Work ethic is at the highest level now in NHL

[jbeck5]

Its as if last year when stars were injured they were out and young guys with everything to prove came in and played hard and baught into the system.

This year when the stars got injured they didn't sit out. They chose to play injured and focus what was left of their abilities on offense and not care about defense.

I wonder which route is more effective/successful.

Bbbutttt looookk! Our top players still produced so-so numbers despite playing hurt! Who cares that defense was an afterthought and is the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Its as if last year when stars were injured they were out and young guys with everything to prove came in and played hard and baught into the system.

This year when the stars got injured they didn't sit out. They chose to play injured and focus what was left of their abilities on offense and not care about defense.

I wonder which route is more effective/successful.

Bbbutttt looookk! Our top players still produced so-so numbers despite playing hurt! Who cares that defense was an afterthought and is the reason we didn't make the playoffs.

We had star players producing last year. They were in the form of goaltenders putting up historic numbers.

 

[jbeck5]

We had star players producing last year. They were in the form of goaltenders putting up historic numbers.

Then we traded 1 and he might win a vezina.

There's a lot of reasons why we didn't make the playoffs this year. In no particular order:

1) our d is a mess. Phillips continues to play? We should have sent him to the chicago wolves along with corvo. Karlsson didn't give a poop about d most of the year. Our defensive defenseman for the most part have played like defensive defenseman in the offensive zone, and like offensive defensemen in the defensive zone...but without the break out. The amount of times I've seen gryba,cowen, or Phillips skate around from behind our net and blindly give it to the other team in the slot for a goal. That's their go-to breakout. That or dumping it off the glass giving it right back to the other team to have another go at it.

2) our goaltending regressed big time

3) replace our coach with a monkey this year and we would have had better line combos.

4) aside from turris, MacArthur, and conacher*, our forwards like to glide around the ice. Especially when coming back defensively. Hoffman has been good too.

5) lack of following team best players play. Veterans mess up but let's keep playing them 20 mins a game. Youngins mess up,scratched for 20 games.

6)refs. Who are we kidding? I'll go there.

7) lack of leadership. No one stepping up saying enough is enough and leading by example...clarke, u were too late.

I could probably go on but don't want to derail things. Lol

 

[Baby Ryan]

We had star players producing last year. They were in the form of goaltenders putting up historic numbers.

It helped that the team as a whole was more committed to the system though, but that doesn't take away the fact that the goalies last year still played ridiculously crazy.

This seems a bit misguided...

1. They had Seguin when they won the Stanley Cup. He's pretty close.

2. Chara is a Norris Trophy winning defender. He's pretty top end.

3. There have been 5, 4, and 7 guys in the 85+ point pace category in the previous 3 seasons. And two of them play for the Penguins. That leaves 3, 2 and 5 guys on the other 29 NHL teams. Your statement would be more accurate if you said "all teams" don't have those guys... the fact that the very top teams don't have them isn't even that fair. Penguins have two of them as I said, Hawks have one of them and he's named Kane. Vancouver has 2 of them and they went to the finals.

4. Boston has - Krejci, Iginla, Lucic all on pace for 60+ points. Bergeron is very close to that as well. Smith & Marchand are 50+ point paces and Smith isn't far off 60 point pace himself. Soderberg has 41 points in 64 games. This is a team loaded with offensive talent... suggesting they don't have top guys ignores what they do have. Which is 5-6 guys that out-produce your "average" top 6 forward (which is 40-45 points if you look at the NHL as a whole).

5. Hawks - Hard not to call them a top team with 2 Stanley cups in the last few years... so you just sort of omit to mention that. They have Sharp, Kane & Toews all near PPG pace. Keith with 57, Hossa with 55. Again, not only do they have 3 almost PPG players which is insane top end scoring depth but they have two more pushing very high paces as well.

6. Blues - Steen has 57 in 61, Oshie 60+ pace, Backes 60+ pace, Schwartz 60 pace, Pietrangelo almost 60 pace. Tarasenko 43 in 64. And hten a ridiculous amount of 35-40pt pace guys. So they certainly have elite top end scoring with lots of guys on 60 pace which is very good. As well as 5 guys on pace to score 20 or more goals. And then they have MASSIVE depth in their bottom 6 forwards and defense group in terms of contributing scoring.

Saying these teams are just "hard work" is just... well... really lazy analyzing. These teams are stacked deep with talent. It's coming out their ears. The blues gave away Perron for nothing. Gave him away. Too many good players to take his ice. Think about that for a minute. Let it sink in. That guy is a fantastic top 6 forward on any team in the NHL. They are good because they have talent, and LOTS of it.

There are only a handful of guys capable of 80+ points and even fewer who actually do it more than a few times in their careers. That's reality. Most teams don't have them. It's not an argument that merits suggesting these guys aren't relevant to a good team. Boston would be almost unbeatable if they had Crosby, same with the Hawks or Blues.

What he means is that they don't have an anchor like Crosby carrying the offense or Ovi.
Like you said, it's depth instead of a super-star carrying them.
Instead of one person holding the wealth, it's spread evenly throughout the entire line-up.

It also helps that they actually follow their systems, those teams are very disciplined for the most part and are committed to their systems which makes them so darn good.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Then we traded 1 and he might win a vezina.

There's a lot of reasons why we didn't make the playoffs this year. In no particular order:

1) our d is a mess. Phillips continues to play? We should have sent him to the chicago wolves along with corvo. Karlsson didn't give a poop about d most of the year. Our defensive defenseman for the most part have played like defensive defenseman in the offensive zone, and like offensive defensemen in the defensive zone...but without the break out. The amount of times I've seen gryba,cowen, or Phillips skate around from behind our net and blindly give it to the other team in the slot for a goal. That's their go-to breakout. That or dumping it off the glass giving it right back to the other team to have another go at it.

2) our goaltending regressed big time

3) replace our coach with a monkey this year and we would have had better line combos.

4) aside from turris, MacArthur, and conacher*, our forwards like to glide around the ice. Especially when coming back defensively. Hoffman has been good too.

5) lack of following team best players play. Veterans mess up but let's keep playing them 20 mins a game. Youngins mess up,scratched for 20 games.

6)refs. Who are we kidding? I'll go there.

7) lack of leadership. No one stepping up saying enough is enough and leading by example...clarke, u were too late.

I could probably go on but don't want to derail things. Lol

You didn't even touch on the biggest reason why this team isn't going to the post season: penalty killing.

We have the 2nd most PP goals against this year after having the top ranked PK unit last year. That is the one area this team completely failed in this season. I don't think this is due to a lack of effort or leadership. I have no doubt this team would have made the post season if it had even had a middle of the pack (10-15 range) PK.

 

[mcnorth]

You didn't even touch on the biggest reason why this team isn't going to the post season: penalty killing.

We have the 2nd most PP goals against this year after having the top ranked PK unit last year. That is the one area this team completely failed in this season. I don't think this is due to a lack of effort or leadership. I have no doubt this team would have made the post season if it had even had a middle of the pack (10-15 range) PK.

A lot of the penalties that put us on the PK were from a lack of effort, though.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

A lot of the penalties that put us on the PK were from a lack of effort, though.

You could say that, yes. However, I really hate blaming something on a lack of effort in this sport. It's far too simplistic and just a straight analytic cop out for most people who don't have anything to contribute to the discussion.

A lot of the players on this team who I have no problem describing as very hard blue collar workers are the major negatives. The reality is that there aren't lazy guys in the NHL. You simply don't get to this level without extremely hard work. What separates guys is their talent and ability to read the flow of the game translate that hard work into success.

 

[aragorn]

You didn't even touch on the biggest reason why this team isn't going to the post season: penalty killing.

We have the 2nd most PP goals against this year after having the top ranked PK unit last year. That is the one area this team completely failed in this season. I don't think this is due to a lack of effort or leadership. I have no doubt this team would have made the post season if it had even had a middle of the pack (10-15 range) PK.

And yet people continue to argue how great a penalty killer Condra is. IMO putting Stone with Hoffman & Zibanejad would create a 3rd scoring line that would create many more offensive chances & consequently more goals which would offset taking so many penalties although they really do need to cut down on those dramatically next y.

 

[jbeck5]

You didn't even touch on the biggest reason why this team isn't going to the post season: penalty killing.

We have the 2nd most PP goals against this year after having the top ranked PK unit last year. That is the one area this team completely failed in this season. I don't think this is due to a lack of effort or leadership. I have no doubt this team would have made the post season if it had even had a middle of the pack (10-15 range) PK.

I was actually thinking about how bad our pk was when I wrote the last line of my post.

Like someone else mentioned, this is why I want condra gone. Not that I'm blaming him for our pk, but he doesn't contribute anywhere else, and our pk isn't even successful with him. I feel someone can take his spot in the regular lineup while also playing on the pp or pk and bring a lot more to the table.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

Last year we made the playoffs off of hardwork even though we had very little top-end talent.

This year we have the talent but zero hardwork and we looking at a top 5 pick.

 

[DylanSensFan]

I think as hockey fans, its quite noticeable that bruins and blues work hard every game and you didn't need a full analysis on them, take a look at the standing and see where they are as well as the important stats.

terrible way to describe the sens last year vs Boston or St. Louis, young guys on the sens vs 2 teams that didn't build what they have over night.

Now what happened to Pits vs Boston in round 3, highly skilled team vs a work hard team....Pits got swept.

@cookies, when i say "work ethic" i don't mean guys like Zack Smith or Chris Neil who play hard almost each night.....I mean guys that have hard work ethic along with a few guys who have that offensive skill but don't put up huge numbers in points like pretty much all of Boston and St. Louis.

Iginla, Bergeron and the like are no slouches, even look at Marchand who is second/third line, or Lucic. You say that none of these guys score 85+ points but they are doing it by committee instead. Chicago won because they got scoring depth from everywhere and they had solid defenders and a reasonably good goaltender. Sure work ethic is great, but skill is definitely paramount to winning in this league. The two must be coupled.

 

[Countdown0]

I understand that, but I gave 2 perfect examples to defend my argument in Boston and St Louis.

Saying "you need everything to win" doesn't defend your argument.

They haven't won the cup yet. Last time Boston picked it up, Tim Thomas carried them. Last team to win the cup was Chicago, and they DO have the offensive powerhouse guys. The thing is, their powerhouse guys play their role well, and aren't liabilities.

Don't forget that both the Blues and the Bruins are getting pretty good goaltending, especially Boston.

Then you have the Pens, who are second in the East, have the current leading point guy in the league in Crosby.

I'm not disagreeing that hard work pays off. It definitely does, and everything else being equal, the harder working team has an advantage.

But you can't just rely on hard work. Eventually, skill WILL trump hard work, as long as the difference in skill is sufficient.

Why would you only want one or the other? Why can't we expect and demand both? Why shouldn't we? These guys are being paid to play a game, which I'm sure they all will at least claim to love playing. Lets see them bring skill and hard work to the table.

 

[Indrew]

Last year we made the playoffs off of hardwork even though we had very little top-end talent.

This year we have the talent but zero hardwork and we looking at a top 5 pick.

In a 48 game saison mon cheri.