Confirmed with Link: Wings re-sign Cleary to a one-year deal for 950k

[WingedWheel1987]

So it's not signing Weiss, signing Alfredsson, signing Tootoo, keeping Emmerton, keeping Sammy, keeping Bert, having Tatar up, having Andersson up, Kindl bumped to 2.4, Howard bumped to 5.2... no, the big reason there wasn't 900k available for Nyquist was Cleary.

You guys.

lol

You are the only person who believes it wasn't Cleary that caused Nyquist to be sent down.

The money wasn't the issue, it was the roster spot. You try so hard to defend something that is indefensible just because it would make Ken Holland look bad.

It was Cleary. It isn't debatable. At all.

Zetterberg's contract was the reason Nyquist was sent down!!!!!!!!!!

 

[InjuredChoker]

lol

You are the only person who believes it wasn't Cleary that caused Nyquist to be sent down.

The money wasn't the issue, it was the roster spot. You try so hard to defend something that is indefensible just because it would make Ken Holland look bad.

It was Cleary. It isn't debatable. At all.

it was the money too. they had no cap space. they could only callup nyquist later when they had guys on LTIR.

 

[f1seb]

 

[Pavels Dog]

lol

You are the only person who believes it wasn't Cleary that caused Nyquist to be sent down.

The money wasn't the issue, it was the roster spot. You try so hard to defend something that is indefensible just because it would make Ken Holland look bad.

It was Cleary. It isn't debatable. At all.

Zetterberg's contract was the reason Nyquist was sent down!!!!!!!!!!

Cleary and Nyquist are not competing for the same roster spot and they never have been.

It's like saying Joakim Andersson is the reason Mantha isn't going to start the year with the Wings. Or that Mike Green is the reason Nick Jensen will stay in the AHL.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Cleary and Nyquist are not competing for the same roster spot and they never have been.

It's like saying Joakim Andersson is the reason Mantha isn't going to start the year with the Wings. Or that Mike Green is the reason Nick Jensen will stay in the AHL.

Keep telling yourself that.

Nyquist had a roster spot locked up before Cleary was brought back.

Nyquist was sent back to GR after Cleary was brought back.

They were competing for the same roster spot. Nyquist lost because his birth certificate had the wrong date on it.

They weren't competing for the same position on the depth chart.

This is just hilarious. This didn't happen 25 years ago. Dan Cleary was the reason Nyquist lost his roster spot.

Ken Holland knew that if he signed Cleary, the team would have too many players on the roster. Holland didn't care though. Why? Because he knew he could just send Nyquist down without worrying about losing him to waivers.

But yeah, Cleary wasn't the reason Nyquist was sent down.

Holland favors garbage vets over prospects. This isn't breaking news. It's why this team is now a 1st round exit team. high floor, low ceiling.

 

[Henkka]

Cleary and Nyquist are not competing for the same roster spot and they never have been.

It's like saying Joakim Andersson is the reason Mantha isn't going to start the year with the Wings. Or that Mike Green is the reason Nick Jensen will stay in the AHL.

Agree with this. Blocking contract was Samuelsson. Scoring winger spot.

For you guys who disagree:

Read. My. Lips.

Scoring. Winger. Spot.

Go ask Ken Holland and you will get the same answer.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Agree with this. Blocking contract was Samuelsson. Scoring winger spot. Scoring winger spot.

Read. My. Lips.

Scoring. Winger. Spot.

So you are telling me a garbage vet was the reason Nyquist was sent down?

Not that i agree with what you said, in regards to which garbage vet caused Nyquist to be sent down.

Mikael Samuelsson a scoring winger. Now that's funny. As if Samuelsson would even remotely qualify as a scoring winger when the Wings signed him.

Two players no competent GM would have signed.

Let's make it real simple.

Is Nyquist on the opening night roster if Holland doesn't bring back Dan Cleary?

I wonder...

 

[jcbio11]

Hahaha you guys must be going nuts.

Red Wings HFboards whipping boy is back!

 

[Vladdy84]

Hahaha you guys must be going nuts.

Red Wings HFboards whipping boy is back!

He's not a whipping boy. He's terrible and doesn't belong in the NHL.

 

[PullHard]

There is nothing left to whip

 

[Winger98]

Agree with this. Blocking contract was Samuelsson. Scoring winger spot.

For you guys who disagree:

Read. My. Lips.

Scoring. Winger. Spot.

Go ask Ken Holland and you will get the same answer.

Cleary wasn't re-signed with the expectation of being a fourth liner/pressbox filler. I think all of Cleary/Sammy/Bertuzzi/ectc. were looked at as mid-6 scoring options that could be swapped around as Babcock saw fit. Except they were all either injured or crap when it came time to actually play hockey.

 

[Pavels Dog]

So you are telling me a garbage vet was the reason Nyquist was sent down?

Not that i agree with what you said, in regards to which garbage vet caused Nyquist to be sent down.

Mikael Samuelsson a scoring winger. Now that's funny. As if Samuelsson would even remotely qualify as a scoring winger when the Wings signed him.

Two players no competent GM would have signed.

Let's make it real simple.

Is Nyquist on the opening night roster if Holland doesn't bring back Dan Cleary?

I wonder...

Sammy had several solid 40-50 points (or on pace) seasons behind him when we signed him. Definitely a solid middle-6 option at the time even if it turned into a disaster signing.

Nyquist might have been on the roster if Holland didn't sign Cleary, but if Holland truly saw it as a Nyquist vs. Cleary situation he wouldn't have signed Danny. Holland wanted BOTH Cleary and Nyquist. Set aside your bias against Cleary specifically as well as your knowledge of how poor he played that year and just think about his (intended) role on the ice and in the lockerroom and maybe you understand what we're talking about. If Holland had been able to buy out Sammy, Nyquist would have been on the team.

Time to get over it btw. Things worked out pretty well and Nyquist wasn't hurt by it.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

"but if Holland truly saw it as a Nyquist vs. Cleary situation he wouldn't have signed Danny."

Right...I have no idea how you can actually believe that. It's laughable.

Sammy was two years removed from his last 50 point season, and was approaching an age where his inability to stay healthy should have raised a ton of red flags. A total joke signing by Ken Holland. The fact that he gave a 35+ Sammy a two year deal was even more ridiculous. Was there some kind of secret bidding war to sign a completely washed up player? Maybe Holland pinky promised Sammy a contract too.

With Helm already hurt, the wheels are in motion for the return of the worst player in the NHL to once again grace us with his useless presence.

And the best GM in hockey can continue to build the best 1st round exit team of all time. Praise him!!!!

 

[Pavels Dog]

"but if Holland truly saw it as a Nyquist vs. Cleary situation he wouldn't have signed Danny."

Right...I have no idea how you can actually believe that. It's laughable.

Sammy was two years removed from his last 50 point season, and was approaching an age where his inability to stay healthy should have raised a ton of red flags. A total joke signing by Ken Holland. The fact that he gave a 35+ Sammy a two year deal was even more ridiculous. Was there some kind of secret bidding war to sign a completely washed up player? Maybe Holland pinky promised Sammy a contract too.

With Helm already hurt, the wheels are in motion for the return of the worst player in the NHL to once again grace us with his useless presence.

And the best GM in hockey can continue to build the best 1st round exit team of all time. Praise him!!!!

Right, a veteran bottom 6 grinder with mostly PK and net-front use and leadership qualities was competing for a job with a young, top 9 scoring winger. Obviously. I bet you think Miller/Andersson/Glendening are the ones blocking AA/Larkin/Mantha from the Wings too?

Sammy produced at a 47-48 point pace the year before we signed him, and had 50 the season before that so it's a stretch to say "2 years removed". He hadn't missed much time to injury either except the season he was coming off of, no one could predict he'd miss basically a whole season and be impossible to buy out (it's possible Holland gave him 2 years with the knowledge he could use a compliance buyout as a failsafe).
Not a good signing at the time but not a terrible one except in hindsight when you have all the facts.

If you think that Cleary will play more than a handful (I find even that unlikely) of games this year, and if you think he has any bearing on our performance in the playoffs you are kidding yourself.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The reason people keep harping on the Cleary signing as being 'the reason' Nyquist was off the roster is that it appeals to a simplistic resolution. They already didn't like the Cleary signing, and if they can pile on further reasons to not like it, well, cool!

The Alfredsson signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) isn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start 2013... although if he wasn't there Nyquist certainly would have been.

The Weiss signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) wasn't as ripe a target for hindsight attacks at the time, so lets pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start.

The Tootoo signing (which took a roster spot) wasn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that contract didn't impact Nyquist's chance to be on the roster.

Let's also ignore Kindl getting a big raise to 2.4 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Lets also ignore Howard getting a bigger raise to 5.3 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Nah. What we're going to do is ignore all the moves that either worked decently or aren't as subject to whinging in hindsight and just focus on the moves that went poorly as the prime movers of prevention to the amazingly deleterious event of... Nyquist missing 20ish games in one NHL season.

The smartest and hottest of takes.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

The reason people keep harping on the Cleary signing as being 'the reason' Nyquist was off the roster is that it appeals to a simplistic resolution. They already didn't like the Cleary signing, and if they can pile on further reasons to not like it, well, cool!

The Alfredsson signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) isn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start 2013... although if he wasn't there Nyquist certainly would have been.

The Weiss signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) wasn't as ripe a target for hindsight attacks at the time, so lets pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start.

The Tootoo signing (which took a roster spot) wasn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that contract didn't impact Nyquist's chance to be on the roster.

Let's also ignore Kindl getting a big raise to 2.4 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Lets also ignore Howard getting a bigger raise to 5.3 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Nah. What we're going to do is ignore all the moves that either worked decently or aren't as subject to whinging in hindsight and just focus on the moves that went poorly as the prime movers of prevention to the amazingly deleterious event of... Nyquist missing 20ish games in one NHL season.

The smartest and hottest of takes.

You could also add into this most teams thought the cap would come out a little different and that greatly impacted the waiver wire. The last lockout brought about changes to the waiver wire, believe it put in the 30 day rule but maybe that existed before. Either way we see a ton less activity on the waiver wire.

I am sure they thought a guy like Eaves who had been claimed off waivers what was it three times? You might have thought he was not going to pass through in the event they waived him, I know I didn't think that. All of a sudden he did just that.

 

[InjuredChoker]

The reason people keep harping on the Cleary signing as being 'the reason' Nyquist was off the roster is that it appeals to a simplistic resolution. They already didn't like the Cleary signing, and if they can pile on further reasons to not like it, well, cool!

The Alfredsson signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) isn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start 2013... although if he wasn't there Nyquist certainly would have been.

The Weiss signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) wasn't as ripe a target for hindsight attacks at the time, so lets pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start.

The Tootoo signing (which took a roster spot) wasn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that contract didn't impact Nyquist's chance to be on the roster.

Let's also ignore Kindl getting a big raise to 2.4 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Lets also ignore Howard getting a bigger raise to 5.3 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Nah. What we're going to do is ignore all the moves that either worked decently or aren't as subject to whinging in hindsight and just focus on the moves that went poorly as the prime movers of prevention to the amazingly deleterious event of... Nyquist missing 20ish games in one NHL season.

The smartest and hottest of takes.

except about half of those moves could be subject to whinging in hindsight and went poorly. the reason people keep piling on cleary signing because they had the cap and roster space for nyquist before the signing, but not after and they knew it. that was not the case with those other signings. people didn't like the signing because it didn't make sense, he was a bad player that kept better player out of the NHL. otherwise it didn't matter, at least for me. i just laughed when i saw him signed this season. wasn't even mad at all.

tootoo was on IR to start the season btw, so he didn't take a roster spot away at the start of the season. and they waived him soon after when he was healthy.

also main reason. those signings had impact. not just as big as the last one that was the most unnecessary and made no sense from the beginning.

 

[HockeyinHD]

except about half of those moves could be subject to whinging in hindsight and went poorly. the reason people keep piling on cleary signing because they had the cap and roster space for nyquist before the signing, but not after and they knew it.

And that is precisely why I view those opinions as shallow as if someone said 'man, that last donut was the one that made me fat'.

A whole bunch of things contributed to the situation where Nyquist missed 20ish whole games. Pointing at the last one and going 'See? There's the reason!' is like blaming the last shooter for losing a 1 goal game. Maybe it was a bad shot, but man were there a bunch of other chances to win earlier.

Edit: And by the way, this sets aside the argument about whether Nyquist should have even had a roster spot set aside for him in the first place, which was a popular presumption regarding Nyquist but (much more accurately IMO) not as large of a concern with Pulkkinen. It's like people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, but after all their efforts they just end up having made a... slightly different shaped molehill.

 

[InjuredChoker]

And that is precisely why I view those opinions as shallow as if someone said 'man, that last donut was the one that made me fat'.

A whole bunch of things contributed to the situation where Nyquist missed 20ish whole games. Pointing at the last one and going 'See? There's the reason!' is like blaming the last shooter for losing a 1 goal game. Maybe it was a bad shot, but man were there a bunch of other chances to win earlier.

sure, if the game was tied and the shooter had empty net at opponents end but decided to shoot it at own net instead. other signings at least made some sense or were made a year earlier.

Edit: And by the way, this sets aside the argument about whether Nyquist should have even had a roster spot set aside for him in the first place, which was a popular presumption regarding Nyquist but (much more accurately IMO) not as large of a concern with Pulkkinen. It's like people are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill, but after all their efforts they just end up having made a... slightly different shaped molehill.

nyquist had proven more, team wasn't as deep and he had and has skills that usually translate better to the NHL.

 

[Roy S]

except about half of those moves could be subject to whinging in hindsight and went poorly. the reason people keep piling on cleary signing because they had the cap and roster space for nyquist before the signing, but not after and they knew it. that was not the case with those other signings. people didn't like the signing because it didn't make sense, he was a bad player that kept better player out of the NHL. otherwise it didn't matter, at least for me. i just laughed when i saw him signed this season. wasn't even mad at all.

tootoo was on IR to start the season btw, so he didn't take a roster spot away at the start of the season. and they waived him soon after when he was healthy.

also main reason. those signings had impact. not just as big as the last one that was the most unnecessary and made no sense from the beginning.

If I remember right, both Eaves and Tootoo started on IR and didn't go on LTIR. So, the cap space wasn't there for Nyquist. Once someone went on LTIR, then Nyquist was able to be up the rest of the year.

I think they anticipated players like Sammy and Eaves going on LTIR to make room for Nyquist and when that didn't happen then they had to wait until the first inevitable injury to occur to call him up.

 

[InjuredChoker]

If I remember right, both Eaves and Tootoo started on IR and didn't go on LTIR. So, the cap space wasn't there for Nyquist. Once someone went on LTIR, then Nyquist was able to be up the rest of the year.

I think they anticipated players like Sammy and Eaves going on LTIR to make room for Nyquist and when that didn't happen then they had to wait until the first inevitable injury to occur to call him up.

yes and that did happen in the end. i think the first injury was for dekeyser and then the injuries started piling up so keeping nyquist up wasn't an issue. i think helm started injured too.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

This is stupid to talk about but the signing of Cleary made it impossible roster and salary-wise to promote your 23 year-old #1 prospect who had been tearing up the AHL for years lol. I mean, who even cares how he was blocked. The fact Nyquist started that year in the AHL tells you all you need to know about Kenny Holland.

Holland is so bad at evaluating our young talent. Young roster players are so much more valuable than old vets. Look at the common theme of all the elite teams in this league: lots of young, cheap players making an impact; replacing vets who cost more and are just not as impacrful.

That's why I am excited but afraid of the coming years. We have so much young talent coming through the pipeline. I really hope Kenny utlilizes them properly but I really doubt it.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

This is stupid to talk about but the signing of Cleary made it impossible roster and salary-wise to promote your 23 year-old #1 prospect who had been tearing up the AHL for years lol. I mean, who even cares how he was blocked. The fact Nyquist started that year in the AHL tells you all you need to know about Kenny Holland.

Holland is so bad at evaluating our young talent. Young roster players are so much more valuable than old vets. Look at the common theme of all the elite teams in this league: lots of young, cheap players making an impact; replacing vets who cost more and are just not as impacrful.

That's why I am excited but afraid of the coming years. We have so much young talent coming through the pipeline. I really hope Kenny utlilizes them properly but I really doubt it.

I'm honestly thinking Larkin needs to get 15/20 games up here at minimum this year.

 

[jkutswings]

The reason people keep harping on the Cleary signing as being 'the reason' Nyquist was off the roster is that it appeals to a simplistic resolution. They already didn't like the Cleary signing, and if they can pile on further reasons to not like it, well, cool!

The Alfredsson signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) isn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start 2013... although if he wasn't there Nyquist certainly would have been.

The Weiss signing (which took a top 6/9 spot away from Nyquist) wasn't as ripe a target for hindsight attacks at the time, so lets pretend that didn't impact whether or not Nyquist was up to start.

The Tootoo signing (which took a roster spot) wasn't as ripe for criticism, so let's pretend that contract didn't impact Nyquist's chance to be on the roster.

Let's also ignore Kindl getting a big raise to 2.4 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Lets also ignore Howard getting a bigger raise to 5.3 as something that dried up cap space as we complain about Cleary drying up cap space.

Nah. What we're going to do is ignore all the moves that either worked decently or aren't as subject to whining in hindsight and just focus on the moves that went poorly as the prime movers of prevention to the amazingly deleterious event of... Nyquist missing 20ish games in one NHL season.

The smartest and hottest of takes.

The Detroit Red Wings are no closer to winning a Cup than they were 3 or 4 years ago, and their only elite talent is both injured to start the season and approaching retirement. I'd say they have some room for criticism.

And yes, all the moves you referenced have been bad moves. Cleary is just the most pointless of the bad moves, so it's the easiest to heckle.

 

[Frk It]

If I remember right, both Eaves and Tootoo started on IR and didn't go on LTIR. So, the cap space wasn't there for Nyquist. Once someone went on LTIR, then Nyquist was able to be up the rest of the year.

I think they anticipated players like Sammy and Eaves going on LTIR to make room for Nyquist and when that didn't happen then they had to wait until the first inevitable injury to occur to call him up.

But they signed Cleary in September. So at that point, they KNEW there was not room. They KNEW Sammy was healthy and wasn't going to go on LTIR, nor did he want to.

They knew they were already over the cap, and had no roster spots. And they just did it anyways, as the clincher. So no, it wasn't the only reason Nyquist went to GR, but it was the one that clinched it, and was idiotic, and was totally avoidable when using good judgement.