Wilson vs Carlyle

[Mowerman]

You people are hilarious. at what point did I say I preferred wilson over Carlyle.I simply pointed out that each coach's system didn't work with the personnel they have or had to work with.Carlyle can not win with the system he is currently employing and the personnel he has

Carlyle's team took Boston to game 7 last year and he currently has the team in playoff position despite key injuries.

You can criticize the guy and point out the disconnect between system and personnel all you'd like. But to say that the team as it is being run right now can't win is just demonstrably false. The team has been winning.

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

oops

 

[Finnish your Czech]

Wilson would do pretty well with the roster we have now, probably even better than Carlyle.

I just hate Carlyle's system.

 

[Purity*]

Wilson would do pretty well with the roster we have now, probably even better than Carlyle.

I just hate Carlyle's system.

It would take a hell of a good coach to make a playoff team out of the roster that Wilson had. Would Wilson do better than Carlyle if he had today's roster? We will probably never know, is it wrong to think so? Absolutely not, Carlyle's system relies on having a strong D-core which we DEFINITELY do not have. Wilson's system takes some speedy skilled forwards to make successful, which we happen to have quite a few of. This is in no way a defense to Wilson, because there's probably a reason he hasn't found a job coaching yet, but let's not throw logic out the window here. I think Carlyle would be an excellent coach for teams like Nashville, NYR, NJD, LA, etc... I have no doubt in my mind Carlyle can coach a strong defensive team and find success.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Wilson had a legit #1 pairing in Phaneuf and Beauchemin plus a top 5 draft pick shut down d-man in Schenn and made them look like a bunch of pylons. I would not want the guy back.

 

[Ari91]

It would take a hell of a good coach to make a playoff team out of the roster that Wilson had. Would Wilson do better than Carlyle if he had today's roster? We will probably never know, is it wrong to think so? Absolutely not, Carlyle's system relies on having a strong D-core which we DEFINITELY do not have. Wilson's system takes some speedy skilled forwards to make successful, which we happen to have quite a few of. This is in no way a defense to Wilson, because there's probably a reason he hasn't found a job coaching yet, but let's not throw logic out the window here.

So how did that 2011-2012 team manage to be a playoff team for 3/4 of the season before free falling?

At the time, I think Wilson was made the easy scapegoat and the players weren't being held accountable enough for their poor player. New coach and it seems to be the same issue. Individual play and stupid decisions on the ice are being overlooked in favour of criticizing the coach. What is Carlyle's system? It's not collapsing in your own end to defend a lead. Carlyle said he doesn't like that the team does that so that's clearly not part of his strategy. It's not getting routinely outworked and outshot and giving up a ton of time in their own end because he doesn't like that either. He doesn't require his team to use a cycle game to score but he'd like his team to cycle more for the simple fact that it's time in the offensive zone and it's time that the opposition doesn't have with the puck.

I'm not sure what the hell his system is...but I don't think anyone else really does either.

 

[rdawg1234]

Wilson has never won a cup

Wilson told players it was wrong to have one hand on the stick(ridiculous)

Wilson was 100% offense, and then im assuming he told them to just guess what to do when in the defensive zone.

Run and gun has rarely if ever won championships, especially in this modern era
it's defense+amazing goaltending that wins it now(see LA, Boston, Detroit, Chicago)

Pitty is the only exception i can think of in the past few years, but they have the 1st and 2nd best centres in the league.

Stick with Carlyle, give him the d-men he needs, then toss him if it doesnt work. His system can win championships. Wilson's never could.

 

[Philkessel]

you should die a terrible death for even saying this if burke fired wilson 2 years before he did we would be 2 years better off period Wilson was the worse coach in the history of the leafs

 

[Penalty Kill Icing*]

Wilson had a legit #1 pairing in Phaneuf and Beauchemin plus a top 5 draft pick shut down d-man in Schenn and made them look like a bunch of pylons. I would not want the guy back.

Who were the goalies? And how is our defense playing better right now than under Wilson?

 

[Antropovsky]

I feel like were comparinf extreme Right wings to extreme left wings.

you have the crazy offensive guy... Ron Wilson who encouraged 2 hands on stick

Ron Wilson didn't believe in fighting

Ron Wilson didn't believe in weight lifting, just cardio, he even created a program to monitor his players offseason cardio training.

Ron Wilson would switch out his starting goalie in the shootout, installing his cold backup (cujo).

Ron Wilson destroyed steen

Then extreme left wings:

I feel that caryle is a great coach, but needs to relax his control a bit. He needs to find a way to relax his players. Their is a fine line between letting players free wheel to much, and being over controlling where the players are afraid to do anything... I feel caryle has his team afraid.

No more team team stretching, lighten up on the intense practicing and relax the reigns a bit for mistakes.

Find the sweet spot, between being too controlling and being too wide open.

Caryle is the better coach, I just think his players don't like to play for him very much.

 

[LeafalCrusader]

Who were the goalies? And how is our defense playing better right now than under Wilson?

JS Giguere who has a .947 save percentage and 1.67 gaa
Jonas Gusstavson who has a .930 save percentage and a 2.00 gaa

And the players on his defense were better than the ones we had now its just with Wilson's stupid run and gun system everybody was made to look like pylons.

Part of me hopes Carlyle is fired just so I can laugh at the fans still wondering why our injury depleted forward lineup and crappy defense is still playing crappy.

 

[Duffman955]

Both were coaches capable of running a strong defensive system that would rarely allow high number of shots or give up leads.

After coming here, both coaches had trouble maintaining leads or playing a structured defensive hockey.

Its the leafs curse I tell ya

 

[Pyrophorus]

So how did that 2011-2012 team manage to be a playoff team for 3/4 of the season before free falling?

At the time, I think Wilson was made the easy scapegoat and the players weren't being held accountable enough for their poor play

It was just his time. He had lost the room at that point.

Burke did what he said he would do, change everything before the coach.

 

[thewave]

It was just his time. He had lost the room at that point.

Burke did what he said he would do, change everything before the coach.

Changing everything before the coach is the fastest way to destroy a franchise

 

[legendinblue]

So it has come to this.

 

[thewave]

So it has come to this.

Wins that make you feel less confident in your team, yep we are back to here again.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Changing everything before the coach is the fastest way to destroy a franchise

Yet we did something, that we could not do with his predecessor.

Carlyle 10 times out of 10, twice on Sundays.
Let me know when Ronnie gets his next gig...how long has it been now?

 

[thewave]

Yet we did something, that we could not do with his predecessor.

Carlyle 10 times out of 10, twice on Sundays.
Let me know when Ronnie gets his next gig...how long has it been now?

Not arguing the record, we are where a rotten Ronnie team would be, we save our tank for the end short term historically. We waited to long for Ronnie to be fired if Carlyles got us out of a playoff spot in January there is no reason to keep him around. We don't have to hang on to the old man.

 

[leafsfuture]

Im starting to look more favourably at Wilson, but what would our center dept look like right now.

Kadri would still be in the minors if he was here, and if Kadri was up, it would probably be on the wing

 

[crump]

More odd man rushes against with Wilson. You still get them with Carlyle but it's usually from an odd bad pinch that happened every other shift with Wilson's team.

Defensemen are less aggressive. If the puck is half way between (or sometimes closer) them and an opposing player, they back off giving them the puck but retaining good body positioning. You go after that puck and 8/10 you force a turnover or gain possession, but the 2/10 you go after it, the opposing player chips it by you causing an odd man situation.

Hate the extended zone times that come from this. They become exponentially bad as the shift wears on.