Speculation: With the third pick in the 2024 NHL draft the Anaheim Ducks select...(Plus other Draft talk)

[tomd]

On youtube, there was yet another Zegras to Montreal trade rumor. Their 2024 5th overall for Zegras. Z to Montreal is just far to excessive now that it's beyond dumb and dumber.

credible source?

And just playing Verbeek's advocate here...I think his wet dream would be walking out of the draft with two of the top D...Levshunov, Dickinson, Silayev, or Buium. I think he'd gladly trade Zegras straight up for the 5th pick to accomplish that.

 

[Rasp]

credible source?

And just playing Verbeek's advocate here...I think his wet dream would be walking out of the draft with two of the top D...Levshunov, Dickinson, Silayev, or Buium. I think he'd gladly trade Zegras straight up for the 5th pick to accomplish that.

Please stay away from the trade board. If a Montreal fan see you say that we will never hear the end of it

 

[tomd]

Please stay away from the trade board. If a Montreal fan see you say that we will never hear the end of it

That is not a problem for me to do! I assume Montreal fans want him for free...

 

[Reveille1984]

I can't see Verbeek trading one of our best forwards for a lottery ticket dman if he's actually serious about starting to compete for a playoff spot and accelerating the process of fielding a better NHL team. It just makes zero sense based on everything he's said, especially when we're desperate for offense as it is.

 

[Kalv]

Draft picks are nice, but Pat has been saying for 2 years now that the win mode is now (yes, it will be slower and miserable at the start). Plus, he has obligations to show results to the owners – soon it will be his 4th year here.

So there is no way that he'd prioritize lotery picks over some proven good youngish players.

 

[tomd]

I can't see Verbeek trading one of our best forwards for a lottery ticket dman if he's actually serious about starting to compete for a playoff spot and accelerating the process of fielding a better NHL team. It just makes zero sense based on everything he's said, especially when we're desperate for offense as it is.

Draft picks are nice, but Pat has been saying for 2 years now that the win mode is now (yes, it will be slower and miserable at the start). Plus, he has obligations to show results to the owners – soon it will be his 4th year here.

So there is no way that he'd prioritize lotery picks over some proven good youngish players.

I may be in the minority but I think Zegras is not a PV type of player and he'd jump at the chance to trade him if the return was what he was looking for. Just my opinion.

 

[KickHisAssZegrass]

Draft picks are nice, but Pat has been saying for 2 years now that the win mode is now (yes, it will be slower and miserable at the start). Plus, he has obligations to show results to the owners – soon it will be his 4th year here.

So there is no way that he'd prioritize lotery picks over some proven good youngish players.

I'd even say he may looking to do the opposite and move picks this year for young talent... hopefully someone that normally wouldnt be available wants out... Brady Tkachuk would make a good captain

 

[Son of Gib]

I may be in the minority but I think Zegras is not a PV type of player and he'd jump at the chance to trade him if the return was what he was looking for. Just my opinion.

Unless we're getting a great, established young player back in the return, might as well fire up that tank thread for another 3 years.

 

[Reveille1984]

I may be in the minority but I think Zegras is not a PV type of player and he'd jump at the chance to trade him if the return was what he was looking for. Just my opinion.

It's kind of a beggars can't be choosers situation at this point. If he's waiting to field an entire NHL team of "Verbeek's guys", that just isn't a realistic expectation.

Any trade that involves Zegras would end up with us losing the best player in the deal and essentially resetting the rebuild once again for more kids and picks. The fanbase has suffered enough with that shit, it's time to start keeping our good players and building something.

 

[tomd]

It's kind of a beggars can't be choosers situation at this point. If he's waiting to field an entire NHL team of "Verbeek's guys", that just isn't a realistic expectation.

Any trade that involves Zegras would end up with us losing the best player in the deal and essentially resetting the rebuild once again for more kids and picks. The fanbase has suffered enough with that shit, it's time to start keeping our good players and building something.

I understand and I'm not advocating anything but PV traded a young roster player in Drysdale (who I also believe wasn't a PV type of player) for an even younger player that he coveted. If he covets someone at 5OA and can get him for Zegras I think he would do it. Right or wrong, PV wants a certain type of player which is why he drafted guys like Gaucher and Myatovic in lieu of other players with more talent. IMO, PV wouldn't have drafted Zegras had he been GM at the time. Again, I'm not predicting it or advocating such a trade but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it happened.

 

[Kalv]

I may be in the minority but I think Zegras is not a PV type of player and he'd jump at the chance to trade him if the return was what he was looking for. Just my opinion.

The second part is true for any player on the team.
What is a PV type of a player in your opinion?

I'd even say he may looking to do the opposite and move picks this year for young talent... hopefully someone that normally wouldnt be available wants out... Brady Tkachuk would make a good captain

Yep, I also wouldn't be surprised if an opportunity comes along.

Well, Zegras and Brady is on the same line to start Worlds
We need righty's tho. We have plenty of LW/C

 

[tomd]

The second part is true for any player on the team.
What is a PV type of a player in your opinion?

Yep, I also wouldn't be surprised if an opportunity comes along.

Well, Zegras and Brady is on the same line to start Worlds
We need righty's tho. We have plenty of LW/C

PV wants big players who play a structured game. Just look at past PV picks...Gaucher, Myatovic, Pitre, Terrance, and Warren are not very talented but they play the game the way PV wants it played. He took them over players with far more talent. Drysdale is another guy who was undersized and did not play a structured game and he's gone. It just seems to me that Zegras is next. Not hoping for it but fully expecting it.

 

[Anaheim4ever]

I understand and I'm not advocating anything but PV traded a young roster player in Drysdale (who I also believe wasn't a PV type of player) for an even younger player that he coveted. If he covets someone at 5OA and can get him for Zegras I think he would do it. Right or wrong, PV wants a certain type of player which is why he drafted guys like Gaucher and Myatovic in lieu of other players with more talent. IMO, PV wouldn't have drafted Zegras had he been GM at the time. Again, I'm not predicting it or advocating such a trade but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if it happened.

If he was GM in 2019 who would he have picked ? I can see him picking Boldy but not Caufield.
Broberg, Soderstrom, Podkolzin, Krebs and Newhook are trending in wrong direction last I looked.

 

[tomd]

If he was GM in 2019 who would he have picked ? I can see him picking Boldy but not Caufield.
Broberg, Soderstrom, Podkolzin, Krebs and Newhook are trending in wrong direction last I looked.

I don't think he would have been very excited by anyone in that draft at 9...probably Boldy but I don't think he ranks pure talent at the top of the list. Which is why if Chicago takes Levshunov he will pass on the BPA in Demidov. And as fans we will regret it for the next dozen years.

 

[Kalv]

PV wants big players who play a structured game. Just look at past PV picks...Gaucher, Myatovic, Pitre, Terrance, and Warren are not very talented but they play the game the way PV wants it played. He took them over players with far more talent. Drysdale is another guy who was undersized and did not play a structured game and he's gone. It just seems to me that Zegras is next. Not hoping for it but fully expecting it.

Those PV picks are kind of longshots to become NHL players, I just hope Pat realises that

He sure has tendency to look for bigger and 2-way-ish players. But he also was Pro Scout for Det when they drafted Tatar, Nyquist, etc. He was assistant GM for Tampa that drafted Drouin, and built their team with several high skill, not necessarilly big, players. He just drafted Sidorov who is far from big or responsible defensively.

He has his preferences, but I'd like to think he's well aware that a winning team needs skill, which is usually a player outside of his preferences

 

[Trojans86]

The more I watch Buium the more I like him. Seems to be the smartest and most skilled d in the draft with enormous upside.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

credible source?

And just playing Verbeek's advocate here...I think his wet dream would be walking out of the draft with two of the top D...Levshunov, Dickinson, Silayev, or Buium. I think he'd gladly trade Zegras straight up for the 5th pick to accomplish that.

Ya I mean I think in terms of realistic trade for zegras

5+ a prospect prob logical…. And if PV is hell bent on moving zegras.

I hope he’s not but who know

If we do end up moving zegras then we prob need to aim at 2 top 6 forwards in trade/free agency…. And I’d prob want to move up our oilers pick to try and grab sannecke, MBN or greentree

 

[FiveTacos]

On youtube, there was yet another Zegras to Montreal trade rumor. Their 2024 5th overall for Zegras. Z to Montreal is just far to excessive now that it's beyond dumb and dumber.

If Zegras stays long term and becomes a key player for us, I'm sure there will be plenty of posts from Habs fans about how they should have pulled the trigger on a late 1st and scraps for him, as if it were ever actually on the table.

And I think if he is moved it's far more likely it will be the next time a big name is being shopped, and Zegras is the prime piece of a package. We weren't ready to be in on Tkachuk or Eichel or something like that, but the depth has improved substantially since.

 

[JAHV]

I don't think he would have been very excited by anyone in that draft at 9...probably Boldy but I don't think he ranks pure talent at the top of the list. Which is why if Chicago takes Levshunov he will pass on the BPA in Demidov. And as fans we will regret it for the next dozen years.

It seems like a stretch to criticize Verbeek for something he hasn't done in a situation that hasn't arisen for reasons that we will never know. I'm glad that in this fantasy world we fans get a part to play as well.

 

[tomd]

It seems like a stretch to criticize Verbeek for something he hasn't done in a situation that hasn't arisen for reasons that we will never know. I'm glad that in this fantasy world we fans get a part to play as well.

That's what this thread is all about...who should PV take at 3OA. And there is a very real chance that the "fantasy" will in fact happen. Chicago could well take Levshunov 2OA. If so, what direction do the Ducks go in? Do they pass on the consensus BPA? Do they go with one of the other D and which one? Or do they go off the board and take an Iginla or Helenius type? Real questions that are fair game for discussion.

 

[JAHV]

That's what this thread is all about...who should PV take at 3OA. And there is a very real chance that the "fantasy" will in fact happen. Chicago could well take Levshunov 2OA. If so, what direction do the Ducks go in? Do they pass on the consensus BPA? Do they go with one of the other D and which one? Or do they go off the board and take an Iginla or Helenius type? Real questions that are fair game for discussion.

I think it's fair game for discussion. But I think calling Demidov the consensus BPA at pick 3 is a stretch. I don't consume as much prospect analysis as many here, I'm sure, but I've seen several compilations where the compiler has noted scouts that have him as low as 5.

I also think it's an assumption that "raw skill" is what makes a player the BPA at a given spot. Makeup, motivation, intelligence, fit - all of those also matter. Maybe not as much as skill, but they're important. And while we've seen Verbeek emphasize those ancillary traits later in a draft (as you noted with Gaucher and Myatovic), I don't think it's established that he'll follow that same template with a top five pick. Lastly, we have to account for the Madden influence on those picks as well.

But those are really beside the point. Mostly I think it's helpful that if we're having a speculative discussion, we frame it that way. There is a real chance that Demidov is available at 3 and Verbeek drafts someone else - I agree. But it's not known with certainty, as your previous post stipulates. I do think there's a difference in the tone of discussion saying, "I don't think Demidov is Verbeek's type based on the past two drafts" versus "Verbeek is going to pass on the best player available and we're all going to hate it."

 

[tomd]

I think it's fair game for discussion. But I think calling Demidov the consensus BPA at pick 3 is a stretch. I don't consume as much prospect analysis as many here, I'm sure, but I've seen several compilations where the compiler has noted scouts that have him as low as 5.

I also think it's an assumption that "raw skill" is what makes a player the BPA at a given spot. Makeup, motivation, intelligence, fit - all of those also matter. Maybe not as much as skill, but they're important. And while we've seen Verbeek emphasize those ancillary traits later in a draft (as you noted with Gaucher and Myatovic), I don't think it's established that he'll follow that same template with a top five pick. Lastly, we have to account for the Madden influence on those picks as well.

But those are really beside the point. Mostly I think it's helpful that if we're having a speculative discussion, we frame it that way. There is a real chance that Demidov is available at 3 and Verbeek drafts someone else - I agree. But it's not known with certainty, as your previous post stipulates. I do think there's a difference in the tone of discussion saying, "I don't think Demidov is Verbeek's type based on the past two drafts" versus "Verbeek is going to pass on the best player available and we're all going to hate it."

Regarding Demidov...I'm just using the recent McKenzie rankings which I think are generally regarded as one of the best indicators of what the NHL scouts are thinking. 5 of 10 scouts had him at 2OA and 2 others had him at 3OA. That's a pretty strong consensus.

Edit: Regarding my statement that you referred to about PV passing on Demidov. I think we can assume that all such statements are opinions unless we say (or imply) that we have inside information. I clearly did not cross that line.

 

[JAHV]

Regarding Demidov...I'm just using the recent McKenzie rankings which I think are generally regarded as one of the best indicators of what the NHL scouts are thinking. 5 of 10 scouts had him at 2OA and 2 others had him at 3OA. That's a pretty strong consensus.

I don't consider that consensus. I don't know if there's a bright line, but 70% isn't it for me. In a room of 10 experts, if three agree that your decision is reasonable, I think you have to consider the merits.

 

[cheesymc]

Anyone know if Lindstrom legitimately has a herniated disc? I was still thinking he could be in play, but I can't see Verbeek/Madden going with a guy who's lost so much helium, especially if he has a potentially long-term health concern.

 

[Guilty Bystander]

Regarding Demidov...I'm just using the recent McKenzie rankings which I think are generally regarded as one of the best indicators of what the NHL scouts are thinking. 5 of 10 scouts had him at 2OA and 2 others had him at 3OA. That's a pretty strong consensus.

Despite this, the quote from McKenzie's latest rankings that stuck with me was this one:

"As one scout put it, 'Celebrini is going No. 1, but the next five or six teams [picking after No. 1] might all get the No. 2 prospect on their [respective] lists. There’s that much varied opinion [on the top prospects after Celebrini].'"