Willie Desjardins (Part 2) - So far, So good.

[WetcoastOrca]

Now if they move to a 2nd unit PP that relies heavily on the blueline to shoot, he could be a great net front presence/low corner distributor... but we don't have the point shots to threaten to play that style...

I think that's what they need to do on the second PP. Simplify it. Park Kassian in front of the net to create havoc and get Tanev and Bieksa on the point to put pucks on the net. Bonino is the playmaker as he's best suited for that. Higgins as the guy to dig the puck out of the corners and also shoot.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

So you're saying you're satisfied that Kassian is playing 11:50/game and satisfied with the player decisions on our 2nd unit?

I think Kassian should be on the 2nd PP unit - and suspect he will be at some point in the near future. Don't think it's going to make or break that group though.

I would expect Kassian's minutes to increase over the course of the season. If he's playing well and seeing under 12 minutes a night indefinitely, it will be a problem.

 

[absolute garbage]

Right, I take the silence as you can't argue in favor of the current 2nd unit personnel.

I think the coaches are using the second PP as a carrot for Kassian to get him to improve his overall game. As a former minor league coach myself, I sometimes used that approach too.
I'd be surprised if we don't see him on the PP soon but he needs to earn it by playing consistently every night.

And as for this... does it even need to be said that minor league (guessing some beer league?) and NHL work a little differently. No NHL coach thinks "well I'm gonna put a bad powerplay unit out there that's not going to score so that the better PP players watching on the bench have something to keep working for".

It's nothing but stubbornness and bad decision making by the coaching staff at this point.

When I think of important young players in Vancouver, Eddie lack doesn't really even register.

In the current situation, agreed. Another wasted asset.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Right, I take the silence as you can't argue in favor of the current 2nd unit personnel.



And as for this... does it even need to be said that minor league (guessing some beer league?) and NHL work a little differently. No NHL coach thinks "well I'm gonna put a bad powerplay unit out there that's not going to score so that the better PP players watching on the bench have something to keep working for".

It's nothing but stubbornness and bad decision making by the coaching staff at this point.



In the current situation, agreed. Another wasted asset.

Agree to disgree. Once Kassian brings a consistent game the he'll get PP time.
AT this point Willie probably doesn't see him as a significant upgrade over the other options.

 

[absolute garbage]

Agree to disgree. Once Kassian brings a consistent game the he'll get PP time.

So you think Willie is thinking the bolded part? That means you're basically saying Willie is intentionally trying to lose? I don't think so.

And disagree with the consistency that people love to throw around here. Kassian has been consistently a threat in the offensive zone for a few weeks now as he was 2nd half of last season.

That should be enough already to be on the 2nd unit PP (not first, second). I don't see Vrbata losing minutes or 1st unit PP spot despite slumping pretty hard recently. And again, what is the current 2nd unit and it's results? Not only is there better options to use, it even can't get worse!

AT this point Willie probably doesn't see him as a significant upgrade over the other options.

Probably yeah. And that's just dumb.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

So you think Willie is thinking the bolded part? That means you're basically saying Willie is intentionally trying to lose? I don't think so.

And disagree with the consistency that people love to throw around here. Kassian has been consistently a threat in the offensive zone for a few weeks now as he was 2nd half of last season.

That should be enough already to be on the 2nd unit PP. And again, what is the current unit and it's results? Not only is there better options to use, it even can't get worse!



Probably yeah. And that's just dumb.

No, I don't think Willie is trying to lose. I don't think he sees that Kassian would be an upgrade to the second unit right now.

On consistency, Kassian did play consistently the last quarter of last season. So far this season he's been good one game then coasted the next. I've been encouraged the last few games as he seems to be increasing his consistency.
The staff should tell him to look at Higgins play to see how he needs to play every night. He'd be a good role model.
Kassian is one of my favourite Canucks and I think he has tons of potential but he really needs to get involved every game. It's a tough thing for a young guy who needs to play a physical game to learn.

 

[Scurr]

I'd like to see Kassian on the PP... but three NHL coaches in a row disagree. Might be something to that.

 

[MS]

I think Kassian should be on the 2nd PP unit - and suspect he will be at some point in the near future. Don't think it's going to make or break that group though.

I would expect Kassian's minutes to increase over the course of the season. If he's playing well and seeing under 12 minutes a night indefinitely, it will be a problem.

So we agree.

And if it's a problem later in the year that Kassian isn't getting that time, it's a problem now and there's no reason it can't be resolved.

Agree to disgree. Once Kassian brings a consistent game the he'll get PP time.
AT this point Willie probably doesn't see him as a significant upgrade over the other options.

... and that's just bad coaching and a poor evaluation of the talent at his disposal.

If you can't watch the games and see that Kassian is a guy with better PP skills than Hansen or Dorsett (or Burrows or Higgins), I really don't know what to say. And it's hurting the team. And isn't good for the development of one of our most important young players.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

So we agree.

And if it's a problem later in the year that Kassian isn't getting that time, it's a problem now and there's no reason it can't be resolved.



... and that's just bad coaching and a poor evaluation of the talent at his disposal.

If you can't watch the games and see that Kassian is a guy with better PP skills than Hansen or Dorsett (or Burrows or Higgins), I really don't know what to say. And it's hurting the team. And isn't good for the development of one of our most important young players.

Debatable. It never hurt the development of a lot of young players to earn their ice time, including the Sedins and Kesler.
Long term this will help his development. I have no doubt that by the second half of the season when he's learned to play hard every single night he will get more minutes. He's taken too many nights and shifts off so far this season after improving over the last part of the past season. He needs to get back to that type of play every night. He's young and he'll learn.

And while I love Kassian and his potential, he really hasn't proven that he has better PP skills than any of those players.

 

[absolute garbage]

On consistency, Kassian did play consistently the last quarter of last season. So far this season he's been good one game then coasted the next. I've been encouraged the last few games as he seems to be increasing his consistency.
The staff should tell him to look at Higgins play to see how he needs to play every night. He'd be a good role model.
Kassian is one of my favourite Canucks and I think he has tons of potential but he really needs to get involved every game. It's a tough thing for a young guy who needs to play a physical game to learn.

Disagreed. You talk in cliches that haven't been accurate for a while now. Yes he had a slow start and yes he can make a dumb play in defensive/neutral zone at times but for the last couple weeks, he's been a force and a catalyst in the offensive zone making plays and creating chances. Continued from where he left off last season, to me that's enough of this precious consistency that everyone is after. That line has been our best line for a while now and he's been the guy creating most of their offence.

And once again, I don't care how many NHL coaches are making the decision to go with it but when a PP unit that ices bad PP players has 1 (fluky) goal in 13 games, and refuse to change anything about it, I'm gonna go ahead and say they are wrong. Like, even if they don't see better options for some ridiculous reasons, it's only common sense you switch things up after these kind of results.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Disagreed. You talk in cliches that haven't been accurate for a while now. Yes he had a slow start and yes he can make a dumb play in defensive/neutral zone at times but for the last couple weeks, he's been a force and a catalyst in the offensive zone making plays and creating chances. Continued from where he left off last season, to me that's enough of this precious consistency that everyone is after. That line has been our best line for a while now and he's been the guy creating most of their offence.

And once again, I don't care how many NHL coaches are making the decision to go with it but when a PP unit that ices bad PP players has 1 (fluky) goal in 13 games, and refuse to change anything about it, I'm gonna go ahead and say they are wrong. Like, even if they don't see better options for some ridiculous reasons, it's only common sense you switch things up after these kind of results.

Our best line????
Have you even been watching the games?
That's not even close to being accurate.*


*All cliches have been eliminated.

 

[Ryp37]

He's never been given a chance to

 

[Smokey McCanucks]

Is anyone else consistently amused by how twitchy and animated Desjardins is behind the bench? He looks like he's just barely keeping it together back there at any given time, perfect for Vancouver hockey market.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

He's never been given a chance to

I think he'll get a chance when he proves to the coaching staff that he's going to play hard every single night.
Contrary to popular opinion, I don't think the coaches are purposely tanking the second PP unit.

 

[absolute garbage]

And while I love Kassian and his potential, he really hasn't proven that he has better PP skills than any of those players.

Kassian's skillset is made for offensive zone time and puck possession, something PP is very much about. And when the comparisons here are grinders like Higgins, Burrows or Hansen, who you can use on the PP but only one at a time AND only as a mask man/puck retrieval guy, and you can't see the difference between these players' possible PP success based on their skillsets, I think I'm done here.

Our best line????
Have you even been watching the games?
That's not even close to being accurate.*

Yup. They've been going good recently, Sedins not so much.

And by the way that's not a very good thing to grab on to from my post when the point of this argument is PP personnel. "Welp I got nothing, better change the subject".

 

[MS]

Debatable. It never hurt the development of a lot of young players to earn their ice time, including the Sedins and Kesler.
Long term this will help his development. I have no doubt that by the second half of the season when he's learned to play hard every single night he will get more minutes. He's taken too many nights and shifts off so far this season after improving over the last part of the past season. He needs to get back to that type of play every night. He's young and he'll learn.

And while I love Kassian and his potential, he really hasn't proven that he has better PP skills than any of those players.

This 'Kassian isn't consistent' stuff is getting really overblown.

He was consistently good last year from January onward, then got hurt early in preseason this year and struggled for the first 5 games of the season after returning, then has been very good again for 6-8 games.

Every player has non-factor games and stretches. Vrbata has been very poor for the last 5 games. Higgins is as consistent as it gets, and has still had 3 or 4 games this year where you couldn't find him with a program, and one or two where his effort was outright poor. And so on.

Plus, as was noted already, even if you don't think Kassian as an upgrade (which would be ridiculous but whatever), that unit has been garbage so far this season. Scored a goal 4 seconds into our first PP of the year, haven't scored since in 13 games now and can barely even get set up in the offensive zone or string three passes together. At some point you try different things to get it to work.

Our best line????
Have you even been watching the games?
I really question your other comments after that whopper.

Prior to last night's game, the Richardson line had been our best line for the previous 4-5 games.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

This 'Kassian isn't consistent' stuff is getting really overblown.

He was consistently good last year from January onward, then got hurt early in preseason this year and struggled for the first 5 games of the season after returning, then has been very good again for 6-8 games.

Every player has non-factor games and stretches. Vrbata has been very poor for the last 5 games. Higgins is as consistent as it gets, and has still had 3 or 4 games this year where you couldn't find him with a program, and one or two where his effort was outright poor. And so on.

Plus, as was noted already, even if you don't think Kassian as an upgrade (which would be ridiculous but whatever), that unit has been garbage so far this season. Scored a goal 4 seconds into our first PP of the year, haven't scored since in 13 games now and can barely even get set up in the offensive zone or string three passes together. At some point you try different things to get it to work.



Prior to last night's game, the Richardson line had been our best line for the previous 4-5 games.

I disagree.
I understand why people like Kassian so much. The skill set is so enticing.
But I think it blinds a lot of people to his faults. And I see a young guy who just doesn't play an effective game and isn't engaged on far too many nights. He'll make a great pass and then just blindly throw it away in his own zone.
I'm seeing the same thing AV, Torts and Willie have seen as well.
We aren't the Oilers, and he's not going to get handed anything just because he was a high draft pick.


I should probably move on because I know it's not a popular opinion and is diverting this thread.

 

[MS]

I disagree.
I understand why people like Kassian so much. The skill set is so enticing.
But I think it blinds a lot of people to his faults. And I see a young guy who just doesn't play an effective game and isn't engaged on far too many nights. He'll make a great pass and then just blindly throw it away in his own zone.
I'm seeing the same thing AV, Torts and Willie have seen as well.
We aren't the Oilers, and he's not going to get handed anything just because he was a high draft pick.


I should probably move on because I know it's not a popular opinion and is diverting this thread.

He still makes some mistakes but is working hard to improve and showing improvement in both his consistency and his overall play. He's a completely different player from what we saw a year ago, and a year before that. He isn't going to turn into a finished product overnight.

Nobody is saying he should be on the first line or playing 18 minutes/game. But his icetime shouldn't be dropping when he's doing the things he's asked to and improving as a player. Doubly so when his skillset is sorely needed on the PP - it isn't like that unit is firing on all cylinders and it's hard to find a place for him.

11:50/game for him right now is ridiculous. It's barely more than he was playing on a President's Trophy team as a 20 y/o in 2012.

 

[Drop the Sopel]

In the current situation, agreed. Another wasted asset.

Another wasted asset?

What the hell have you been watching?

 

[Orca Smash]

I would like to see kassian get a chance on the 2nd unit, but I am also not convinced he is going to turn that unit around over burrows/higgins, I would give him a chance, but I am not sold hes a key missing piece of the puzzle either. I have found hf often is convinced what we think is always best until we see it in action. God knows i have been guilty of it in the past when av was here as well and reflecting back I understand many of his decisions now.

Its very realistic possibility trotting kassian out over burrows makes little difference. Still I would give him a chance at some point.

 

[Ryp37]

I would like to see kassian get a chance on the 2nd unit, but I am also not convinced he is going to turn that unit around over burrows/higgins, I would give him a chance, but I am not sold hes a key missing piece of the puzzle either. I have found hf often is convinced what we think is always best until we see it in action. God knows i have been guilty of it in the past when av was here as well and reflecting back I understand many of his decisions now.

Its very realistic possibility trotting kassian out over burrows makes little difference. Still I would give him a chance at some point.

No ones saying hell fix it but when something isn't working you don't keep trying it over and over, like last years disgrace of a pp

 

[Orca Smash]

No ones saying hell fix it but when something isn't working you don't keep trying it over and over, like last years disgrace of a pp

No some are talking like he will be a considerable upgrade.

This is simply different philosophy between posters i touched on earlier, if you go to the avs board they want consistency, they dont want the lines juggled at the first sign of trouble they want consistent lines even if it struggles, i also believe if something is not working you dont break it up right away, you need to give it a chance to build chemistry, we just started the season and some want to break up the first unit even already and its been the best it has been in some time. Some even want vrbata off the top line already which i find crazy.

I dont believe constantly juggling lines help matters, i am more patient and believe even if lines are struggling you dont start mixing and matching, you give them plenty of time to try to improve and build chemistry. It varies from person to person coach to coach. Coach q juggles his lines constantly during the game and some hawks fans hate it, pens fans however hated byslma kept his lines together all the time.

With that said and like I said earlier the 2nd unit is nearing the point here after this road trip where I would try kassian shortly and shake that unit up, but I also dont know if he improves the 2nd unit either, we will have to find out. Mid november I think is enough time to begin evaluating that 2nd unit and making changes. Some felt the 4th game of the season was enough evaluation to switch things up. Simply different opinions on this.

 

[Ryp37]

No some are talking like he will be a considerable upgrade.

This is simply different philosophy between posters i touched on earlier, if you go to the avs board they want consistency, they dont want the lines juggled at the first sign of trouble they want consistent lines even if it struggles, i also believe if something is not working you dont break it up right away, you need to give it a chance to build chemistry, we just started the season and some want to break up the first unit even already and its been the best it has been in some time. Some even want vrbata off the top line already which i find crazy.

I dont believe constantly juggling lines help matters, i am more patient and believe even if lines are struggling you dont start mixing and matching, you give them plenty of time to try to improve and build chemistry. It varies from person to person coach to coach. Coach q juggles his lines constantly during the game and some hawks fans hate it, pens fans however hated byslma kept his lines together all the time.

With that said and like I said earlier the 2nd unit is nearing the point here after this road trip where I would try kassian shortly and shake that unit up, but I also dont know if he improves the 2nd unit either.

Not a fan of juggling 5 on 5 lines, but this is the second unit pp were talling about and everyone and their mom knows kassian is a better option than Hansen, it's not hard to be an upgrade on that

 

[Orca Smash]

Not a fan of juggling 5 on 5 lines, but this is the second unit pp were talling about and everyone and their mom knows kassian is a better option than Hansen, it's not hard to be an upgrade on that

Im talking about the 2nd unit as well, just like 5 on 5 it deserves a chance to build something, imo now its nearing the point of needing a shake up as we near the 15 game mark, but thats my opinion, some felt it should have been shaken up far ealirer, the burrows suspension is the reason why hansen was out and like i said I would try kassian instead.

And some people are also talking the first unit needs changes to. The top unit you cant be as patient with, but with the top unit producing I feel you can afford the 2nd unit some extra time to try to build some chemistry before an overhaul.

 

[Lonny Bohonos]

Not sure if its been noted already, but could the this be a sign that a cup is in the cards?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canuck,_Saskatchewan