me because you refuse to accept any answer but the one you provided.

You are aware the Conn Smythe is for the entire playoffs, right?

I am simply responding to your outlandish inference that Ward is better than Thomas. You just implied his defense won the Vezina. Thomas was the best goalie in the world for a few years.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

since they can't actually play against each other, the only way to rationalize one cup team being worse than another is to look at what they team did before and after their cup

that means the canes are easily the worst, they weren't good before or after their cup win

 

[tarheelhockey]

since they can't actually play against each other, the only way to rationalize one cup team being worse than another is to look at what they team did before and after their cup

that means the canes are easily the worst, they weren't good before or after their cup win

That makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Roboturner913]

since they can't actually play against each other, the only way to rationalize one cup team being worse than another is to look at what they team did before and after their cup

that means the canes are easily the worst, they weren't good before or after their cup win

Big chunks of the same core groups were present in the 02 Stanley Cup Finals and the 09 Eastern Conference Finals, so your assertion is false.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

since they can't actually play against each other, the only way to rationalize one cup team being worse than another is to look at what they team did before and after their cup

that means the canes are easily the worst, they weren't good before or after their cup win

so you are saying that all seven canadian teams are awful and should be relocated because none of them have done jack in 24 years?

am i understanding you correctly?

 

[sabrebuild]

16 points each is pretty significant though. Do the Canes win the cup without acquiring Weight and Recchi? I'm not so sure.

It's one of the rare instances where loading up at the trade deadline really paid off.

IMO it's Carolina's defense that has them being brought up so much in this conversation. It was a real unheralded crew:

D Frantisek Kaberle
D Bret Hedican
D Aaron Ward
D Mike Commodore
D Glen Wesley
D Niclas Wallin

And then you have Cam Ward coming out of nowhere.

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have won if the entire Sabres d corps didn't go down like dominos.

Any Cup team that needs to squeak out a game seven to even get to the finals is going to get some questions.

When that team needs their opponent to lose literally 5 out 6 starters on defense and barely squeaks by, well then....

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

Any Cup team that needs to squeak out a game seven to even get to the finals is going to get some questions.

This may be the stupidest statement in the thread.

Teams that played in a seven game series en route to winning a Cup:

2016 Penguins
2015 Balckhawks
2014 Kings
2013 Balckhawks
2011 Bruins
2009 Bruins
2006 Hurricanes
2004 Lightning
2003 Devils
2002 Red Wings
2001 Avalanche
2000 Devils


So in 16 seasons played since 2000, 12 teams have played in at least one series that required seven games. The frauds.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

So in 16 seasons played since 2000, 12 teams have played in at least one series that required seven games. The frauds.

somewhat ironically since he is a sabres fan

had a missed goalie interference penalty against us in ot of game 6 of the 2006 ecf not been missed

we may have not even needed 7 games to beat buffalo

 

[garnetpalmetto]

I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have won if the entire Sabres d corps didn't go down like dominos.

Any Cup team that needs to squeak out a game seven to even get to the finals is going to get some questions.

When that team needs their opponent to lose literally 5 out 6 starters on defense and barely squeaks by, well then....

We've addressed this, but I think you need to review what "literally" means. Here were the defensemen you used in the 2005-2006 season, their regular season games played, their playoff games played and their games played in the ECF.

Player | Regular Season GP | Playoff GP | ECF GP
Henrik Tallinder|82|14|3
Brian Campbell|79|18|7
Jay McKee|75|17|6
Toni Lydman|75|18|7
Teppo Numminen|75|12|2
Rory Fitzpatrick|56|11|7
Dmitri Kalinin|55|8|0
Jeff Jillson|2|4|4
Nathan Paetsch|1|1|1
Doug Janik|0|5|5

So you had Tallinder in Games 1-3; McKee in Games 1-6; Numminen in Games 1 and 6; Jillson in Games 3-5 and 7; Paetsch in Game 7, Janik in Games 2 and 4-7; and Lydman, Campbell, and Fitzpatrick in all 7 games. So let's consider Tallinder, Campbell, McKee, Lydman, Numminen, Fitzpatrick, and Kalinin your defensive starters. I know, you said 6 starters, but considering Fitzpatrick had one more regular season game than Kalinin AND was one of the d-men you rolled out in Game 1 of your first playoff series, it seems relevant to include both of them. At your strongest, Game 1, you were out 1 - Kalinin. At your weakest, Game 7, you were out 4 (Kalinin, Numminen, McKee, and Tallinder), and for most of the series you were only out 2-3 (2.42ish to be exact).

And as I posted already:

Game 1
Buffalo Wins 3-2

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|0|0|1|23:44|1:04|3:24
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|1|1|0|16:00|1:59|2:16
Henrik Tallinder|1|0|1|1|26:51|0:43|3:46
Teppo Numminen|0|0|0|0|8:40|--:--|2:17
Brian Campbell|0|0|0|-2|18:50|4:14|0:08
Jay McKee|1|0|1|2|22:01|0:07|4:09

Game 2
Carolina Wins 4-3

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|0|0|0|21:38|1:15|3:19
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|1|1|-1|16:41|2:16|1:44
Henrik Tallinder|0|0|0|0|24:39|0:58|3:38
Doug Janik|0|0|0|0|4:12|--:--|--:--
Brian Campbell|0|0|0|-1|22:16|3:46|0:15
Jay McKee|0|0|0|-2|19:40|--:--|2:16

Game 3
Buffalo Wins 4-3

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|1|1|0|23:48|0:17|4:10
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|0|0|1|18:50|--:--|2:19
Henrik Tallinder|0|0|0|0|20:39|0:03|3:02
Jeff Jillson|0|0|0|-1|10:31|1:54|0:46
Brian Campbell|0|0|0|-1|14:36|5:53|--:--
Jay McKee|0|1|1|0|21:00|0:01|4:06

Game 4
Carolina Wins 4-0

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|0|0|0|21:26|0:07|1:41
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|0|0|0|17:45|--:--|1:06
Doug Janik|0|0|0|-1|10:56|--:--|--:--
Jeff Jillson|0|0|0|-3|14:35|2:52|--:--
Brian Campbell|0|0|0|-2|23:58|4:17|0:03
Jay McKee|0|0|0|0|21:23|--:--|2:44

Game 5
Carolina Wins 4-3 (OT)

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|1|0|1|-1|26:49|0:01|6:21
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|0|0|2|26:23|0:56|3:04
Doug Janik|0|0|0|0|10:23|--:--|1:09
Jeff Jillson|0|0|0|0|10:03|1:15|--:--
Brian Campbell|0|0|0|2|32:45|4:54|4:07
Jay McKee|0|1|1|-1|25:47|--:--|8:05

Game 6
Buffalo Wins 2-1 (OT)

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|0|0|0|27:41|0:06|2:43
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|1|1|-1|25:17|2:40|2:18
Teppo Numminen|0|0|0|1|4:13|--:--|--:--
Doug Janik|0|0|0|0|10:10|--:--|0:35
Brian Campbell|0|1|1|0|26:58|5:37|1:48
Jay McKee|0|0|0|0|26:19|--:--|1:22

Game 7
Carolina Wins 4-2

Player|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|PP TOI|SH TOI
Toni Lydman|0|0|0|1|24:27|--:--|4:31
Rory Fitzpatrick|0|0|0|-1|18:12|0:22|2:21
Doug Janik|1|0|1|-1|16:47|--:--|1:42
Jeff Jillson|0|0|0|0|11:34|0:20|0:09
Nathan Paetsch|0|0|0|0|12:06|0:26|--:--
Brian Campbell|0|1|1|0|26:43|2:49|2:53

And now let's consolidate that across the series and sort based on TOI/game

Player|GP|G|A|P|+/-|TOI|TOI/Gm
Toni Lydman|7|1|1|2|1|2:49:33|24:13
Henrik Tallinder|3|1|0|1|1|1:12:09|24:03
Brian Campbell|7|0|2|2|-4|2:46:06|23:44
Jay McKee|6|1|2|3|-1|2:16:10|22:42
Rory Fitzpatrick|7|0|3|3|0|2:19:08|19:53
Nathan Paetsch|1|0|0|0|0|12:06|12:06
Jeff Jillson|4|0|0|0|-4|46:43|11:41
Doug Janik|5|1|0|1|-2|52:28|10:30
Teppo Numminen|2|0|0|0|1|12:53|6:26

 

[geehaad]

Yep, there is the party ruiner. No one here is "ragging" on them. They won the Stanley Cup! It's a legitimate question and don't you think the fact that a lot of people have said the 06 Canes....means they weren't that great roster wise? Go look at the stats, their goaltending was not very good during the regular season.



This was the year after the lockout where scoring was drastically up. The Canes had 2 guy above 1 PPG when there were 40 players who achieved that. Ladd, Weight, Recchi, are solid names but combined for a whopping 31 points in 72 regular season games with a -14 rating. In the playoffs they combined for 37 points in 65 games with a -8 rating.

You do realize that those two paragraphs completely contradict each other...don't you?

 

[FerrisRox]

faced an inferior LA team rather then the Leafs in the finals due to a blown high-stick.

In what universe were the Kings inferior to that Leafs squad?

That was basically Doug Gilmour by himself. The Kings beat the Leafs because they were a better team. How on earth would a penalty to Gretzky somehow have made the Leafs win the series? Why didn't the Leafs beat the "inferior" Kings in the following game?

 

[dogbazinho]

since they can't actually play against each other, the only way to rationalize one cup team being worse than another is to look at what they team did before and after their cup

that means the canes are easily the worst, they weren't good before or after their cup win

I do this with everything I compare. Mentally you have to exclude the thing being directly compared and then compare some tangent to arrive at a conclusion. My conclusion using this methodology is grape.

 

[Herby]

The Kings defeated the 1-2-3 seeds in the western conference in 2012. Even if you discount Phoenix as a 3 seed, they still beat the two best teams in the west in 5 and 4 games.

Call me a homer but the Kings being included on this list is laughable, the roster itself had an elite goalie, elite #1 defender and elite #1 center. Mike Richards was still elite at the time, so add him in as a #2 center. The Kings also validated it by going to the WCF the next year and winning the cup two years later.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

The Kings defeated the 1-2-3 seeds in the western conference in 2012. Even if you discount Phoenix as a 3 seed, they still beat the two best teams in the west in 5 and 4 games.

Call me a homer but the Kings being included on this list is laughable, the roster itself had an elite goalie, elite #1 defender and elite #1 center. Mike Richards was still elite at the time, so add him in as a #2 center. The Kings also validated it by going to the WCF the next year and winning the cup two years later.

the 2012 kings only made the playoffs because the nhl likes to reward losing for some reason i will never understand

dallas had more wins and should have got in ahead of the kings

but thankfully for la fans taking a game to ot//a shootout and losing means you win