With Phaneuff gone, how does the hole get fixed?

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.
 

TheCLAM

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Oct 11, 2012
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Niagara Falls
Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.

It's kinda early to speculate more of an off-season discussion
 

Ricky Bobby

Registered User
Aug 31, 2008
8,457
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Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.

We won't have a problem reaching the cap floor.

I also expect us to take on additional cap dumps with short terms to gain assets with a D being a main piece for us to focus on.

Think names like
1 year left on their deal after this season: Wideman, Engelland
2 years left on their deal after this season: Carle, Fayne, Tyutin, Emelin
 

darrylsittler27

Registered User
Oct 21, 2002
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Why?

The trade just happened and it seems these days there is pretty much not much to talk about.I mean some of us are actually starting to think the NHL game is getting boring. The passion is gone, the rivalries are gone, trades are gone,the physicality is gone and the parity is getting lame too. Whole NHL cities watching hockey hoping their team wins a lottery(fixed?) or their team will go nowhere for 10 years. I'm not interested in watching this again next year, trading Phanueff made it more likely.I mean isn't it stupid that the only way to win a cup is by being bad? And yet Edmonton.....
 

Stephen

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Feb 28, 2002
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If we don't sign Stamkos we could always take a home run swing at Hedman next summer if available. Then there's guys like Yandle.
 

Faltorvo

Registered User
Feb 18, 2008
21,067
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Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.

Cap floor is not even remotely close to being an issue.

Next year could very well have the same "feel and results" to it or

The stars could finally align for us and we land Stammer or Mathews or go super nova and land both , ATM there are % chances of some of those things happening.

but either way, there is still more pain coming, no way around that.

and if our scouts/Hunter can't draft us a 3/4 D man to fill in for Dion, then big man, we are in a world of hurt.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
24,902
1,391
Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.

Here's the problem -- there is anyone in the system with even a remote chance of "growing into that role". Most of the Leafs defensive prospects project as bottom pair guys, with possible top 4 upside... nobody who appears that they could develop into a top pair shutdown guy.

So, realistically, they're going to have to look outside the organization. I guess the hope is, with the cap staying flat, perhaps that represents an opportunity to acquire that player either through trade or free agency. Their group up front should be fine, even without Stamkos.

As for why they did it, I suspect, they simply looked at the bodies they have, and said "we want Rielly to anchor the top pair, we want Gardiner to anchor the 2nd pair, and we don't like Dion Phaneuf at $7m on either of them". So, they knew he needed to be replaced.

Was it premature? Yes. But, I suspect they looked at it as follows. If, one year from today, they were offered the trade of Lindberg & a 2nd in the upcoming draft for Dion Phaneuf, no retention, would they take it? The answer was probably, and given that, it wasn't worth the risk of that deal evaporating in 1 year's time. Of course something to consider in that deal, is that they moved Phaneuf, took back a bunch of bad contracts, but assuming no subsequent moves, after the 16-17 season, the only remnants they'll be left with are Tobias Lindberg, a 2nd round pick, and the rights to Jared Cowen. It's how the Kessel deal should have gone. Take on some short term pain... be left with a couple of assets long term.
 
Last edited:

Menzinger

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Apr 24, 2014
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They'll likely look for a Hunwick type UFA - overlooked player wth good underlying numbers who can be signed on a cheap deal.
 

gamer1035

Registered User
Feb 14, 2012
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If we wanted to contend, Phaneuf would've been our #3.

We are still missing a top pairing guy we will either need to draft or trade one of our previous high picks on.

I'm thinking the #3 can be filled in with one of our picks, or sign a guy way down the road.
 

mallory67

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Ovate

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Dec 17, 2014
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I don't think we get a stop-gap veteran in free agency or through trade.

I don't think we just draft and develop either. All of our prospects with potential to be as good as Dion are at least four years away from making that kind of impact.

I think we go for a young defenseman with #3 potential, someone either in the NHL or who will be next year. We'll probably sign Zaitsev, and he could fit that role, but we might try to trade for someone as well. Lou obviously has the 9th OA for Schneider trade in his recent past, so he's not afraid of giving up futures for other futures that are in a position of need.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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Yandle or Goligoski as a UFA signing? Hamhuis?

Neither Yandle or Goligoski fit the bill in terms of a player to compliment one of Rielly/Gardiner....

Hamhuis, a different story, but at 33 years old, there's really no reason for him to consider coming here, nor would we be in a position to make anywhere near the most competitve offer.
 

seanlinden

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Apr 28, 2009
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I don't think we get a stop-gap veteran in free agency or through trade.

I don't think we just draft and develop either. All of our prospects with potential to be as good as Dion are at least four years away from making that kind of impact.

I think we go for a young defenseman with #3 potential, someone either in the NHL or who will be next year. We'll probably sign Zaitsev, and he could fit that role, but we might try to trade for someone as well. Lou obviously has the 9th OA for Schneider trade in his recent past, so he's not afraid of giving up futures for other futures that are in a position of need.

That's a good point.

While Zaitsev may have top 4 potential down the road, it would be foolish to think that he can be the #2 guy we need.

Perhaps if he ends up #2 or #3 OA, he considers dangling them for a young defenceman that a team may have trouble coming to terms with. Dougie Hamilton would've been a fine pickup last year...
 

OldMilIce

Registered User
Apr 30, 2015
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Niagara, ON
Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.

I think you are missing something here...the goal pretty much IS tanking. The team will do the same thing they did this year, sign older second (or third) chance players to short contracts, hope to trade them for draft picks. I don't think this is a one off year, the leafs are going to be bad for at least one more year unless there are drastic personnel/long-term goal changes ie. Stamkos/give up rebuilding.

The Phaneuf hole probably wont be filled per se. Maybe they sign another vet in the offseason, or promote a Marlie and hope for decent results, but I would imagine for now Cowen will fill some of the minutes and Corrado will start playing more. Phaneuf was a large part of the last management regime and him being gone is its own plus to the new management group, but it certainly made the team worse.
 

seanlinden

Registered User
Apr 28, 2009
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I think you are missing something here...the goal pretty much IS tanking. The team will do the same thing they did this year, sign older second (or third) chance players to short contracts, hope to trade them for draft picks. I don't think this is a one off year, the leafs are going to be bad for at least one more year unless there are drastic personnel/long-term goal changes ie. Stamkos/give up rebuilding.

The Phaneuf hole probably wont be filled per se. Maybe they sign another vet in the offseason, or promote a Marlie and hope for decent results, but I would imagine for now Cowen will fill some of the minutes and Corrado will start playing more. Phaneuf was a large part of the last management regime and him being gone is its own plus to the new management group, but it certainly made the team worse.

There isn't a professional in the game who goes out with the intent of losing.

To think that they're going to damage the development of guys like Marner, Nylander, etc., by holding them in the AHL away from the toxic environment that was the Leafs this year is ludicrous.

This was the pain / reset / make trades that will definitely hurt you year. Next is a build forward year. Get young guys in the lineup, let them learn the NHL game, improve as they do.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
73,974
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Personally, I think this defense is pretty meh. Do you guys think the plan is go after some future free agent, trade or just let the kids grow into it? Is the plan to lose next year as well? I mean if we don't sign Stamkos then what? This team will have problems making the cap floor next year.To be frank, unless the goal was tanking, what was the benefit of unloading Phaneuff? The Oilers have proven being all young isn't that great.Just interested in the fans opinion on this.

Free up cap space while the opportunity presented itself?
 

WillNytheSwedishGuy

Registered User
Sep 17, 2015
258
0
Was it premature? Yes. But, I suspect they looked at it as follows. If, one year from today, they were offered the trade of Lindberg & a 2nd in the upcoming draft for Dion Phaneuf, no retention, would they take it? The answer was probably, and given that, it wasn't worth the risk of that deal evaporating in 1 year's time. Of course something to consider in that deal, is that they moved Phaneuf, took back a bunch of bad contracts, but assuming no subsequent moves, after the 16-17 season, the only remnants they'll be left with are Tobias Lindberg, a 2nd round pick, and the rights to Jared Cowen. It's how the Kessel deal should have gone. Take on some short term pain... be left with a couple of assets long term.

This is a great take on the trade, though I suspect some around here will take umbrage with it.

I think making the trade was a good idea for same reasons you outlined. His value to the team in the short term was outweighed by a desire to evade the incoming headache his contract was going to cause a couple years down the road, as well as a desire to get the best return for him they could. If they waited until his contract became a bigger issue, then tried to move him, they likely would not have gotten as good a return as they did.

Having said that, I think some efforts need to be made to fill the void created by Phaneuf's departure. Its too bad his contract was an albatross, because I think having a guy like Phaneuf to insulate the development of the young d core was a real asset. The defensive group is now a little light on experience, which concerns me from a development perspective.

Maybe they go into the UFA market this summer, find an experienced top 4 d man and sign him to a reasonable contract (3 or 4 year term max), and fill the void that Phaneuf's departure has created.
 

HoweHullOrr

Registered User
Oct 3, 2013
11,628
2,233
The trade just happened and it seems these days there is pretty much not much to talk about.I mean some of us are actually starting to think the NHL game is getting boring. The passion is gone, the rivalries are gone, trades are gone,the physicality is gone and the parity is getting lame too. Whole NHL cities watching hockey hoping their team wins a lottery(fixed?) or their team will go nowhere for 10 years. I'm not interested in watching this again next year, trading Phanueff made it more likely.I mean isn't it stupid that the only way to win a cup is by being bad? And yet Edmonton.....

Maybe the Leafs are trying something new (build versus buy) because they've tried the quick fix and sign UFA route for decades without much success?
 

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