Disappearing Semin
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- Oct 18, 2012
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Will our defenceman be ready for our cup window?
- Thread starter Disappearing Semin
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LaP
Registered User
That's my problem with not playing Tinordi/Beaulieu and not having Galchenyuk as a centre this season. They are missing good exp in a year where we are not a cup contender.
The peak (combination of speed, strength, exp) of most players is between 26 and 30 or something like that. Not saying guys can't be good past or before that but usually after 30 a guy starts to slow down (some faster than others like Gomez) and before 26 a guy lack exp. Of course a Jagr slowing down is not as evident as a Gionta slowing down
and a inexperienced Crosby is not as evident as let's say Eller
At the very beginning of next season :
Eller will be 26
Subban will be 26
Pacman will be 26
Price will be 28
Sekac 23
Gallagher 23
The window is starting next season and we have around 5, 6 or 7 years at the very most before guys like Subban and Pacman get past their prime.
Tinordi and Beaulieu are both 22. Yes they still have a lot to learn and might never become good d men in the NHL. But we have to find out this year and next year not in 3 years where we wil be in the middle of the window. At least one of the 2 must get NHL exp. There's no point playing a guy like Allen.
When Pacman and Subban will be 28 guys like Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk should ideally have 2 years of xp at their position in the NHL.
Also saying Beaulieu and Tinordi must stay in the AHL to play is not as right as some think it is. In the AHL right now we have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn, Dietz, Nygren, Bennett, Ellis and vets like Drewiske and Finley. All those guys can't have good ice time. Having Beaulieu and or Tinordi in Montréal gives more ice time to guys like Dietz and Bennett.
The peak (combination of speed, strength, exp) of most players is between 26 and 30 or something like that. Not saying guys can't be good past or before that but usually after 30 a guy starts to slow down (some faster than others like Gomez) and before 26 a guy lack exp. Of course a Jagr slowing down is not as evident as a Gionta slowing down
and a inexperienced Crosby is not as evident as let's say Eller At the very beginning of next season :
Eller will be 26
Subban will be 26
Pacman will be 26
Price will be 28
Sekac 23
Gallagher 23
The window is starting next season and we have around 5, 6 or 7 years at the very most before guys like Subban and Pacman get past their prime.
Tinordi and Beaulieu are both 22. Yes they still have a lot to learn and might never become good d men in the NHL. But we have to find out this year and next year not in 3 years where we wil be in the middle of the window. At least one of the 2 must get NHL exp. There's no point playing a guy like Allen.
When Pacman and Subban will be 28 guys like Tinordi, Beaulieu and Galchenyuk should ideally have 2 years of xp at their position in the NHL.
Also saying Beaulieu and Tinordi must stay in the AHL to play is not as right as some think it is. In the AHL right now we have Tinordi, Beaulieu, Pateryn, Dietz, Nygren, Bennett, Ellis and vets like Drewiske and Finley. All those guys can't have good ice time. Having Beaulieu and or Tinordi in Montréal gives more ice time to guys like Dietz and Bennett.
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
Somewhat ready. Maybe one in the bottom pairing and the other in Hamilton. We need to trade or sign a top 4 defenseman. There is no way around that fact.
They're a year behind in their development. Instead of learning from their rookie mistakes this year, they'll be doing that next year. It's a shame. I was hoping Bergevin stuck to his word when he said the youth would get a chance. Instead, we have the oldest defense group.
At least one of Tinordi/Beaulieu (I'll say Tinner) would have been ready to play top-4 minutes in two years if they had played this year.
At least one of Tinordi/Beaulieu (I'll say Tinner) would have been ready to play top-4 minutes in two years if they had played this year.
ottawa
Avatar of the Year*
Who needs defense when you have Carey Price...in other words, no. We live and die with Price unless Tinordi/Bealieu develop properly.
Interesting question. Defense is definitely the weaker part of this young core right now.
If we look ahead a couple of seasons to who our NHL ready defensemen are - Markov and Gonchar retired, Allen/Weaver/Gilbert gone - we have Subban, Emelin, Beaulieu and Tinordi. Plus at least two external acquisitions, i.e. UFA or trade which are probably equivalent to Gilbert/Weaver. That's not especially impressive.
The biggest challenge might be getting a number two i.e. Markov who can log quality minutes. Beaulieu probably doesn't project to that type of player and neither does Tinordi.
Pointless I know, but if we had McDonagh right now...
If we look ahead a couple of seasons to who our NHL ready defensemen are - Markov and Gonchar retired, Allen/Weaver/Gilbert gone - we have Subban, Emelin, Beaulieu and Tinordi. Plus at least two external acquisitions, i.e. UFA or trade which are probably equivalent to Gilbert/Weaver. That's not especially impressive.
The biggest challenge might be getting a number two i.e. Markov who can log quality minutes. Beaulieu probably doesn't project to that type of player and neither does Tinordi.
Pointless I know, but if we had McDonagh right now...
Disappearing Semin
Registered User
- Oct 18, 2012
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We are lucky that our prospect pool is abundant right now but a top pairing defenseman around 30 years old would do wonder to this team in terms of having a mature, movile defensive group that would complement our group. In the next two years all these defencemans will become UFA and should interest Marc Bergevin:
- Andrej Sekera
- Marc Methot
- Johnny Boychuk
- Zbynek Michalek
- Cody Franson
- Keith Yandle
- Brent Seabrook
- Mark Giordano
- Jason Demers
Obviously not all these players will become available , but hopefully we can sign one or two
The Boston Bruins are showing this season that young DMen take more time to develop than forwards do.
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
- 37,533
- 10,804
Without a doubt they'll both be ready, but I'd still like to make a shrewd move in FA to pick up a top 4 d-man. Someone like Stralman.
DenverHabsFan
Registered User
Habs 4 Life
No Excuses
We are going to need a # 2 or 3 defenseman. Even when Tinordi and Beaulieu are going to be full time NHL'ers, we are going to need that missing piece. Same way the Bruins went out and got Seidenberg. I'd love to see Bergevin go after Yandle, but it most cost us a lot
That's a pretty terrible strategy.
How about having a good defense to go along with our great goalie? Price can't do everything.
With Hudon, Reway, Andrighetto, Scherbak, Galchenyuk, Audette, Thomas, Lehkonen, McCarron, Gallagher all vying for top 9 spots, + Tokarski and Fucale, Hopefully we'll have enough trade bait to land a premier defender.
NobleSix
High Tech Low-Life.
Personally, I hate all this "they need to get NHL experience" talk. If that were true, then you might as well take a Peewee player and put them in the NHL so they can get NHL experience. I mean, if all it takes to be an NHL player is to play in the NHL then why bother having a farm team?
You get NHL experience when you are ready for it. Not before. You give it to people before they are ready and you just ruin them. If they aren't ready for the leap, then they aren't ready for the leap. Doesn't matter how old they are, doesn't matter what we think, doesn't matter what other players, teams or organizations are doing. What matters is what this organization thinks. We don't know what goes on in the dressing room, we don't know what goes on during the road trips, we don't know what goes on during the practices or in the one-on-one discussions with the players themselves. By most accounts Beaulieu and Tinordi aren't even dominating at the AHL level ("Lefevbre, blah, blah, blah!"). So maybe they just aren't ready to be full-time NHL players.
Bergevin has done a pretty good job of building up the organization's support system for young players, how about we let them do their jobs?
You get NHL experience when you are ready for it. Not before. You give it to people before they are ready and you just ruin them. If they aren't ready for the leap, then they aren't ready for the leap. Doesn't matter how old they are, doesn't matter what we think, doesn't matter what other players, teams or organizations are doing. What matters is what this organization thinks. We don't know what goes on in the dressing room, we don't know what goes on during the road trips, we don't know what goes on during the practices or in the one-on-one discussions with the players themselves. By most accounts Beaulieu and Tinordi aren't even dominating at the AHL level ("Lefevbre, blah, blah, blah!"). So maybe they just aren't ready to be full-time NHL players.
Bergevin has done a pretty good job of building up the organization's support system for young players, how about we let them do their jobs?
stop using reason they don't like it here
booloo looked good last game but hasn't been great most of the season and tinordi i thought was the more ready of the two, but i guess the organization feels different because boiloo gets the call ups
To me it's the other way around.
We need D to have a cup window to begin with. An entire team needs to be in a "prime" of sorts. It doesn't matter if Price is in his prime, the team needs to support him.
We need D to have a cup window to begin with. An entire team needs to be in a "prime" of sorts. It doesn't matter if Price is in his prime, the team needs to support him.
Jeffrey
Registered User
I would go all in on Erik Johnson and Keith Yandle...
Both would fill huge need and could be attainable...
Both would fill huge need and could be attainable...
DAChampion
Registered User
- May 28, 2011
- 29,804
- 20,960
We were in the conference finals last year were they ready then?
Would we have beaten nrw york if Tinordi and Beaulieu had been prepared?
Would we have beaten nrw york if Tinordi and Beaulieu had been prepared?
LaP
Registered User
Beaulieu definitely was. He was definitely better than Murray and Bouillon and it's the reason he finished the serie against Boston.
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