Work ethic is at the highest level now in NHL

[bigray19]

If you take a look at Boston and St. Louis they don't have any really top end offensive guys that can produce points season after season in the NHL, when I say points I mean 85+ points per season.

Both those teams work hard each and every game and the results are incredible, they simply win. Every single player on both rosters give all they can every night.

Do you think that "work ethic" is now the new NHL? Will teams try to focus more on work ethic than anything else.
Take a look at Edmonton, drafting stars each year doesn't always work.

As well how do you guys feel if the Sens went that route this summer, that would definitely mean moving both Spezza and Ryan in the off season along with a few more softer type players.

Go ahead and discuss boys!

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[HavlatMach9]

you need everything to win, not just work ethic.

 

[bigray19]

I understand that, but I gave 2 perfect examples to defend my argument in Boston and St Louis.

Saying "you need everything to win" doesn't defend your argument.

 

[Baby Ryan]

It's funny because I mentioned this a couple of months ago in a thread.

Work ethic, however can only get you so far.

Someone can have the best work ethic in the entire league, but does not have the skills to finish/set up plays/offensive vision/defensive awareness/reading body movement/etc.

Guys can get really far with strong work ethic, but that extra touch of skill can put them over the top.

At the same time, guys who have great natural talent can get to this level in the NHL, but to be competitive work ethic is required.

Balance of both really, and those two teams are great representations of that.

 

[HavlatMach9]

you just offered a couple teams without any real analysis.

our work ethic was unreal last year, but it couldn't overcome the massively skilled Pittsburgh team.

 

[bigray19]

you just offered a couple teams without any real analysis.

our work ethic was unreal last year, but it couldn't overcome the massively skilled Pittsburgh team.

I think as hockey fans, its quite noticeable that bruins and blues work hard every game and you didn't need a full analysis on them, take a look at the standing and see where they are as well as the important stats.

terrible way to describe the sens last year vs Boston or St. Louis, young guys on the sens vs 2 teams that didn't build what they have over night.

Now what happened to Pits vs Boston in round 3, highly skilled team vs a work hard team....Pits got swept.

@cookies, when i say "work ethic" i don't mean guys like Zack Smith or Chris Neil who play hard almost each night.....I mean guys that have hard work ethic along with a few guys who have that offensive skill but don't put up huge numbers in points like pretty much all of Boston and St. Louis.

 

[bigray19]

@cookies, when i say "work ethic" i don't mean guys like Zack Smith or Chris Neil who play hard almost each night.....I mean guys that have hard work ethic along with a few guys who have that offensive skill but don't put up huge numbers in points like pretty much all of Boston and St. Louis.

 

[Baby Ryan]

@cookies, when i say "work ethic" i don't mean guys like Zack Smith or Chris Neil who play hard almost each night.....I mean guys that have hard work ethic along with a few guys who have that offensive skill but don't put up huge numbers in points like pretty much all of Boston and St. Louis.

I was just referring in general, but yea i know what you mean. Boston and St.Louis is built around rolling 4 lines, all line chipping in offensively and know what they are doing defensively and the most key part is they are largely very disciplined. They are also very tough to break mentally, they aren't fragile teams *cough* our team *cough*, more often than not 1 goal isn't going to detriment them.

This is the biggest reason why Boston is my second team, too much respect to not like them.

 

[ISensFanI]

We need more stamina.

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

Hard work beats talent when talent hardly works.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Please point me to a team in the modern era who have won a Stanley Cup without a good work ethic. This thread seems superfluous. It's like asking"Is scoring goals an important aspect of ice hockey?"

In reality, this is just a poorly veiled TRADE SPEZZA thread.

 

[MiscBrah]

Ya it's so crazy those teams don't have any skill, the goalies just work really hard and the defenceman just work really hard. Give me a ****ing break.

St. Louis and Boston have incredible depth at basically every position. The reason they don't have players dominating offensively is because everyone contributes. There is a reason Jagr has as many points as he does playing for New Jersey and it isn't because he's getting better as he's getting older.

If work ethic was all that mattered Calgary would be in the playoffs this year.

edit: to further prove my point let me remind you that St. Louis and Boston are 2nd and 3rd in GF this season with 233 and 230 respectively. Ottawa by comparison has 205 GF.

 

[bigray19]

Please point me to a team in the modern era who have won a Stanley Cup without a good work ethic. This thread seems superfluous. It's like asking"Is scoring goals an important aspect of ice hockey?"

In reality, this is just a poorly veiled TRADE SPEZZA thread.

Spezza is my favorite player even my avi name has 19 in it, nice try.

Scoring goals is an important aspect of hockey but scoring goals and putting up points while being bad defensively and not working hard doesn't win you games.

You won't see any of the Bruin or Blues players putting up huge numbers but they work hard and win.

 

[bigray19]

@misc that's because the scoring is spread out between everyone and not 2 or 3 guys.

 

[MiscBrah]

@misc that's because the scoring is spread out between everyone and not 2 or 3 guys.

exactly. You take a player off the team (like seguin for example) and he becomes PPG player.

They have depth at every single position. Well except maybe goaltending but who cares because they have Rask.

 

[SuperDuper101]

If you take a look at Boston and St. Louis they don't have any really top end offensive guys that can produce points season after season in the NHL, when I say points I mean 85+ points per season.

Both those teams work hard each and every game and the results are incredible, they simply win. Every single player on both rosters give all they can every night.

Do you think that "work ethic" is now the new NHL? Will teams try to focus more on work ethic than anything else.
Take a look at Edmonton, drafting stars each year doesn't always work.

As well how do you guys feel if the Sens went that route this summer, that would definitely mean moving both Spezza and Ryan in the off season along with a few more softer type players.

Go ahead and discuss boys!

This seems a bit misguided...

1. They had Seguin when they won the Stanley Cup. He's pretty close.

2. Chara is a Norris Trophy winning defender. He's pretty top end.

3. There have been 5, 4, and 7 guys in the 85+ point pace category in the previous 3 seasons. And two of them play for the Penguins. That leaves 3, 2 and 5 guys on the other 29 NHL teams. Your statement would be more accurate if you said "all teams" don't have those guys... the fact that the very top teams don't have them isn't even that fair. Penguins have two of them as I said, Hawks have one of them and he's named Kane. Vancouver has 2 of them and they went to the finals.

4. Boston has - Krejci, Iginla, Lucic all on pace for 60+ points. Bergeron is very close to that as well. Smith & Marchand are 50+ point paces and Smith isn't far off 60 point pace himself. Soderberg has 41 points in 64 games. This is a team loaded with offensive talent... suggesting they don't have top guys ignores what they do have. Which is 5-6 guys that out-produce your "average" top 6 forward (which is 40-45 points if you look at the NHL as a whole).

5. Hawks - Hard not to call them a top team with 2 Stanley cups in the last few years... so you just sort of omit to mention that. They have Sharp, Kane & Toews all near PPG pace. Keith with 57, Hossa with 55. Again, not only do they have 3 almost PPG players which is insane top end scoring depth but they have two more pushing very high paces as well.

6. Blues - Steen has 57 in 61, Oshie 60+ pace, Backes 60+ pace, Schwartz 60 pace, Pietrangelo almost 60 pace. Tarasenko 43 in 64. And hten a ridiculous amount of 35-40pt pace guys. So they certainly have elite top end scoring with lots of guys on 60 pace which is very good. As well as 5 guys on pace to score 20 or more goals. And then they have MASSIVE depth in their bottom 6 forwards and defense group in terms of contributing scoring.

Saying these teams are just "hard work" is just... well... really lazy analyzing. These teams are stacked deep with talent. It's coming out their ears. The blues gave away Perron for nothing. Gave him away. Too many good players to take his ice. Think about that for a minute. Let it sink in. That guy is a fantastic top 6 forward on any team in the NHL. They are good because they have talent, and LOTS of it.

There are only a handful of guys capable of 80+ points and even fewer who actually do it more than a few times in their careers. That's reality. Most teams don't have them. It's not an argument that merits suggesting these guys aren't relevant to a good team. Boston would be almost unbeatable if they had Crosby, same with the Hawks or Blues.

 

[jbeck5]

Ya it's so crazy those teams don't have any skill, the goalies just work really hard and the defenceman just work really hard. Give me a ****ing break.

St. Louis and Boston have incredible depth at basically every position. The reason they don't have players dominating offensively is because everyone contributes. There is a reason Jagr has as many points as he does playing for New Jersey and it isn't because he's getting better as he's getting older.

If work ethic was all that mattered Calgary would be in the playoffs this year.

edit: to further prove my point let me remind you that St. Louis and Boston are 2nd and 3rd in GF this season with 233 and 230 respectively. Ottawa by comparison has 205 GF.

I think you're proving OPs point. We need guys who care about winning instead of guys who care about racking up the score.

Hes not saying trade spezza for Zack smith. He's saying try to go for a 60 point 2 way player instead of a 75 point "I don't give a **** about defense and won't back check' player. I'm not pointing the finger. I'm saying try to get players that produce 10% less offense, but are 20% better defensively...and not that they're necessarily less talented but just divert more of their energy to the defensive side....basically like trying to get more Patrice bergerons instead of Jason spezza.

 

[CanadianHockey]

I have work ethic. Play me, coach.

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

Spezza is my favorite player even my avi name has 19 in it, nice try.

Scoring goals is an important aspect of hockey but scoring goals and putting up points while being bad defensively and not working hard doesn't win you games.

You won't see any of the Bruin or Blues players putting up huge numbers but they work hard and win.

Several players on the Blues are putting up big numbers. They have 7 players with 40+ already including Steen who has 31 goals in 61 games. That's very gaudy.

The only player who's putting up big numbers on our team is Karlsson. He doesn't work hard all the time, are we supposed to trade him to get better?

 

[MiscBrah]

I think you're proving OPs point. We need guys who care about winning instead of guys who care about racking up the score.

Hes not saying trade spezza for Zack smith. He's saying try to go for a 60 point 2 way player instead of a 75 point "I don't give a **** about defense and won't back check' player. I'm not pointing the finger. I'm saying try to get players that produce 10% less offense, but are 20% better defensively...and not that they're necessarily less talented but just divert more of their energy to the defensive side....basically like trying to get more Patrice bergerons instead of Jason spezza.

If you read the post directly above yours you'll see exactly what I'm saying. The teams are loaded with offensive and defensive talent combined with amazing goaltending. Crazy that having elite parts at all three positions can win you stanley cups.

 

[Icelevel]

Like Paul Maclean said last week, here in ottawa it may be a case of conflict of work ethic based system with more skill based players.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's really about attitude.

The key is to get guys who have both talent and a strong work ethic. Guys who don't just want to win, but need to win. It's not a coincidence most of the great players to lace up the skates are also the biggest whiners - Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby - because they need to win. Every fiber of their being depends on winning everything. Every faceoff, every puck battle, every shot, every shift.

If you can get an entire team to buy into that concept, and do it consistently, chances are you will be a contender.

Too many times various Ottawa players will give up on a play, give up on a puck battle, give up on a forecheck. Dump the puck to avoid a hit. Have a letdown after a goal is scored (instead of going out there and willing themselves to try and get it back).

The thing is, a hard working person can easily become discouraged and get lazy. A guy with a winning attitude who is stuck for a long time in a losing culture can lose that winning attitude. A person with high morals and ideal can eventually become corrupted when surrounded by lesser quality individuals. That is why society, sports, et all, are in a pyramid structure....it's so easy to fall, and so hard to climb to the top and stay there.

That is why it is vital for any organization - whether it's a sports team, a corporate business, or even a circle of friends - to be constantly vigilant of corruption and rot and dispose of it quickly before it spreads.

 

[jbeck5]

If you read the post directly above yours you'll see exactly what I'm saying. The teams are loaded with offensive and defensive talent combined with amazing goaltending. Crazy that having elite parts at all three positions can win you stanley cups.

All those elite players care about defense and try just as hard defensively as offensively.

Spezza could play like toews if he wanted to. He has the talent and ability. He just doesn't have the drive.

We have guys who will skate super hard going up the ice...and glide back. Do you think Clarke was lying?

Teams that win cups have guys who will produce slightly less then they possibly could to have the ability and energy to give a damn defensively. Im pretty sure that was the idea he was going for.

 

[LynxBud]

Work ethic's always been important. It's just a bonus when you have skilled players who can buy into that concept.

Last year we had a team who bought into it. The whole team worked their butts off and played great defencively.
It seems like they expected the superstars to return this season and carry the workload while a lot of them regressed and got lazier.

I also 100% believe that the way the team handled the Alfie situation put a lot of them in a funk for this season.
This team was known to slow down anytime Alfie was out of the lineup. Hopefully this only lasts for this one season.
Better yet, I would be ecstatic if there was some way the team could convince Alfie to play another year here next year. Highly doubtful.

I also disagree with Spezza's lack of work ethic. I feel like he had a rough start to the season due to injuries.
Over the last while, he's been playing a much better game. He's never going to be a 2-way player, but his linemates can make up for that.
At some point this season I might have agreed with trading Spezza, but, I take any of those thoughts back. I'd like to see him re-signed this summer.

I believe this team is only a piece or two away from being a contender, but, a lot of them are missing that work ethic. For now.

 

[jbeck5]

Work ethic's always been important. It's just a bonus when you have skilled players who can buy into that concept.

Last year we had a team who bought into it. The whole team worked their butts off and played great defencively.
It seems like they expected the superstars to return this season and carry the workload while a lot of them regressed and got lazier.

I also 100% believe that the way the team handled the Alfie situation put a lot of them in a funk for this season.
This team was known to slow down anytime Alfie was out of the lineup. Hopefully this only lasts for this one season.
Better yet, I would be ecstatic if there was some way the team could convince Alfie to play another year here next year. Highly doubtful.

I also disagree with Spezza's lack of work ethic. I feel like he had a rough start to the season due to injuries.
Over the last while, he's been playing a much better game. He's never going to be a 2-way player, but his linemates can make up for that.
At some point this season I might have agreed with trading Spezza, but, I take any of those thoughts back. I'd like to see him re-signed this summer.

I believe this team is only a piece or two away from being a contender, but, a lot of them are missing that work ethic. For now.

This bothers me. I understand he's going to take chances and make risky plays. I understand this. He's an offensive threat so it comes with the territory. What I won't tolerate is the lack of back check. There's no excuse.

I see spezza gliding back. I'm thinking "he's exhausted and as soon as we get it out he'll change" but instead he's like "oohhh offense! I'll stay on" then we won't score and it will come the other way on a 3 on 2 and they'll score because spezza is gliding back for the second time on 1 shift.

I will say this though, he's gotten better the last couple weeks. If he was injured he needs to sit. Him not back checking is a big reason why he has such a big minus beside his name. If he's unable to backcheck when injured he should sit. Someone will replace him and not score as much...but will not get scored on as much because they will be back checking.