GDT: Winnipeg @ Calgary: Sept 30th 7:00 PM MT (NOT on TV)

[Johnny Hoxville]

Guys, talk to me about Bennett.

 

[King In The North]

Is Bennett 19 yet?

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Guys, talk to me about Bennett.

If, hypothetically, Monahan got injured, Bennett would become a Hart Trophy candidate.

 

[WeegarUnderwood]

If, hypothetically, Monahan got injured, Bennett would become a Hart Trophy candidate.

Even if Monahan got hurt, and Bennett panned out, he's still number 2 behind Gaudreau. How you gonna a candidate for the hart when you're not the best player on your team

I mean, I know about Malkin and Crosby but that's another tier

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Even if Monahan got hurt, and Bennett panned out, he's still number 2 behind Gaudreau. How you gonna compete for the hart when you're not the best player on your team

It's possible and precedented to have two linemates place top ten in Hart voting. Besides, Bennett > Gaudreau at everything except scoring, and if Monahan got hurt, Bennett would play with Gaudreau (5v5, PP1, 3v3) and the scoring difference wouldn't be significant since Bennett's offensive game is ridiculously good when he plays with talent. The more complete player would have an edge in overall voting too, like Toews did over Kane until Kane won an Art Ross. I mean Getzlaf and Perry both have top Hart finishes. Both Sedins do. MSL and Stamkos.

An 80 point, Top 15 Two-way, Captain-type physical leadership player... that's basically what Bennett is if we weren't stuck on "Sean Monahan! 30 Goalz!" and "You have to earn your way up the glass ceiling" Sam Bennett.

 

[Volica]

Pretty fun game

Flames still had trouble doing anything at 5v5 but they stifled the jets pretty well apart from some incredible individual efforts from Laine and Scheifee

Sign Jagr

If the Flames could simply shut teams down on 5 on 5 most nights; and win the specialty teams battle every night; they'd be in a good position to take it all.

This preseason's got me hyped up on Bennett, in a major way; but I said that last year too. He's going to haul around that third line to make them effective this year.

 

[WeegarUnderwood]

It's possible and precedented to have two linemates place top ten in Hart voting. Besides, Bennett > Gaudreau at everything except scoring, and if Monahan got hurt, Bennett would play with Gaudreau (5v5, PP1, 3v3) and the scoring difference wouldn't be significant since Bennett's offensive game is ridiculously good when he plays with talent. The more complete player would have an edge in overall voting too, like Toews did over Kane until Kane won an Art Ross. I mean Getzlaf and Perry both have top Hart finishes. Both Sedins do. MSL and Stamkos.

An 80 point, Top 15 Two-way, Captain-type physical leadership player... that's basically what Bennett is if we weren't stuck on "Sean Monahan! 30 Goalz!" and "You have to earn your way up the glass ceiling" Sam Bennett.

The last time two linemates were both top 10 in hart votes was MSL and Stammer in 12-13 but even then they didn't get a lot of votes as they finished 9th and 10th. It happened again in 10-11 with the Sedins twins but yet again, Daniel got way more votes than Henrik and Hank was 10th in votes. The last time two teammates (excluding goalies) received a respectable amount of votes was in 12-13 with Toews and Kane and even then they weren't linemates often. Kane played with Bolland and Sharp mainly. Usually when you got two good linemates (like MSL and Stammer or Ovi and Backstrom) you see the better player get most of the votes. There was a year where Stammer got way more votes than MSL and also year where MSL got way more votes. Even when Perry won the hart, Getzlaf didn't get nearly as many votes nor was he top 10.

To me a true hart candidate is top 5ish. Usually there's a big drop off after 3 and then again after 5/6. One fifth place vote or something wouldn't constitute a hart candidate season to me personally. I only went back to the start of the decade in my research but I think it's a nice enough sample size.

This was the site I used

https://www.hockey-reference.com/awards/voting-2017.html

I just clicked through previous years and looked at votes. I may have missed some so maybe look it over or go deeper than I did. I excluded goalies because that's not really relatable imo

Gaudreau without Bennett is better than Bennett without Gaudreau. Gaudreau is better in offense and can create more by a good margin and that margin is enough for me to take him over Bennett even if Bennett becomes a nice two way player. And also, those names I mentioned are some of the best players of this generation. I don't think Bennett becomes as good as any even if he pans out the way I think he could, like I highly doubt he becomes as good as Toews. Btw, you have very high expectations for Bennett haha. I hope they pan out

Good morning

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

I agree with OKG that Bennett “could” emerge as our top player. He has literally has every tool that you could like, size, blazing speed, physicality, great 2 way play, and yes, elite offensive upside.

Development is funny with players but I’ve watched this game long enough to know that players are far from a finished product at the early stage that Bennett is at. He also plays a far more complex game than Gaudreau (like Tkachuk does) which is a power game while possessing that elite skill, trying to be responsible both ways and playing the position of a C. Gaudreau had 2 more developmental years over Bennett as well.

Now I have no idea what Bennett will end up as because I don’t have a crystal ball, but I do know his ceiling is enormously high.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I agree with OKG that Bennett “could” emerge as our top player. He has literally has every tool that you could like, size, blazing speed, physicality, great 2 way play, and yes, elite offensive upside.

Development is funny with players but I’ve watched this game long enough to know that players are far from a finished product at the early stage that Bennett is at. He also plays a far more complex game than Gaudreau (like Tkachuk does) which is a power game while possessing that elite skill, trying to be responsible both ways and playing the position of a C. Gaudreau had 2 more developmental years over Bennett as well.

Now I have no idea what Bennett will end up as because I don’t have a crystal ball, but I do know his ceiling is enormously high.

The problem at this point is not Bennett, or even where he is in his development - it's Bennett's usage. Sporadic PP2 time split with Frolik. Constantly playing with Brouwer. Sporadic 3 on 3 time AFTER Gaudreau/Monahan/Backlund/Frolik. Weak 5v5 linemates (Versteeg is good but on a good line he is the third wheel, and Brouwer even in a good game like last night manages to accomplish very little due to what appears to be terrible hockey sense).

How does Bennett take his rightful throne? Even playing well won't displace an inferior player who is also going to play well.

Honestly I have Bennett capping out at a 45-46 point season through no fault of his own this year. And that's a player who could be PPG if used correctly THIS year. Think Scheifele while he was buried behind Little. He EXPLODED after Little got hurt, but he may still be a 2C without that happening.

 

[SaintMorose]

Guys, talk to me about Bennett.

He looks like a better version of Backlund to me quick skilled and tenacious on the puck both ends of the ice.

Bennett is stronger a better skater and has better offensive tools. We waited from the 2007 draft to 2013-14 (24) for Backlund to break out and last year he was our best forward as a 27 year old.

Bennett will break out this year or next (ahead of Backlund's dev. curve) and within 2 years I won't be surprised if he's our best forward.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

I think the Flames are a top 5 team this year. Not out of the gates. But I like our team. The Brodie-Hamonic pair is the key imo.

 

[BigRangy]

I think the Flames are a top 5 team this year. Not out of the gates. But I like our team. The Brodie-Hamonic pair is the key imo.

If everything goes right then I can see it. But Smith would hve to be a stud, Gio would have to be Norris Gio, Bennett would need to be a low end 1C hidden on the third line, and BroHam would need to rebound from both of their poor seasons last year.

In general I don't think people familiar with middling teams (and the Flames have been middlig for a long time) really appreciate how deep and skilled the top teams are.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

I think the Flames are a top 5 team this year. Not out of the gates. But I like our team. The Brodie-Hamonic pair is the key imo.

Top 5? I say as a Flames fan that's a bit optimistic... I feel puck possession might struggle and cost us many games. Our bottom line wingers/D - Brouwer/Lazar/Glass/Bartkowski/Stone are all bad possession players when usually you want to shelter the bottom of your lineup in the offensive zone. It would be nice if we had dependable depth options like Schlemko/Byron/Chiasson. Our biggest hope is rookies who Gulutzan will have to actually play (Kulak/Jankowski) and a step forward from Lazar.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

If everything goes right then I can see it. But Smith would hve to be a stud, Gio would have to be Norris Gio, Bennett would need to be a low end 1C hidden on the third line, and BroHam would need to rebound from both of their poor seasons last year.

In general I don't think people familiar with middling teams (and the Flames have been middlig for a long time) really appreciate how deep and skilled the top teams are.

To me there is the Penguins and then about 10 other teams that are really good. I think we are in that group. People forget how young our forwards are.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

He looks like a better version of Backlund to me quick skilled and tenacious on the puck both ends of the ice.

Bennett is stronger a better skater and has better offensive tools. We waited from the 2007 draft to 2013-14 (24) for Backlund to break out and last year he was our best forward as a 27 year old.

Bennett will break out this year or next (ahead of Backlund's dev. curve) and within 2 years I won't be surprised if he's our best forward.

If he's a better version of Backlund, then he should easily be able to crush possession numbers, drag Brouwer's useless ass around the ice, and put up half a point per game in 3rd line minutes. Let's see him actually do even one of those things before we anoint him King of the Flames.

He looks very toolsy, but his results are bad across the board, and you simply cannot blame that entirely on Brouwer and "only" getting 2nd PP unit minutes. This kid spent the entirety of last season stickhandling himself into corners, and trying to dangle through the centre of the ice and losing the puck multiple times in a row. Until he figures out mentally how to effectively play in the NHL, he's not going to be any of the things you and OKG are talking about.

 

[Skobel24]

I think the Flames are a top 5 team this year. Not out of the gates. But I like our team. The Brodie-Hamonic pair is the key imo.

I actually disagree. I think the key is splitting them apart. Go back to Brodie with Stone, and have Hamonic with Kulak/Andersson.

 

[Mobiandi]

The million dollar question for us is: Where will the scoring come from?

The 3M line kept our season alive for large stretches of the season but to expect them to put up the same numbers under the same deployment is asking for too much imo. We know Johnny and Sean should have good numbers but I think there needs to be some line juggling for us to maximize our offense, especially on the PP if anything. How neither Gio nor Hamilton are on the top unit is baffling.

 

[Calgareee]

One thing that I found encouraging (from the Winnipeg board) was that the 3M line was matched directly against the Ehlers/Little/Laine and at 5v5 they didn't have a Corsi event until 5 minutes left in the game.

 

[Anglesmith]

One thing that I found encouraging (from the Winnipeg board) was that the 3M line was matched directly against the Ehlers/Little/Laine and at 5v5 they didn't have a Corsi event until 5 minutes left in the game.

They really shut down that line, eh?

 

[Mobiandi]

I wonder, did the 3M line have any success when deployed against the McDavid line last year? I think putting them out with BroHam against their top line is an avenue worth exploring on Wednesday.

Also frees up Johnny, Mony, and Dougie to do some damage offensively against an Edmonton defense that is a bit shaky after Larsson-Klefbom

 

[DFF]

I think the Flames are a top 5 team this year. Not out of the gates. But I like our team. The Brodie-Hamonic pair is the key imo.

They can be top 5 or bottom 5, that's how I feel. Smith will make mistakes but he steps up and be a real #1 then they have a chance.

Also Gaudreau needs to be Gaudreau and Bennett needs to step up.

 

[Baxterman]

Top 5 seems pretty unlikely to me because of the big questions we have in net and up front.

I know everyone is in love with the 3m line but last year was a really lucky season from them offensively and I doubt we see a repeat of that. Also the 3rd line is a real concern offensively as well and no matter what the combination is its tough to see much offense from the 4th line. That puts a lot of pressure on the defense having another great offensive season.

I think Smith is a terrible goalie so I am not expecting much from him but to get to top 5 he would have to be better than average, maybe not top 5 but I think at least a top 10 guy and I don't see that.

I think we will be fighting for 3rd in the division and the last WC spot with the likelihood of finishing 6-10 in the conference.

 

[Anglesmith]

Lucky in what sense? Hasn't their hallmark always been insane possession numbers?

 

[Baxterman]

Lucky in the sense that it was higher offensive numbers than expected for all 3 guys and lucky in the sense of watching all the games last year and they had a ton of fluke/bad goals.

Backlund and Frolik are not terribly good offensively or creative players and Tkachuk is hard to tell because of how you he is so I see them struggling to match those numbers again with such little offensive talent between them.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

You guys are all down on Smith. I've always been a mike Smith fan (never a Brian Elliot fan).

I think that's why I'm high on our team and you guys aren't.

Our forward depth is honestly pretty good if Janko, Bennett and Versteeg can chip in.