Winnipeg Jets going into the 24/25 season

[bustamente]

It was sad as we watched the Avs line up 2 guys in front of Helle on the pp and the Jets not being able or not wanting to clear the front. Yes we need better puck moving D when other team pressure them but we need more size back their too.

 

[Heldig]

*Jack McBain
* Victor Söderström

Soderstrom is very likely available. McBain not likely.

 

[Weezeric]

It was sad as we watched the Avs line up 2 guys in front of Helle on the pp and the Jets not being able or not wanting to clear the front. Yes we need better puck moving D when other team pressure them but we need more size back their too.

It was funny that there are so many fans that hated Bowness’ strategy of going low to high and getting pucks on net. Not modern enough for them.Then the Avs scored 10+ goals that way in five games.

 

[Channelcat]

It was funny that there are so many fans that hated Bowness’ strategy of going low to high and getting pucks on net. Not modern enough for them.Then the Avs scored 10+ goals that way in five games.

If only we had Eysemont, Kovo, Chisholm and Capo..... probably would have won the cup.

 

[Jack7222]

I dunno if it matters what Helle wants. To me possibly the biggest issue with the Avs series was that we had a lot of trouble moving the puck out of the dzone with control. I think we need players who help with that transition

 

[gojetsgo]

heinola pretty much made the team then got hurt then we were playing very good so he didn't get his chance after he was injured, this was the first training camp since his rookie season where you could actually think that he belonged

people love to bring up sbisa/beaulieu's playing over him but until this year he did not look ready when he had his chance... could he have been better then those guys? yes, but just because he was better then those two doesn't mean he was ready for the nhl and it could have potentially hurt his development by rushing him in

 

[razorsedge]

New coach. Nothing against Bowness, but it's time to move forward. We need help on D, but with no high draft picks or ability to lose a top 6 forward, lineup probably won't change much in the off-season.

 

[Jet]

You had me until the Moose part. If they wanted a better Moose team they would just sign more Sgarbossa's and Griffiths.

Lambert needed a reset to his career after being rushed to a pro team. That nearly destroyed his career.

I can't believe anyone would be upset over little Chibi needing to gain some strength.

Heinola, I get it. People fail to understand that the AHL isn't just shitty NHL. You can get away with a small tool box of high skills. Sorry, it takes more than that in the NHL. Heinola needs to be able to play defense and cause turnovers. There is a myth that this skill isn't needed. He should just be able to stand around waiting for the other 4 players to turn the puck over and give it to him. It doesn't work that way.

I dint think Chibrikovs size is much of an issue for 2 reasons:

1> he fares pretty well in traffic and isn't afraid to go there
2> he has what you need to be successful as a smaller guy - speed and agility

Ofc he needs to get stronger but I dint think it's a barrier to him taking the next step.

He fared really well in his first pro season and seems quite mature.

 

[TS Quint]

I dunno if it matters what Helle wants. To me possibly the biggest issue with the Avs series was that we had a lot of trouble moving the puck out of the dzone with control. I think we need players who help with that transition

When you let in a record number of goals and the goaltender couldn't see half of them that's a pretty big priority to fix.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah - back to that risk adverse, loyal to a fault formula.

Pavelec
Stuart
Wheeler
Schmidt

I'm sure I'm missing others.

I know that we have to be good to our players - it's how we've done better than other undesirable markets at attracting talent, but at some point, it is going to start hurting the team in a recruitment/ retention sense (if it hasn't already). You don't want to pull shit like what Vegas did with Fleury, but at the same time, players want to win and keeping/ playing bad players has to piss off the other guys.

Like if you did a blind poll on the Jets after like game 2 and said - should we be playing Pionk right now or should we bring in Miller - I would not be surprised if many players would vote to sit him.


Yeah, unfortunately after saying that I did watch John Lu essentially comment that Bones said 'it won't happen again on my watch' which means he's back.

I honestly am not against it IF we make some key player changes and IF we move on from Brad Lauer. The special teams simply cannot be as bad as they were this year.

I disliked a lot of Bones' lineup decisions, especially in the PO. Some were just head scratchers. Others were almost unbelievable in real time.

The worst one was his insistence on playing Scheifele and Connor together. Each of them is better without the other. That has been demonstrated time and again. It is not just some advanced stats theory.

Clearly Bones did some things well but, for me, the only way I would be comfortable with another season with Bones is if Connor is traded. I won't even get into a KC vs Ehlers thing. Maybe Ehlers is gone too. But break up Scheif and Connor. The only way that happens is if they are not on the same team.

Agree about ST. I'm puzzled about Lauer though. Last season he was credited with a big improvement in our ST. We even got to see a with and without Lauer. Was that a mirage? Was Lauer overruled this season? Is it possible that he was responsible for good ST last year and epically bad ST this year? Whoever was responsible for ST this year has to go. Lauer or Bones or both.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I think this is the only relevant reason, and it's also one that should force that trade to happen.

Even if we could keep both, one of the two ruins Scheifele. The other elevates him. We don't have the C depth to have Connor drag Scheifele down to mediocrity at 5v5.

We need either a coach who recognises this and deploys the players accordingly, or we need Chevy to force the coach's hand.

I would have it written right into the contract - firing offense.

 

[Weezeric]

I disliked a lot of Bones' lineup decisions, especially in the PO. Some were just head scratchers. Others were almost unbelievable in real time.

The worst one was his insistence on playing Scheifele and Connor together. Each of them is better without the other. That has been demonstrated time and again. It is not just some advanced stats theory.

Clearly Bones did some things well but, for me, the only way I would be comfortable with another season with Bones is if Connor is traded. I won't even get into a KC vs Ehlers thing. Maybe Ehlers is gone too. But break up Scheif and Connor. The only way that happens is if they are not on the same team.

Agree about ST. I'm puzzled about Lauer though. Last season he was credited with a big improvement in our ST. We even got to see a with and without Lauer. Was that a mirage? Was Lauer overruled this season? Is it possible that he was responsible for good ST last year and epically bad ST this year? Whoever was responsible for ST this year has to go. Lauer or Bones or both.

I hope they staple Perfetti and Scheifele together next year. They seem like buddies and I think their games would complement each other nicely.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think you give them enough credit.

Chipman isn't some pleb who got money from his dad and stumbled along business. He's a very successful astute business leader who has been in the hockey game for over 30 years.

While I do think they were a bit naive as to think the fan gravy train on their return would last forever, I have no doubt they are getting really plugged into the why's and are addressing them.

For me, the jeopardy is how much the org weights internal loyalty and how that affects their player sourcing model - and how they weight that with fan retention data.

I don't disagree. But I think Chipman sees stability as a virtue in its own right. It trickles down from the top.

I agree that they are trying. They keep doing fan surveys and hinting that they are listening. But do you think that they don't see this past season as a success? Finished 4th OA in the league. Contended for the Presidents Trophy for much of the season. Goalie nominated for the Vezina. Coach nominated for the Adams. I could go on. But the PO showed that all of that accomplishment was just fluff. It showed where that 'frauds' comment came from.

It is not that they lost in the first rd. It is that they were never in that series, even after that 1st game win. It was not even close in any way at any time. I would have been just as disappointed with going out that way regardless of which rd it was in, even the SCF. There are probably teams that missed the PO that would have given Avs a better fight.

I don't know right now how I am going to feel next year about buying tickets. A good start won't encourage me to part with my money. Maybe I will look for good play after the ASB and start attending games if it is there. I just don't know right now. This roller-coaster ride of high hopes and then absolutely crushed hope is exhausting.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't even care at this point if Chibrikov is "ready", anything is better than the heartless cowards on this team who fold every post season without even putting up a fight.

I just want to see some change. But Apples out is an extremely minor change, there needs to be much bigger change than that.

I'd love to see Helle gone, wish he was traded last off-season. We have a large enough sample size to say with great confidence that he is one of those players who does not show up for high pressure games. We will never get anywhere with him, so I already know what the next seven years will bring.

BUT ... since that isn't happening, at least take a chainsaw to the rest of this roster. I'd keep Scheifele, Morrisey, and Lowry and literally get rid of everyone else to remove the stench of the past few seasons and do a major re-set. I know lots of people love Ehlers, but I'd trade him not because anything against him but because MASSIVE changes are needed not this BS nibbling around the edges we get every off-season.

I agree about change but:
I get the criticism of Apples, but all he did this year was score 14 G, 36 pts playing on the 3rd line. He was a big part of making that 3rd line more successful offensively. It would be different if he was making 4+ mil, but for a little over 2 mil he is very good value. He works hard every game. Sure he makes mistakes. Who doesn't? Anyway, he is among the few that I would not move unless we got value + for him, considering his contract.

Helle has disappointed in the last 2 PO seasons. But prior to that he went .922 in 18 followed by .913, .904, .931 so he has been more good than bad in the PO. Those 4 PO add up to 35 games vs the 10 games of the last 2 years.

That said, I would trade Helle if we could get a good return for him. Sign Brossoit to be the starter for a couple of years.

But all of this talk of massive change is futile. We are probably going to have Bones back. I won't be surprised to see Monahan signed. I doubt there will be any major trades.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

The problem is the NHL is two separate distinctive seasons, and to succeed to the fullest in each requires two different types of teams, or if you are lucky, a team built that can succeed in both.

The Jets are built for succeeding in the regular season, but not the playoffs. Chevy needs to build a team that succeed in the playoffs, but is still good enough during the 82 game play-in tournament , to make the playoffs.

The problem , as I see it, with the Jets is TNSE has mandated to Chevy that their only goal is making the playoffs. They have so much as said this themselves, and they measure success just on that one goal. Making the playoffs is all they care about. Succeeding in the playoffs is just a lucky coincidence.

That's because they think that will sell the most tickets. I think they are wrong in that.

Ending the season with that bad taste in the mouth and no reason to expect better going forward is not the way to sell tickets. Hope sells better than bitter disappointment.

Now do the same thing but in the playoffs. Connor has almost as many goals in the abomination of a playoffs as Ehlers has in his entire playoff career. One certainly steps up more than the other.

Obvious conclusion based on small samples. I think you would see a different picture if usage changed.

 

[DRW204]

trading helle after 100+ pt season, & less than a year into signing a 7-year deal to stay here.... yeah ok.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

PLease.....no more "all in trades..." at the TDL unless they need to get rid of someone....

I can't remember how the draft seeding goes from the PO. I think that if you didn't win a Div and go out in the first rd, your seeding is based on that PO exit. Yes, no?

We were 2nd out so our pick is 18 OA. Can that be right?

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

In my opinion, it was a worthwhile gamble. It's not like we were sacrificing Celebrini.

I was in favour at the time, though I thought we should have paid even a little more and gone for Lindholm. I'm not going to criticize the move now. I would like the pick back though, in hindsight.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Agreed BUT ... we're not talking about (over)reacting to one bad playoff result. We're talking about six years consecutive of the same crap. It's time to overreact, because not reacting at all has not helped anything.

Has it hurt? I don't think you can say. Even added up, it is a small sample. You also need to look at the context of the whole team and his line. Ehlers had 2A in 5 gms. His C, Monahan had 1A in 5 games. That's just looking at this last PO but what might Ehlers' PO record have looked like if he had been given Connor' spot? No way to know, of course.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

KC and Lucius for Brady Tkachuk
Ehlers and Stanley for Konecny

Tkachuk Scheif Volare
Perfetti Monahan Konecny
Nino Names Lambert
Barron Lowry Apples

JMo Pesce
Ville DeMelo
Samberg Miller

Helle ?

Doesn't look too bad but I question that first trade. Lucius' value is extremely low and KC is nowhere near worth Tkachuk. Have to add a pretty big piece.
Konecny has been even less productive than Ehlers in the PO.

I like that D corps. Might swap Samberg and Ville.

 

[jungles]

It was sad as we watched the Avs line up 2 guys in front of Helle on the pp and the Jets not being able or not wanting to clear the front. Yes we need better puck moving D when other team pressure them but we need more size back their too.

It had to have been strategy to ignore those guys, because we did it so consistently.

heinola pretty much made the team then got hurt then we were playing very good so he didn't get his chance after he was injured, this was the first training camp since his rookie season where you could actually think that he belonged

people love to bring up sbisa/beaulieu's playing over him but until this year he did not look ready when he had his chance... could he have been better then those guys? yes, but just because he was better then those two doesn't mean he was ready for the nhl and it could have potentially hurt his development by rushing him in

Holy crap I completely forgot Sbisa was on our team at one point. That's wild.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

2C and RHD are shaping up to be long term issues. I think it's time to look at Lambert and Solo in those roles as rookies

I'm not sure how the SEL compares to the AHL in terms of quality, but solomansson showed extremely well there vs grown men

I do have some reservations about rushing Lambert after his history of playing at levels before he might have been 100% ready

Agree about Salmon. Lambert looked very good in his one game. But I think you continue with placeholders at 2C for a while longer. Bring Lambert up next year but play him in a sheltered role, maybe on a wing. Give him time to acclimate before putting 2C pressure on him. Probably have to shelter Salo too for a while. Just adjusting to the smaller ice surface will take at least a little while and everything will happen faster in the NHL.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

For those expecting big changes this offseason i think you are going to be disappointed. After all, this is the Jets you are talking about. I believe the Jets brass view this season as a huge success. After watching Boneheads post game interview I have no doubt that he will be back. Bones return will lead Cole Perfetti to ask for a trade and I don't blame him. Bones completely f***ed Cole over this year. Ehlers, who is no doubt tired of Bones different standards for different players, will not sign an extension and will be traded this offseason.

Afraid so. I posted earlier that I doubt there will be any big trades but there will likely be 1, Ehlers. I just hope we get a good return.

If Cole wants out will he refuse to sign for longer than 1 year? I guess that is not the best way for him to go. He will be easier to trade if he is under contract. So, 2 year bridge deal. Not a lot of money.

I can't remember his exact words, but he was interviewed, I think shortly after the draft. I don't recall the exact question either but something about how he thought he would fit into the Jets systems. He said something like he would be happy with any system, as long as it allowed him to play his game and be creative. I think that says quite a bit about his future with the Jets.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Even in its heyday, NHLe was largely hocus pocus. I knew it had problems when it was projecting Burmistrov's KHL production as a 45-50 point NHLer despite having laid several eggs in the NHL and AHL. NHLe never adjusted for PP production and so the only way it could even remotely translate would be to give the same player the same usage from league to league. Its basically impossible to properly adjust scoring rates within the NHL from era to era (as hard as they try) let alone from league to league.

Agree - but a rough equivalency can be inferred by looking at that data. At least it gives some comparison between Euro leagues. You just need to be careful of expecting too much from the NHLe's.

 

[Jack7222]

When you let in a record number of goals and the goaltender couldn't see half of them that's a pretty big priority to fix.

It is, but there is more than one way to address that problem. Ideally if we had been able to move the puck more cleanly out of our end we alleviate a lot of the pressure Avs were continually putting on us, and we force them to back off into defensive positions so they're not always simply setting up however they like in our zone..