Transfer: Winter Transfer Thread Part III - Ronaldout

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Lewandowski not of a similar importance? The next season was not as good in the league, but won a trophy, and the year after under Tuchel they did run second.

I'm not saying it's a good process to go down, and I feel less good about it with Edwards gone this summer. However, at some point, some of this team is going to need to be replaced. I don't want it to be Salah to go, but maybe he has the most value in the transfer market. Maybe Mane gets back to his top form being the main guy again. Maybe they can use a Salah fee to get 2-3 players, and continue to develop some talented younger players.

I'll be honest, I felt much more concerned about the front three before they showed that Jota could fit in. I'm not saying Jota is Salah, but he's on the way up more so than down. Another player like that, and I think they're different but not inherently worse.



I also agree that I don't know if it looks good for the resigning of Salah. I think they're going to toe the line, for better or worse.

Not as good? lmaooo they were 7th in the league in a 1/2 team league. Thats abysmal. They also were knocked out in the first round in the CL. What does Tuchel have anything to do with Klopp? We are looking at how Klopp deals with an important player leaving.

 

[bluesfan94]

If he leaves, it is a big blow. However, the end of the world would be him AND Klopp, and more importantly, losing him on a free. The club is not rich enough to replace him, and if they got nothing for him, they would be even more destitute.

That said, if they decide to not sign him to a new contract (which would be completely stupid and they all need to be sacked), but sold him, they would make enough money to eventually get back to a top side. For what it's worth, Klopp has lost top players to other sides and kept going. It would not be what I want to see, but it wouldn't be the end of days.

Liverpool and destitute are not words that should be used in the same sentence.

 

[Chimaera]

Not as good? lmaooo they were 7th in the league in a 1/2 team league. Thats abysmal. They also were knocked out in the first round in the CL. What does Tuchel have anything to do with Klopp? We are looking at how Klopp deals with an important player leaving.

It was still really Klopp's team. And, yes, he did suffer a massive drop off the next season, but was that because of Lewandowski or his burnout? I know he's said both played into it.

Dortmund definitely lost a few key players and they kept rolling.

 

[Chimaera]

Liverpool and destitute are not words that should be used in the same sentence.

Considering they've spent on ledger basically nothing the last few windows, they're not rich. They aren't destitute, but they're operating at minimal input from ownership.

 

[bluesfan94]

Considering they've spent on ledger basically nothing the last few windows, they're not rich. They aren't destitute, but they're operating at minimal input from ownership.

Is that due to ability or willingness?

Also, in 2020/21, they had a pretty decent window. Last window they brought in Konate. A couple years ago was the big Keita/Alisson/Fabinho year. Basically they took one year off.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

It was still really Klopp's team. And, yes, he did suffer a massive drop off the next season, but was that because of Lewandowski or his burnout? I know he's said both played into it.

Dortmund definitely lost a few key players and they kept rolling.

I don’t understand tuchel did better with klopp with the same team and this is credited to klopp? The fact is salah would be the best and biggest player he loses. Nothing suggests he would do well without him based off his dortmund days

 

[Chimaera]

Is that due to ability or willingness?

Also, in 2020/21, they had a pretty decent window. Last window they brought in Konate. A couple years ago was the big Keita/Alisson/Fabinho year. Basically they took one year off.

Once again, they spend what they take in. There's no input from ownership beyond 10-15 million a season (if that) and financing.

For Konate, they offset that with Harry Wilson, Shaqiri, Grujic, Taiwo Awoniyi and Gini Wijinaldum (wages off the books) all going out.

Sure, they spent quite a bit with contract renewals, but that's factored in with revenues. The only big splurges they've made have been based upon selling Coutinho for a king's ransom.

There is some money for things. But they're not showing any desire to spend beyond what they take in, and what they can make with sales.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Breathes heavily

 

[robertmac43]

Breathes heavily

Are you going to pass out? lol

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Are you going to pass out? lol

Dybala is their next target.

 

[Evilo]

Wijnaldum has probably been the worst dollar for quality signing in a LONG time.
Maybe he'll turn things around but so far it's amazing how bad he's been.
He's simply hiding from the ball and from everything. No run, no pressing no tackle...

 

[TheLeastOfTheBunch]

The more I think about this though the more I dislike it. I worry that we’re now stuck with him until 2026. I think I’d rather have been stuck with him at the higher wage because he would’ve been gone in 2023. I think he’s still going to be difficult to offload.

It's going to be tough but the breathing room in the salary cap will be a big difference. Will allow them to fit more pieces in next season if needed.

Unrelated note:
Tottenham target right wing-back, midfielder and attacker in January transfer window

"Sources say that FC Barcelona cannot believe that Tottenham offered to pay €30M for Emerson Royal."

Forgot about Emerson, that's looking like a great move in hindsight.

 

[Duchene2MacKinnon]

Are you going to pass out? lol

Feeling lighted headed tbh.

It's going to be tough but the breathing room in the salary cap will be a big difference. Will allow them to fit more pieces in next season if needed.

Unrelated note:
Tottenham target right wing-back, midfielder and attacker in January transfer window

"Sources say that FC Barcelona cannot believe that Tottenham offered to pay €30M for Emerson Royal."

Forgot about Emerson, that's looking like a great move in hindsight.

It was a great move at the time too.

 

[Savant]

Wijnaldum has probably been the worst dollar for quality signing in a LONG time.
Maybe he'll turn things around but so far it's amazing how bad he's been.
He's simply hiding from the ball and from everything. No run, no pressing no tackle...

Wijnaldum to PSG is the definition of a Lose-Lose-Lose. Both teams and the player are worse off.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

Wijnaldum to PSG is the definition of a Lose-Lose-Lose. Both teams and the player are worse off.

I do believe Wijnaldum is a winner. He got his 3 years deal and with a big salary increase.

 

[bluesfan94]

Once again, they spend what they take in. There's no input from ownership beyond 10-15 million a season (if that) and financing.

For Konate, they offset that with Harry Wilson, Shaqiri, Grujic, Taiwo Awoniyi and Gini Wijinaldum (wages off the books) all going out.

Sure, they spent quite a bit with contract renewals, but that's factored in with revenues. The only big splurges they've made have been based upon selling Coutinho for a king's ransom.

There is some money for things. But they're not showing any desire to spend beyond what they take in, and what they can make with sales.

The Coutinho money paid for AOC, VvD, Salah, and Robertson. The season after, they bought Alisson, Keita, Fabinho and Shaqiri while selling Solanke, Ward, and Klavan. That was a substantial investment.

Also you can't give credit for wages off the books and then handwave away increases in wages

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I think it's obvious that Liverpool *could* spend if ownership was so inclined. They just aren't willing to deviate from the model that absolutely maximizes their profits. I don't know that spend what they make necessarily describes that (maybe it does), but I think it's fair to say they've spent to protect the CL and keep nominal pace with their peers.

So it's not the same as your "normal" penny pinching club.

And yeah, I agree with "destitute" being a completely tone deaf way for a supporter to describe a club like Liverpool.

 

[S E P H]

Update with Vlahovic...

- @Savant is right, Dusan's main target is Juve (like every single effin' Serie A player that is not on Juve lol). However, does Juve have the money if you consider that they still have to re-sign Dybala? I am a little scared though because Juve look like they absolutely need a striker since all they have is Kean and Morata.

- Fiorentina want 90 million Euros for him meaning Arsenal would pay around 77 million pounds (not too bad for a player of his quality).

- Arsenal are frontrunners currently from any club, but player has final say.

- Isak will be option two if things fall with Vlahovic.

Bakambu about to sign with OM on a free.

OM need a striker, but I am not sure that's the bloke they should've went after. He's one that should've replaced Ikone at Lille for the time being.

If he leaves, it is a big blow. However, the end of the world would be him AND Klopp, and more importantly, losing him on a free. The club is not rich enough to replace him, and if they got nothing for him, they would be even more destitute.

This is crazy if you believe that. This isn't a disrespect to Liverpool, but you lot have no consistent goalscorers anymore if you'd lose Salah. Mane and Firmino have both regressed and Firmino isn't even coming on that much anymore as a sub. Jota is looking like a solid signing, but going from Salah to just him is destined to fail even if Klopp would still be your lots manager. LFC has shown that they have money problems and the next Salah you'd try to buy would be over 100 million pounds and you won't be getting that much if you'd sell a-soon-to-be UFA like him.

 

[S E P H]

I think it's obvious that Liverpool *could* spend if ownership was so inclined. They just aren't willing to deviate from the model that absolutely maximizes their profits. I don't know that spend what they make necessarily describes that (maybe it does), but I think it's fair to say they've spent to protect the CL and keep nominal pace with their peers.

So it's not the same as your "normal" penny pinching club.

And yeah, I agree with "destitute" being a completely tone deaf way for a supporter to describe a club like Liverpool.

The LFC owner group just bought the Penguins for a little less than 900 million. However, they absolutely have enough funds to pay one player, even if he wants 100 million per year.

 

[JeffreyLFC]

The LFC owner group just bought the Penguins for a little less than 900 million. However, they absolutely have enough funds to pay one player, even if he wants 100 million per year.

They have the funds, they just don't want to pay Salah.

They are basically run based on ROI and monetary sustainability, not feelings. It's obvious that if Salah leave and Firmino and Mane they will sign replacement(s). They probably already have 10 names on their list of replacement. Don't look at Haaland or even Vlahovic. I am thinking more players in the 30-40M bracket. Why? because they want ROI.

 

[cgf]

Without looking at their books it's hard to know whether LFC is being cheap to maximize profits or just being very disciplined like Bayern. Salah is an even higher level player than anyone Bayern let walk, but the principle may not be dissimilar from that which pushed Bayern to let Alaba & Kroos just walk away.

 

[Savant]

Update with Vlahovic...

- @Savant is right, Dusan's main target is Juve (like every single effin' Serie A player that is not on Juve lol). However, does Juve have the money if you consider that they still have to re-sign Dybala? I am a little scared though because Juve look like they absolutely need a striker since all they have is Kean and Morata.

- This isn't a disrespect to Liverpool, but you lot have no consistent goalscorers anymore if you'd lose Salah. Mane and Firmino have both regressed and Firmino isn't even coming on that much anymore as a sub. Jota is looking like a solid signing, but going from Salah to just him is a destined to fail even if Klopp would still be your lots manager. LFC has shown that they have money problems and the next Salah you'd try to buy would be over 100 million pounds and you won't be getting that much if you'd sell a-soon-to-be UFA like him.

I mean, if I could play for any league in the world I’d be playing in Italy or Spain. England wouldn’t be my first choice unless I was English.

Wanted to dissect some of the LFC stuff in here because some is true but most is a bit off. Which is fine.

• Liverpool would still be able to score without Salah, but it would be a very big loss because with the midfield (besides Fabinho) regressing or too young, that’s where LFC would be hurting the most if they have to win scoring with 1-2 goals instead of 2-4 goals.
  
• Firmino has been very banged up this season. That’s why he isn’t getting minutes. He is still plenty good enough.
  
• Mane is a weird one. His goal return looks pretty good all things considered and his underlying numbers check out, but the eye test is not great. He is still good off the ball, but his play with the ball at his feet and his decision making has dropped a bit but luckily…
• …Diogo Jota has really solidified himself. He is LFC’s second best forward. I don’t know if he can carry the offense yet but who knows if he will have to. Even if he isn’t Batman, he is one of the best Robin’s. The player he has reminded me of is pre-Barcelona Griezmann and I think he might have a similar career path
• LFC does not have money problems persay but their model is Net Spend and that’s what they live and die by. The Salah contract is going to be a breaking point with FSG though. I may be in the minority but I do not think it gets done. I think they are content to let him walk like they let Mookie Betts go from the Red Sox. Then they try to outsmart everybody again. I think this is absolutely moronic but there isn’t anything I can do about it either.
• “replacing” Salah will cost more than extending Salah, but FSG might just try to find the next Roma version Salah and bet on themselves again. This team is going to have a facelift in 2023-24 and onward either way

 

[Savant]

Without looking at their books it's hard to know whether LFC is being cheap to maximize profits or just being very disciplined like Bayern. Salah is an even higher level player than anyone Bayern let walk, but the principle may not be dissimilar from that which pushed Bayern to let Alaba & Kroos just walk away.

It’s both. They are being cheap but they are also being disciplined. The difference is Bayern can let those guys walk and it have no long term effect on them because the Bundesliga is not as competitive as PL, and Bayern is top of the food chain. LFC is not at the top of the food chain but bet on themselves to outsmart the other teams. It has worked so far but that strategy likely has an expiration date.

 

[bluesfan94]

I think they are content to let him walk like they let Mookie Betts go from the Red Sox.

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise, but they didn't let Mookie Betts walk for nothing. The corollary would be selling Salah this summer

 

[Savant]

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise, but they didn't let Mookie Betts walk for nothing. The corollary would be selling Salah this summer

Point is FSG is willing to let their best player leave over a not wanting to give them the contract the player wants. We’ve seen this.

I honestly think FSG let Salah play to the end of his contract like Wijnaldum and go from there.