Winnipeg Jets (Version 1.0) General Managers

[cheswick]

People tend to focus on Smith's misses on draft day but he did have some hits. Guys like Khabibulin and Ulanov were drafted in the 9th and tenth rounds and went on to have long NHL careers. The chance of a player drafted so late ever playing in a single game are miniscule.

 

[boanst]

Let's start with, he traded Selanne for Kilger and Tverdovsky...

He also traded for Dave Manson - which only cost Mats Lindgren, Boris Mironov, a 1994 1st round pick (4th overall) and a 1994 4th round pick.

Oh and he traded Essensa for Cheveldae...

Where would you rank him?

Most of the city was happy that Essensa was traded. He got buried in the minors by Detroit the next season. Essensa had fallen far by that point, though I dont recall what his stats were like.

The Selanne trade was definitely horrible.

 

[Hollywood3]

Most of the city was happy that Essensa was traded. He got buried in the minors by Detroit the next season. Essensa had fallen far by that point, though I dont recall what his stats were like.

The Selanne trade was definitely horrible.

The Selanne trade was new owner mandated.

 

[lablite47]

Ever think that maybe Smith's Russian expedition was maybe precipitated and/or encouraged by ownership considering the fact that the Jets of the day were running into financial issues when attempting to compete with their US counterparts with regards to salary compensation. They probably couldn't afford both resign their existing stars as well as keep going down the same road to face the salary escalations that were no doubt being seen on the horizon. Mediocre gate revenues and rapidly shrinking Canadian dollar in the 90s probably forced their hand in going in this direction, strictly in desperation to stay afloat?

 

[DK59]

Mostly because the next two picks after Mann turned out to be Goulet and Lowe.

The number of good players after Mann was insane.

********

To be fair though it is easy to find fault in any GMs draft record because the draft is more or less a crap shoot. In Jimmy Mann's year... 47 picks were done before Messier was picked. All the teams missed on this guy once.

IMO if you want to judge a GM look at player for player trades... known talent for known talent... this will tell you about the GM's ability to judge a player.

The 1979 draft was an interesting one. I remember how Fergie was knocked for the drafting of Jimmy Mann. What was often overlooked was the drafting of Davie Christian and Thomas Steen in that same draft and also drafting a solid stay at home defence man in Tim Watters.

Unfortunately Christian was later traded for a first round pick which turned into Bobby Dollas. Shortly after he was drafted, Dollas was traded for Stu Kulak who played only a part of a season before he was done as an NHL player. That sequence of trades was certainly among the worst that I can remember being made.

 

[macmaroon]

Mike Smith as Columbo

Every time I saw Mike Smith, he would always remind me of Columbo, especially when he wore that white suit (sorry, I couldn't find a picture of it). In interviews, when anyone asked Mike Smith a question, he would always pause to think about what to say. Most of the time, he would not be clean shaven and his tie would be on a bit crooked.

Man, I miss Peter Falk...

 

[DowntownBooster]

Fergie's biggest blunder in my opinion was protecting Scott Campbell over Kent Nilsson when the Jets joined the NHL in '79.

When the Jets joined the NHL they were allowed to protect two players. The other player Fergie protected was Morris Lukowich which was a good choice.

My biggest disappointment with John Ferguson was changing our uniforms (as shown above) when the Jets entered the NHL. We had one of the best looking jerseys in the WHA and then switched to the clones of the rejected version used by the New York Rangers (1976-77 to 1977-78) while he was GM there.

I also agree with jimmy that the Jets should have protected Kent Nilsson instead of Scott Campbell. If not Kent Nilsson, they should have protected Terry Ruskowski.

I did admire Fergie for how much he cared about our city as well as his passion for the team.

 

[cbcwpg]

I did admire Fergie for how much he cared about our city as well as his passion for the team.

That I'll give Fergie... he cared not only about the team, but the city.

Fergie did whatever he could or thought was right to make the team better.

Smith wanted to prove a point... That you could put the Red Army team in Winnipeg as an NHL franchise and they would win. 1992 draft - 12 picks - 9 Russians - Smith got lucky with Khabibulin

And people think Chevy has gone off the map. Smith was going so far off the map the people he was drafting didn't even know what the NHL was.

No proof.. call it speculation, heresay.. whatever... My understanding is that Smith had Shenkarow's ear and went behind Fergie's back to get him fired. Nice guy...

 

[Gm0ney]

Most of the city was happy that Essensa was traded. He got buried in the minors by Detroit the next season. Essensa had fallen far by that point, though I dont recall what his stats were like.

The Selanne trade was definitely horrible.

The Selanne trade was new owner mandated.

I don't recall anyone wanting Essensa out of here. Essensa did struggle in Detroit and was sent to the IHL pretty quickly...but that doesn't change the fact that Cheveldae was a far worse goalie.

The Selanne trade was mandated by the new owners (Burke and Gluckstern?). They didn't want to be paying all three of Tkachuk, Selanne and Zhamnov so instructed Paddock to trade one. Tkachuk couldn't be traded because he signed a Chicago offer sheet at the beginning of the season, which the Jets matched (and you can't trade a guy you sign under those circumstances for 1 year). So the only options were to trade either Selanne or Zhamnov. I guess the return on Zhamnov was worse than Kilgour and Tverdovsky? Maybe Paddock was high on those guys? Don't care. Terrible trade.

 

[Jets4Life]

Let's start with, he traded Selanne for Kilger and Tverdovsky...

He also traded for Dave Manson - which only cost Mats Lindgren, Boris Mironov, a 1994 1st round pick (4th overall) and a 1994 4th round pick.

Oh and he traded Essensa for Cheveldae...

Where would you rank him?

The new owners were responsible for Selanne's departure, since they felt they could not keep him and Tkachuk. The owners felt Tkachuk would be more marketable to Arizona fans, since he spoke perfect English, and was an American citizen.

The Manson trade was not bad. what did Lindgren and Mironov ever do? Although the draft picks were a high price to pay, neither panned out.

The trade of Essensa and Bautin for Drake and Cheveldae was a great trade.

 

[Jets4Life]

I don't recall anyone wanting Essensa out of here. Essensa did struggle in Detroit and was sent to the IHL pretty quickly...but that doesn't change the fact that Cheveldae was a far worse goalie.

Cheveldae's stats were better than Essensa's for the remainder of the Jets 1.0 existance. That's all that matters. Not only that, but you are conveniently leaving out that we got rid of Bautin in the trade for Dallas Drake, a far better player. We won that trade hands-down.

The Selanne trade was mandated by the new owners (Burke and Gluckstern?). They didn't want to be paying all three of Tkachuk, Selanne and Zhamnov so instructed Paddock to trade one.

It was owner mandated The Winnipeg Jets only existed in name, after the end of 1995. By then, all the shots were being called by the new owners, who obviously planned to move the team to Arizona for 1996-97. Paddock's hands were tied, although he should have received more from Anaheim than just spare parts.

 

[Jets4Life]

No proof.. call it speculation, heresay.. whatever... My understanding is that Smith had Shenkarow's ear and went behind Fergie's back to get him fired. Nice guy...

I've heard the same thing. Smith was a manipulative twit. He put his own selfish interests ahead of the Jets organization, whenever he felt like it. Running Hawerchuk out of town, who was the franchise player at the time, was disgusting. He somehow managed to get a good return on the trade, but ran Housley out, after a blow up during a Jets New Year's Party.

He also benched Essensa during his best ever season (1991-92), when he was a Vezina Trophy finalist, since he worried if Essensa played well in the playoffs, the arbitrators would award him more money, as he was set to get a better deal as a RFA. Problem is, the arbitration system doesn't look at post season play, so we had to watch Tabaracci meltdown after game 4, and let in 20 goals in the next 3 games, and lose the series.

What is worse, it killed Essensa's confidence, as he was never the same after that. He did ok for Selanne's rookie season, but after 1994, was relegated to the role of career backup (although he did play well in that role as a Canuck).

 

[KCjetsfan]

The new owners were responsible for Selanne's departure, since they felt they could not keep him and Tkachuk. The owners felt Tkachuk would be more marketable to Arizona fans, since he spoke perfect English, and was an American citizen.

The Manson trade was not bad. what did Lindgren and Mironov ever do? Although the draft picks were a high price to pay, neither panned out.

The trade of Essensa and Bautin for Drake and Cheveldae was a great trade.

Mironov was just a .4 points per game, ok defensively d-man who played about 10 or 12 years in the league. but he was russian and it was all the rage to not like russians. Not even counting the picks and the forgettable Lindgren, I don't do that trade at the time.

 

[Gm0ney]

Cheveldae's stats were better than Essensa's for the remainder of the Jets 1.0 existance. That's all that matters. Not only that, but you are conveniently leaving out that we got rid of Bautin in the trade for Dallas Drake, a far better player. We won that trade hands-down.



It was owner mandated, as much as you are trying to revise history. The Winnipeg Jets only existed in name, after the end of 1995. By then, all the shots were being called by the new owners, who obviously planned to move the team to Arizona for 1996-97. Paddock's hands were tied, although he should have received more from Anaheim than just spare parts.

How am I trying to revise history? He couldn't trade Tkachuk because the Jets matched the Chicago offer sheet. What's the revision?

Hey, I'm perfectly willing to make it Fergie>Paddock>Smith=Chevy

 

[Ryan Giggs]

The Selanne trade was mandated by the new owners (Burke and Gluckstern?). They didn't want to be paying all three of Tkachuk, Selanne and Zhamnov so instructed Paddock to trade one. Tkachuk couldn't be traded because he signed a Chicago offer sheet at the beginning of the season, which the Jets matched (and you can't trade a guy you sign under those circumstances for 1 year). So the only options were to trade either Selanne or Zhamnov. I guess the return on Zhamnov was worse than Kilgour and Tverdovsky? Maybe Paddock was high on those guys? Don't care. Terrible trade.

Errr... didn't the Yotes trade Zhamnov for Jeremy Roenick straight up in the summer the Jets moved south? You'd have to say that was a much better deal for the franchise.

 

[blues10]

How am I trying to revise history? He couldn't trade Tkachuk because the Jets matched the Chicago offer sheet. What's the revision?

Hey, I'm perfectly willing to make it Fergie>Paddock>Smith=Chevy

Yup, matched the sheet within 6 hours and would have got 5 first round picks from the Hawks if they didn't match. Tkachuk became the 3rd highest paid player in the league for a season behind Gretzky and Messier.

Essentially Selanne was traded for 2 - 1st rounders.



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...119_1_hawks-offer-general-manager-bob-pulford

 

[HannuJ]

Dale Hawerchuck said in a recent interview that he asked for trade out of Winnipeg because of his dislike for Mike Smith.

to be fair, the 2 years of Housley (or whatever it was) were pretty darn good.

 

[air jett]

Sometimes I feel nostalgic about the Winnipeg jets 1.0 version

Number of weeks ago I watched on YouTube a game from the 1984-85 season (by far the best NHL jets team in my opinion) in which the jets blew out the flyers. Hawerchuk had 4 assists, and was the best player on the ice, his hockey IQ, vision, and passing was impressive; Carlyle was pretty noticeable in that game as well (the broadcast had a piece on him during one of the intermissions regarding his new commitment to fitness,diet, etc, the look of barely concealed disdain on carlyle's face while he is being interviewed in the segment is priceless!- certainly gives the impression that the stories that he was arrogant/ kind of a miserable SOB were probably true, but he certainly showed that "truculence" on the ice, easily the jets most physical player in that game)

I wonder if it would be possible to have a continuous permanent thread on this forum discussing matters related to Winnipeg Jets 1.0?

I would certainly like to hear others memories related to the old teams. one curiosity I have is about the 1980-81 team that went 30 games without a win, I wonder what the experience of the fans were like at the time; I mean, can you imagine if what this place would be like if we went 30 games without a win next year! (though I hear this mcdavid guy might b able to play hockey........)

 

[Hank Chinaski]

He also benched Essensa during his best ever season (1991-92), when he was a Vezina Trophy finalist, since he worried if Essensa played well in the playoffs, the arbitrators would award him more money, as he was set to get a better deal as a RFA. Problem is, the arbitration system doesn't look at post season play, so we had to watch Tabaracci meltdown after game 4, and let in 20 goals in the next 3 games, and lose the series.

What is worse, it killed Essensa's confidence, as he was never the same after that. He did ok for Selanne's rookie season, but after 1994, was relegated to the role of career backup (although he did play well in that role as a Canuck).

That's a really interesting take on that situation, thanks for sharing. I've always wondered why they sat Essensa in favour of Tabaracci during the 1992 playoffs.

I can only imagine the reaction to that if HFBoards was around in those days.

The new owners were responsible for Selanne's departure, since they felt they could not keep him and Tkachuk. The owners felt Tkachuk would be more marketable to Arizona fans, since he spoke perfect English, and was an American citizen.

The Manson trade was not bad. what did Lindgren and Mironov ever do? Although the draft picks were a high price to pay, neither panned out.

The trade of Essensa and Bautin for Drake and Cheveldae was a great trade.

Manson was a really polarizing player from what I remember. "Charlie" wasn't a great skater and would make some absolutely terrible decisions, but he had a booming shot and could really bring it physically. Pretty good on the PP as well, at least from what I remember.

Don't know if I'd call the Essensa trade a great one. Granted, Drake was a really solid middle-six player. Cheveldae was pretty bad his entire time in Winnipeg, and ended up being a clear step down from Goalie Bob.

 

[Jets4Life]

Say what you will, but John Ferguson built some legitimate playoff teams here. Smith kinda sucked, but he did draft Stu Barnes, Kris Draper, Disco Dan Bylsma, Davydov, Tkachuk and Zhamnov in his first two drafts. Things kinda went off the rails after that though.

What's Chevy done? Scheifele + Trouba > Tkachuk + Zhamnov?

As of right now, I'd rank them: Ferguson > Smith = Chevy > Paddock

It's a bit of apples-to-oranges...man they used to make a lot of moves back in the day. Not all blockbusters, but lots of roster players moved around...different waiver rules back then, I guess?

Stu Barnes: Traded to Florida for Randy Gilhen. Barnes went on to play over 1000 NHL games, be instrumental in leading Buffalo and Florida to the Stanley Cup Final, and played a 17 year career. Gilhen was 30 when the trade was made, and never rose above mediocrity.

Kris Draper: Smith traded Draper for $1 in 1993. Draper went on to win 4 Stanley Cups with Detriot, was arguably the best defensive forward for his 20 year career, and won the Selke Trophy in 2003-04. He also lead Canada to the Gold in the World Championships, and played on the 2006 Olympic team.

Dan Bylsma: a nobody, and a journeyman. Only became a household name after retiring to coach the Penguins to a 2009 Stanley Cup.

Evgeni Davydov: had one good season for the Jets, before fizzling out, and losing his passion for the game. Career journeyman, minor leaguer.

Let's not forget Smith was responsible for getting rid of Hawerchuk (franchise player), and Phil Housley (best defensemen Jets 1.0 ever had). Smith also bombed in the draft by picking Bautin and Lindgren for 2 of his 5 first round picks.

Only thing Smith got right was drafting Tkachuk, Khabiboulin, and Zhamnov (who was arguably overrated).

PS...It's still early. Trouba could become a better hockey player than Tkachuk or Zhamnov.

I would rank the GM's as follows: Chevy > Ferguson > Paddock > Smith


It's funny so many people were critical of Chevy when this thread was more active. Now one can make a case that he is the best GM the Winnipeg Jets ever hired.

 

[Ducky10]

The Jets only being able to protect two players really neutered the team, Fergie blew it by choosing Campbell, really inexplicable considering his documented health issues. His drafting was completely hit or miss, it was his tendency to draft for need instead of taking the best players available that really hurt him. There is no forgiving or defending taking Jimmy Mann in the first round..... none. In hindsight about his only other big miss was 1980 when he took Babych 2nd overall, granted Babych turned out to be a serviceable player but missing out on Savard or Murphy or Coffey was a bit perplexing. It was a deep draft and Fergie liked Babych's size but underestimated his toughness, he was always a rather soft big guy, very un Fergie like.

He did draft some fine players and like most other GM's drafted some that just simply should have been better than they were, McBain ahead of Neely stands out but in that draft year McBain put up 120 points in junior and Neely (who had done that the previous year) had been hurt. McBain just should have been a better player and Neely ended up getting dealt by the 'Nucks and didn't turn into the NHL'er he ended up being until Boston.

Having said all that it's quite amazing Fergie put together a team that finished 4th overall in 84-85, quite an achievement as far as 5 year plans go . Alas he had no patience and his desperation to beat the Oilers clouded his judgement.

Smith was a smug intellect and a power tripper. His arrogance and insistence on always having to be the smartest guy in the room was his biggest undoing. He had some good ideas and made some good moves but his failure to relate to the existing climate of the league and show a modicum of respect for guys like Hawerchuk was a huge failure. It seemed Smith's entire goal was to make Fergie look like a complete idiot by reshaping the team in the most drastic way possible.

Paddock just never had a chance, I loved him for what a straight shooter he was. I think if things were different and the stability of the team was never in doubt he could have been very successful, he inherited some really good players to build with.

I like what Chevy has done so far in the big picture, considering how different the league is today with the cap and changes to free agency it's really hard to compare but he has his team headed in the right direction.

 

[HannuJ]

Dale Hawerchuck said in a recent interview that he asked for trade out of Winnipeg because of his dislike for Mike Smith.

things were going sour before Smith took over. i remember there being a few articles about Ducky being unhappy.
better than Phil Housley, who, if memory serves me correctly, walked up to Smith during the Xmas party and started messing his hair up. Housley wanted out, which is a shame, since his career years were in Wpg.

also, let's not re-write Fergie's history. HORRIBLE drafter. made dumb trades. could never surround Ducky with any talent.

 

[HannuJ]

That I'll give Fergie... he cared not only about the team, but the city.

Fergie did whatever he could or thought was right to make the team better.

i remember watching a (one of the 15 a season) televised game. The refs blew a call and Fergie was so pissed that he marched down from the GM box to scream at them. the camera caught him storming down.

 

[Jet]

2 points then I'm out as I know my opinion won't be shared by many:

Mike Smith was a visionary and made the Jets competitive when they had no money to be competitive.

People criticize him but he was in an impossible situation. He pretty much single handedly brought a dynamic new talent pool in into the NHL.

You might be quick to call him out for Bautin, but it's hilarious that you don't mention Zhamnov, Davydov, Korolev, Ulanov, Mironov, & Khabibulin.

I cannot imagine how awful the Jets would have been without our Russian players. We might not have won the cup, but damn we were entertaining to watch!

Also, Marchment was hardly a dud. A pos, sure, but not a dud.

 

[Curt in WPG]

i remember watching a (one of the 15 a season) televised game. The refs blew a call and Fergie was so pissed that he marched down from the GM box to scream at them. the camera caught him storming down.

Fergie's box in the old pressbox was glassed after he threw a telephone out duing a game. Only thing that prevented it from falling and hitting a fan was the cord stayed attached. He was a rather passionate person

Fergie did make some dumb trades but he did it trying to get past Edmonton and Calgary in the playoffs. I remember he saying that after a good year (one good, one bad, repeat forever sigh) he felt if he didn't do anything what if Messier got hurt one year and the jets were that close beating them in the playoffs> Whoever won the Smyth Division was almost a lock to be in the Finals as the Norris was so terrible. So some of the trades he made screwed us up chemistry wise.

He kept Scott Campbell in 1979 as he was a good tough D-man with a mean streak (also a fun follow on twitter I may add), something we had nothing like. Who knew Campbell was going to be so injury prone?He thought he had deals in place to keep Terry Rekowski (sp?) and Rich Preston from going back to the Hawks. We got killed more than any other WHA team coming into the NHL.