Worst #1 goalie ever?

[tarheelhockey]

Just curious about this one... who was the least-effective #1 goalie of all time?

- #1 goalie meaning he started at least 50% of his team's games
- "Worst" meaning poor individual performance... not just W-L record.

Could it be Pat Jablonski? He barely qualified as a #1 for one season, but look at this stat line from the 92-93 Lightning:

43gp
8w-24L-4t
3.97 gaa
.874 sv%

Click to read more...

 

[Hoser]

Just curious about this one... who was the least-effective #1 goalie of all time?

- #1 goalie meaning he started at least 50% of his team's games
- "Worst" meaning poor individual performance... not just W-L record.

How do you judge "poor individual performance"? Stats? You just said not to use stats!

Could it be Pat Jablonski? He barely qualified as a #1 for one season, but look at this stat line from the 92-93 Lightning:

43gp
8w-24L-4t
3.97 gaa
.874 sv%

And yet, you use stats!

*sigh*



Statistically Peter Sidorkiewicz, playing for the Senators that same season, was even worse: 64 GP, 8-46-3, 4.43 GAA, 0.856 SV%.

 

[tarheelhockey]

How do you judge "poor individual performance"? Stats? You just said not to use stats!



And yet, you use stats!

*sigh*



Statistically Peter Sidorkiewicz, playing for the Senators that same season, was even worse: 64 GP, 8-46-3, 4.43 GAA, 0.856 SV%.

I didn't say not to use stats...

 

[Hoser]

Not exactly, but you said to exclude win-loss record presumably because it doesn't reflect "poor individual performance" (it reflects the performance of the team?).

And yet GAA, SV%, etc. do reflect individual performance (and not the team's)?

I don't get it. If you wanted to know who was statistically the worst goalie, ignoring W-L record, why didn't you just ask that in the first place?

 

[tarheelhockey]

You might be overthinking this a little...

Not exactly, but you said to exclude win-loss record presumably because it doesn't reflect "poor individual performance" (it reflects the performance of the team?).

Simply because there's always going to be a certain number of responses citing the worst record of all time, and that's not really what I was asking.

I don't get it. If you wanted to know who was statistically the worst goalie, ignoring W-L record, why didn't you just ask that in the first place?

But I'm not asking who was statistically the worst goalie (that's a Google question anyway). Maybe Sidorkiewicz was actually a pretty good 'tender who got stuck on a bad team? I'm sure someone here knows the answer to that from personal observation.

If it makes it easier, just forget the stats angle altogether. Who was just god-awful, brutally bad regardless of the numbers?

 

[Big Phil]

I know there might be worse ones, but Allan Bester comes to mind. How in the world did this guy get work in the NHL? He had a career GAA of 4.01. And he was WORSE in the playoffs. Remember when he let in that goal from the blueline in overtime during the 1990 playoffs? And the Leafs kept this guy around for 7 years like a bad cold. In 1989-'90 he played 42 games and despite winning 20 of them he had a GAA of 4.49! This is a goalie who allowed 8 goals in the playoffs in a game - on home ice!

Daniel Berthiaume comes to mind as well. He never played on the worst teams to walk the earth yet his GAA was terrible. He was 2-17-1 on the '93 Senators and he played 25 games which makes you realize he was pulled often.

John Garrett? There must have been the flu going around the NHL because this guy actually played in the all-star game in 1983.

Ron Low? The less you talked about him the better.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Daniel Berthiaume comes to mind as well. He never played on the worst teams to walk the earth yet his GAA was terrible. He was 2-17-1 on the '93 Senators and he played 25 games which makes you realize he was pulled often.

I didn't realize he was ever an NHL goalie. I saw him play multiple full seasons in the ECHL only a few years after that.

That is to say, the Sens had an ECHL-quality goalie at a time when the ECHL was even more of a scrub league than it is today...

 

[Buck Aki Berg]

I know there might be worse ones, but Allan Bester comes to mind. How in the world did this guy get work in the NHL? He had a career GAA of 4.01. And he was WORSE in the playoffs. Remember when he let in that goal from the blueline in overtime during the 1990 playoffs? And the Leafs kept this guy around for 7 years like a bad cold. In 1989-'90 he played 42 games and despite winning 20 of them he had a GAA of 4.49! This is a goalie who allowed 8 goals in the playoffs in a game - on home ice!

Allan Bester came to my mind immediately. I was 6 when this guy was stinking up MLG, and even then I knew something wasn't right.

...but at least the Leafs had Ken Wregget to hold down the fort if Bester wasn't on his game

 

[Bear of Bad News]

You just said not to use stats!

Where did he say not to use stats?

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

John Garrett? There must have been the flu going around the NHL because this guy actually played in the all-star game in 1983.

"King" Richard Brodeur was the nucks lone rep for the game. When he came up lame, Garrett was the replacement, because the Campbell's needed a goalie and the Nucks were required to have a rep.

Ironically, Garrett almost won the MVP of the game, until Gretzky shellshocked a young Lindbergh who would take a year and a half to recover.

 

[MXD]

I know there might be worse ones, but Allan Bester comes to mind. How in the world did this guy get work in the NHL? He had a career GAA of 4.01. And he was WORSE in the playoffs. Remember when he let in that goal from the blueline in overtime during the 1990 playoffs? And the Leafs kept this guy around for 7 years like a bad cold. In 1989-'90 he played 42 games and despite winning 20 of them he had a GAA of 4.49! This is a goalie who allowed 8 goals in the playoffs in a game - on home ice!
.

Bester wasn't even the worst no.1 goalie in his division (I'm hard-pressed to come up with the best goalie of the Norris, but I wouldn't rate Darren Pang and Greg Millen better for sure, I kindof hesitate to put Stefan ahead of him as well), let alone in the league, let alone in NHL's history. I would even say that, between Liut and Belfour, the only guy who was a no.1 in that division (and was better than Bester) was Jon Casey (this said, I kindof hesitate to bring Hanlon in this discussion). Compare his numbers to Alain Chevrier, and it's not even close.

Ken MacAuley is IMO the obvious answer here, but that might be going a little too far away.

 

[kaiser matias]

"King" Richard Brodeur was the nucks lone rep for the game. When he came up lame, Garrett was the replacement, because the Campbell's needed a goalie and the Nucks were required to have a rep.

Ironically, Garrett almost won the MVP of the game, until Gretzky shellshocked a young Lindbergh who would take a year and a half to recover.

Garrett is the colour commentator of Sportsnet Canuck games. At least once a game he mentions something about his all-star appearance. It even takes up half his bio in the Canucks media guide. Though if you only have one "achievment" in your career, you might as well bring it up every time somebody talks to/with/about you.

 

[Mayor Bee]

Daniel Berthiaume comes to mind as well. He never played on the worst teams to walk the earth yet his GAA was terrible. He was 2-17-1 on the '93 Senators and he played 25 games which makes you realize he was pulled often.

I'd have to put the 92-93 Senators on a very short list of candidates for "worst teams to walk the earth".

Berthiaume had a .871 save % and a 4.30 GAA...Peter Sidorkiewicz had a .856 and a 4.43....Darrin Madeley .773 and 6.67....Steve Weeks .792 and 7.23.

When your top four defensemen are Norm Maciver, Brad Shaw, Darren Rumble, and Chris Luongo, you're not going to be stopping many pucks.

 

[kdb209]

I'd have to put the 92-93 Senators on a very short list of candidates for "worst teams to walk the earth".

Berthiaume had a .871 save % and a 4.30 GAA...Peter Sidorkiewicz had a .856 and a 4.43....Darrin Madeley .773 and 6.67....Steve Weeks .792 and 7.23.

When your top four defensemen are Norm Maciver, Brad Shaw, Darren Rumble, and Chris Luongo, you're not going to be stopping many pucks.

The '92-'93 Sharks say hi.

Not quite the #1 (tied for most games):

Jeff Hackett - 36 games 2-30-1 5.28 0.856

along with

Brian Hayward - 18 games 2-14-1 5.55 0.846

But it does give you an appreciation of:

Arturs Irbe - 36 games - 7-26-0 4.11 0.887

With a D of a rookie Sandis Ozolinsh, a 35 yo final season Doug Wilson, Rob Zettler, Doug Zmolek, Jayson More, Neil Wilkerson, and Tommy Pederson.

 

[Psycho Papa Joe]

Ron Low's first two years in Washington:

1974-75 48 games, 5.45GAA, 8-36-2
1975-76 43 games, 5.45GAA, 6-31-2

 

[Johnny Engine]

Berthiaume's GAA in 93-94 was 120.00. Yeah.
All of these goaltenders are from the 80s and early 90s. When I get back later tonight I may run a few searches to find out what starting goaltender had the poorest residual numbers compared to the rest of the league.

 

[BudMaster17]

Tosgoala. I don't have the time to throw up his numbers, seriously his numbers are so bad I would throw up.

 

[DJ Man]

In the very early 1960s, the six-team era, five of the teams had a Hall-of-Famer in goal. The Bruins had someone named Don Head.

 

[Steve Kournianos]

Peter the Polish Prince All Star

He was kinda helpless.

 

[mco543]

Jeff Hackett for the 92/93 Sharks is the worst single season stat line ever for a NHL goalie. After going through a season like that it's remarkable he turned into a respectable NHL-caliber goalie.

 

[reckoning]

I know there might be worse ones, but Allan Bester comes to mind. How in the world did this guy get work in the NHL? He had a career GAA of 4.01. And he was WORSE in the playoffs. Remember when he let in that goal from the blueline in overtime during the 1990 playoffs? And the Leafs kept this guy around for 7 years like a bad cold. In 1989-'90 he played 42 games and despite winning 20 of them he had a GAA of 4.49! This is a goalie who allowed 8 goals in the playoffs in a game - on home ice!

The Leaf goalie in the 8-0 playoff loss was Ken Wreggett, not Bester.

Bester wasn't a horrible goalie, he was an average goalie on a horrible team. The defence in front of him consisted of guys like Chris Kotsopoulous and Bob McGill. No goalie could succeed there. Bester's biggest weakness was his size, but he did outperform other Leaf goalies during his time there.

In the four season span from '86-'87 to '89-'90:

Bester: 55-62-11 (.473); GAA- 3.96; Sv%- .884; SO- 6
Other Leafs: 64-113-15 (.372); GAA- 4.29; Sv%- .871; SO- 2

 

[Big Phil]

The Leaf goalie in the 8-0 playoff loss was Ken Wreggett, not Bester.

Bester wasn't a horrible goalie, he was an average goalie on a horrible team. The defence in front of him consisted of guys like Chris Kotsopoulous and Bob McGill. No goalie could succeed there. Bester's biggest weakness was his size, but he did outperform other Leaf goalies during his time there.

In the four season span from '86-'87 to '89-'90:

Bester: 55-62-11 (.473); GAA- 3.96; Sv%- .884; SO- 6
Other Leafs: 64-113-15 (.372); GAA- 4.29; Sv%- .871; SO- 2

Are you sure it wasn't Bester in net for that 8-0 loss? Well, I could be wrong

 

[Big Phil]

Ken MacAuley is IMO the obvious answer here, but that might be going a little too far away.

Yes "Tubby" MacAuley is #1 all-time for sure. And to boot he played his only two NHL seasons in the WWII era which was a more depleted league. How in the world can you have a season where you have a 6.28 GAA? Yikes.

By the way, he wasn't a bad goalie as we witnessed later but if anyone had a terrible statistical record it has to go to Jeff Hackett. Playing on the '93 Sharks will do that to you but honestly a 2-30-1 record with a 5.28 GAA is just insane

 

[Mayor Bee]

Maybe we need to set a few parameters. I'd love to continue on with the 91-92 Sharks, the 92-93 Sharks and Senators, and 93-94 Senators, but we're still talking about expansion teams in high-scoring areas with defensive corps that had the skill and mobility of Jay Caufield's mother. 92-93 Sharks....top four defensemen were Jay More, Neil Wilkinson, Rob Zettler, and Doug Zmolek.

I'd narrow it a little bit further to say "worst starting goalie on a team at least 5-10 years removed from entry to the NHL". Otherwise we'll be focusing on Darrin Madeley and Jarmo Myllys (remember him?) until the end of time.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

If we're gonna throw out stats...

Cloutier, after he broke his mind, was a total gong show. Especially in the playoffs. He was skittish, and you could totally tell the team didn't trust him. In the playoffs your teammates have to believe that the goalie, given half a chance, will stop the first and second shot. Nobody thought Clouts could even stop the first one, so rather than pressing any offense, the team was constantly racing backwards to make sure that no one got a shot on net.