GWT: World Cup - Quarterfinals - England v. France

[MXD]

I'm all for substracting the penalty effect IF the chance that would otherwise happen without the penalty is CLEARLY taken into consideration.

 

[Evilo]

One thing I learned from this game is that it doesn't matter where your foot was when you are fouled, but rather where you weer fouled, or to say it better, in Kane's case the spot of the foul is his upper shin rather than the foot. France escaped a penalty by the narrowest of margins there.

It was really close and clearly a foul.
VAR can't call a FK, that's why the ref didn't overturn his decision.

TIL penalties aren't chances.

When judging if a team has outplayed and outchances their opponents?
Well duh.

I'm all for substracting the penalty effect IF the chance that would otherwise happen without the penalty is CLEARLY taken into consideration.

Yes its tough for the first one, but the second one is beyond obvious. Zero threat. Goal kick.

 

[bluesfan94]

When judging if a team has outplayed and outchances their opponents?
Well duh.

If the penalties were completely against the run of play, sure, or a random happening. But Saka got hacked down while running through the box and Mount got bulldozed while running onto a through ball.

Those were potential chances that were taken away by poor French defending. It's silly to ignore that.

 

[Evilo]

The hilarious argument that "Mount got bulldozed while running onto a through ball".
Like, either get some glasses or stop lying.

 

[Wee Baby Seamus]

lololololololololololol

TIL shoving someone in the back in the box is a goal kick

 

[koyvoo]

The English have definitely come a far way from yesteryear, when they’d mostly look clumsy and awkward, completely devoid of creativity and possessing rudimentary technical ability.

They’re still a ways away from their continental European and South American opponents, but they’ve come far from where they were 30-40 years ago.

 

[bluesfan94]

The hilarious argument that "Mount got bulldozed while running onto a through ball".
Like, either get some glasses or stop lying.

What part do you disagree with?

 

[luiginb]

Yeah Mount's was no chance, Theo just had a brainfart there. That's why his brother will always be the one starting when fit, don't see him doing that.

 

[Karterthadon]

Theo was getting so badly abused by Saka all game that he blew up, lost his head, hence that NFL pass interface style tackle.

 

[Evilo]

lololololololololololol

TIL shoving someone in the back in the box is a goal kick

Is that what I wrote?
I wrote it wasn't a chance.

Are you saying it was?

What part do you disagree with?

The part where you link that crap with "Those were potential chances"

Lol, now we're going to hear that the ball going straight into goal kick 5 meters over Mount was a great chance taken away.

The length some will go to argue about nothing is astounding.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

The length some will go to argue about nothing is astounding.

 

[Islay1989]

It was really close and clearly a foul.
VAR can't call a FK, that's why the ref didn't overturn his decision.


When judging if a team has outplayed and outchances their opponents?
Well duh.


Yes its tough for the first one, but the second one is beyond obvious. Zero threat. Goal kick.

I'm well aware VAR can't award FKs.

 

[Evilo]

I didn't imply you weren't.

 

[member 305909]

England just isn't a top 10 team so for them getting to the quarter-finals is an overachievement rather than a disappointment.

 

[Rob]

The English have definitely come a far way from yesteryear, when they’d mostly look clumsy and awkward, completely devoid of creativity and possessing rudimentary technical ability.

They’re still a ways away from their continental European and South American opponents, but they’ve come far from where they were 30-40 years ago.

Reading/listening to comments from pundits and fans it does appear that there is a level of overall satisfaction with their performance. There are still those who will correctly point out that England can't beat the big teams. Which has been a continuing issue.

I do think the pressure it really on for England to win the 2024 Euros. The finished second in 2021. Have a good young core. Time to win something.

 

[Savant]

England just isn't a top 10 team so for them getting to the quarter-finals is an overachievement rather than a disappointment.

Please name ten teams better than England. I’m not even an England fan and I would have trouble doing that

 

[bluesfan94]

Obviously the list begins with Hungary

 

[cgf]

TIL penalties aren't chances.

They are, but they're chances that come outside of the regular flow of play. And when you're talking about "outplaying a team" it's usually the regular flow of play that people are referring to rather than just the chances...at least to me.

So I kinda agree with Evilo that xG doesn't necessarily tell us who outplayed whom if one team's xG score is much more heavily influenced by set pieces than the others'.

Obviously the list begins with Hungary

Don't joke about that...

 

[bluesfan94]

They are, but they're chances that come outside of the regular flow of play. And when you're talking about "outplaying a team" it's usually the regular flow of play that people are referring to rather than just the chances...at least to me.

Yes and no. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes a penalty is the result of outplaying an opponent leading to a bad challenge, whether due to mental or physical fatigue of the defender or due to the superior technical/physical ability of the attacker.

 

[cgf]

Reading/listening to comments from pundits and fans it does appear that there is a level of overall satisfaction with their performance. There are still those who will correctly point out that England can't beat the big teams. Which has been a continuing issue.

I do think the pressure it really on for England to win the 2024 Euros. The finished second in 2021. Have a good young core. Time to win something.

That's a shame, cause it's coming home in 2024

 

[Maestro84]

With the exception of Germany at Euro 2021 at Wembley, England has never beaten "big teams" at both the World Cup and Euros in the new century. In the last 20 years they've lost nearly every match they've played when they go up against a team that's either at their level or above them.

2022 WC: Lost to France
2021 Euro: Lost to Italy (beat Germany in R16)
2018 WC: Lost to Croatia and twice to Belgium
2014 WC: Lost to Italy and Uruguay
2012 Euro: Lost to Italy (tied France in RR)
2010 WC: Lost to Germany
2006 WC: Lost to Portugal
2004 Euro: Lost to France and Portugal
2002 WC: Lost to Brazil (beat Argentina in RR)

Simply put, whenever England goes up against another strong nation they almost always lose and this time it was no different. They're great at beating up on teams like Denmark, Iran, Ecuador, and Sweden but once they play top teams it's an uphill battle for them each time

 

[cgf]

Yes and no. Sometimes that's true. Sometimes a penalty is the result of outplaying an opponent leading to a bad challenge, whether due to mental or physical fatigue of the defender or due to the superior technical/physical ability of the attacker.

True. Not all penalties are created equal and that makes it more complex as well. So even though I've been lamenting Germany's gap between xG differential and actual GD, I do agree with Evilo about xG not always equating with who outplayed whom.

With the exception of Germany at Euro 2021 at Wembley, England has rarely ever beaten "big teams" at both the World Cup and Euros. In the last 20 years they've lost nearly every match they've played when they go up against a team that's either at their level or above them.

2022 WC: Lost to France
2021 Euro: Lost to Italy
2018 WC: Lost to Croatia and twice to Belgium
2014 WC: Lost to Italy and Uruguay
2012 Euro: Lost to Italy
2010 WC: Lost to Germany
2006 WC: Lost to Portugal
2004 Euro: Lost to France and Portugal
2002 WC: Lost to Brazil

We weren't a "big team" in 2021, we were just a "big name"

 

[S E P H]

I cannot think of somebody more deserving of missing a penalty to lose the game than Kane and all the antics he displays in the EPL. That was such satisfying justice if I ever saw one.

Besides that, surprised by all the backlash against England, it's not like they lost to Morocco or Japan, losing to France is not something to hold their heads about. Sure, losing the way they did with the missed pen is obviously heartbreaking, but they've been way worse in other major tournaments of the past. A final in the Euros and a final-eight appearance aren't necessarily bad results. Also, I get all the love being thrown Bellingham's way, but damn I was just so impressed by Saka and thought he was England's most consistent player by far. Lads, I think we're seeing a revelation of true greatness here. All these knockout stage matches have been a sight to behold, each one has been drama filled to the nth degree.

E: Also I consider it disgusting that the lamppost beat Henry's French goal record, I can't think of somebody so undeserving as a half-arse talented bloke who is also a cheater.