Will Leafs Loading Up Lead to Anything...?

[Morning Dart]

Im really hoping thats something we do this year. I wasn't impressed trading backwards right out of the 1st round. Yeah I get the whole "stocking up on picks" but there were some good players we passed on in the 1st.

Trading up is fool's gold and largely a waste of assets. If you draft smart and capitalize on the hubris of 2/3rds of the GM's in the League, you can stay where you are or even trade back and end up with a similar or superior prospect.

 

[tolwyn]

How do you tell them???

Welll DUHHH!!!!!!!! 99

You tell them you are a RFA and no one demands 10/12m a year.

The point is these players' agents will use that number in negotiations. If those players are playing almost as good/as good as him, they are going to demand more money. Sure they probably aren't going to ask $10mil/8yrs, but it quickly adds up if you have multiple forwards (Nylander, Marner, 1st Rnd this year) wanting $5.5+/yr. Sure you could say "you're an RFA you can't demand anything", but they CAN demand.

Tampa has all these up and comers they have to sign, they don't see Stamkos worth $10-12 or they would have signed him for a bit cheaper with term already. Once your roster starts filling out with good NHL pieces you can't have a big anchor like that or you'll make things much harder to get done. If we ever get our versions of Hedman, Kucherov, Palat, Bishop... We need that money.

 

[LeafsNation75]

Trading up is fool's gold and largely a waste of assets. If you draft smart and capitalize on the hubris of 2/3rds of the GM's in the League, you can stay where you are or even trade back and end up with a similar or superior prospect.

I say it depends on who they are trading up for. While it's easy to say now with hindsight being 20/20 the Leafs should never traded up for Tyler Biggs in 2011. However one bad mistake should not scare them into doing it if they think it's worth it.

 

[Morning Dart]

I say it depends on who they are trading up for. While it's easy to say now with hindsight being 20/20 the Leafs should never traded up for Tyler Biggs in 2011. However one bad mistake should not scare them into doing it if they think it's worth it.

I never tried to invoke hindsight. By and large the most successful clubs wouldn't do it because it's not great asset management. I guess if they're really bullish on a player.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I say it depends on who they are trading up for. While it's easy to say now with hindsight being 20/20 the Leafs should never traded up for Tyler Biggs in 2011. However one bad mistake should not scare them into doing it if they think it's worth it.

Exactly. Every case is different.

Leafs fan can point to Tyler Biggs as a reason not to trade up but there are also plenty of examples where trading up worked out extremely well for the team trading up.

Teams traded up to get: Parise, Zajac, Krejci, Couture, Toffoli, Brock Nelson.

Just let Hunter does his job I say.

 

[Faltorvo]

The point is these players' agents will use that number in negotiations. If those players are playing almost as good/as good as him, they are going to demand more money. Sure they probably aren't going to ask $10mil/8yrs, but it quickly adds up if you have multiple forwards (Nylander, Marner, 1st Rnd this year) wanting $5.5+/yr. Sure you could say "you're an RFA you can't demand anything", but they CAN demand.

Tampa has all these up and comers they have to sign, they don't see Stamkos worth $10-12 or they would have signed him for a bit cheaper with term already. Once your roster starts filling out with good NHL pieces you can't have a big anchor like that or you'll make things much harder to get done. If we ever get our versions of Hedman, Kucherov, Palat, Bishop... We need that money.

make no mistake

tbays "cap issue" has nothing to do with what Stammer wants

their issue is that they have 10.1m cap tied up in carle,garrison

RFA contract demands are measured against the other RFA signings in the league not UFA contracts.

 

[Faltorvo]

Exactly. Every case is different.

Leafs fan can point to Tyler Biggs as a reason not to trade up but there are also plenty of examples where trading up worked out extremely well for the team trading up.

Teams traded up to get: Parise, Zajac, Krejci, Couture, Toffoli, Brock Nelson.

Just let Hunter does his job I say.

yup yup no hard rules needed.

 

[BayStreetBully]

I say it depends on who they are trading up for. While it's easy to say now with hindsight being 20/20 the Leafs should never traded up for Tyler Biggs in 2011. However one bad mistake should not scare them into doing it if they think it's worth it.

If there is a player that the Leafs really want, then sure go for it. But don't do it for the sake of picking the next generally highest-ranked player.

Outside of the top 10, I don't think there is much of a gap between picking 10 or 20, or 20 or 30 anyway. Sure, it would be great to have the choice to pick earlier rather than later, but the ceiling of any given player is more determined by what you do with that pick.

 

[Deebo]

If there is a player that the Leafs really want, then sure go for it. But don't do it for the sake of picking the next generally highest-ranked player.

I don't think teams usually trade up while on the draft floor unless it is for a specific player.

 

[HarrisonFord]

it's gonna lead to a cup

 

[Morning Dart]

If there is a player that the Leafs really want, then sure go for it. But don't do it for the sake of picking the next generally highest-ranked player.

Outside of the top 10, I don't think there is much of a gap between picking 10 or 20, or 20 or 30 anyway. Sure, it would be great to have the choice to pick earlier rather than later, but the ceiling of any given player is more determined by what you do with that pick.

Exactly. If Hunter is sure on a player, I'd trust him. I just think our incredibly intelligent front office in particular understands that having a list of 5-ish players with skillsets you like and either standing pat or trading down is a smarter way to manage our assets. Now if the Leafs loved a player in the top-10 and you can get that pick by dealing Pittsburgh's 1st and say, a roster player that doesn't fit in to the longterm plans, than by all means I'd support that move. It's context based, and I'm not super excited about the idea of moving up from 18-20 where players like Dante Fabbro or Charlie McAvoy could be for instance to jump up to 14-15 to grab a Jake Bean, if the cost is a 2nd rounder or something similarly valued. Just don't see it as a smart move.

 

[Le Cobra]

Greatest late round picks of all time:

3rd round: Jonathan Quick
4th round: Sami Kapanen, Hejduk
5th round: Jamie Benn, Miroslav Satan, Stempniak, Kiprusoff
6th round: Datsyuk, Seidenberg, Alfredsson
7th round: Lundqvist
8th round: Pekka Rinne
9th round: Steve Sullivan

We have 2 2nd round picks and possibly the best scouting staff in the league with the best access to Russian and European players via Shanahan. At least one player drafted as a result of today's trade will be go down in Leafs history as foundational piece of this rebuild.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Nah trading up sucks
No one can predict the draft
You can find the gems
Stay put folks

 

[Stephen]

make no mistake

tbays "cap issue" has nothing to do with what Stammer wants

their issue is that they have 10.1m cap tied up in carle,garrison

RFA contract demands are measured against the other RFA signings in the league not UFA contracts.

Tend to agree here. The Lightning's cap is filled to the brim with veterans on the decline. With Stamkos occupying $7.5 million in cap space currently, a even a crazy $10 million salary for them is just a $2.5 million increase. The junk salaries tied up in Garrison, Carle, and even Filppula is roughly $16 million.

I do think maybe they want to reallocate Stamkos' money on re-signing the rest of the band: TKO, Hedman, keeping Bishop and re-signing some of the other kids.

 

[Mess]

Tend to agree here. The Lightning's cap is filled to the brim with veterans on the decline. With Stamkos occupying $7.5 million in cap space currently, a even a crazy $10 million salary for them is just a $2.5 million increase. The junk salaries tied up in Garrison, Carle, and even Filppula is roughly $16 million.

I do think maybe they want to reallocate Stamkos' money on re-signing the rest of the band: TKO, Hedman, keeping Bishop and re-signing some of the other kids.

What about TB dealing Bishop to the Leafs to free up cap space for other signings?

If Leafs management gets wind (somehow ) that Stamkos is staying in TB then Lou could approach this differently as Leafs need a starting goalie perhaps even more than they need Stamkos when building from the net out.

TB has both Bishop and Vasilevskiy and depending which direction they want to go would open the door for the Leafs to get involved here.

I'd be all over the Vasilevskiy angle if that were an option.

 

[Judas Tavares]

 

[Faltorvo]

tricky part is

knowing how many of our "older bust" picks get dropped in the summer.

 

[Commander Clueless]

It will lead up to an epic clash with the Leafs' mortal enemy....The 50 contract limit.

 

[RoyalGremlin]

I see us trading up multiple times to let Hunter and Thommy secure some favourites.

 

[Stephen]

What about TB dealing Bishop to the Leafs to free up cap space for other signings?

If Leafs management gets wind (somehow ) that Stamkos is staying in TB then Lou could approach this differently as Leafs need a starting goalie perhaps even more than they need Stamkos when building from the net out.

TB has both Bishop and Vasilevskiy and depending which direction they want to go would open the door for the Leafs to get involved here.

I'd be all over the Vasilevskiy angle if that were an option.

If Stamkos signs with Tampa for a huge amount, I'm also going to monitor the Hedman situation and see if that won't be a headache a year from now.

 

[Stephen]

But anyway, the Leafs have a surplus of second rounders at this point, and I think it makes it more likely that in a worst case draft lottery scenario they can still move up from 3 to 1 or 4 into the top 3 with a good package without sacrificing too much in the way of organizational depth. Or they just draft their faces off and see what emerges.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Why is Trouba asking for so much? He's a 22 year old punk that has accomplished **** all in his early career so far. He has 67 career points in 191 games played in the NHL. Get outta here.

 

[BodaciousBeefBazooka]

Trading up is fool's gold and largely a waste of assets. If you draft smart and capitalize on the hubris of 2/3rds of the GM's in the League, you can stay where you are or even trade back and end up with a similar or superior prospect.

You gotta have balls and an edge when you are apart of management. Kinda like an entrepreneur who isn't afraid to take risks. It's a gamble. It's like buying a lottario ticket. You can't win unless you have a ticket. You always gotta leave the door open a bit for a chance to win/ get the prize.

 

[sxvnert]

The Leafs are looking to take it low and slow, and I fully agree with it and believe it. But they have also loaded up big time and aren't done yet. Yes the picks will be used to restock the system. And yes maybe we see a move up in the draft this year. But even after all that they will still have excess.

Do you think the Leafs at all go the Buffalo route and make an O'Reilly type move, but maybe for a defenceman? Buffalo also traded for a goalie, which is interesting... but I don't think the Leafs will go that far.

Again I'm not saying this is what they should do. I just wonder if there is any thought of this.

You have Rielly, Nylander, Marner and the 1st. Kind of like how Buffalo had Risto, Reinhart and their 1st for Eichel. Guys who are already in the lineup like JVR and Gardiner and maybe Kadri and Komarov, like Girgensons, Foligno etc.. Plus a boatload of other picks and prospects. They felt like it was time to make some moves, get some vets to the lineup and get the build into the next stage. The O'Reilly trade seems good, the Kane trade will burn them, and its too early to tell on Lehner.

Will the Leafs do something like this, but to a lesser degree? (Or a bigger degree if you factor in potentially Stamkos and Zaitsev)? With this many picks, I feel like at least one thing might be cooking.

Exactly why hoarding all of these assets will be important over the next few years. They are banking on Hunters ability as a scout.

 

[Maplebeasts]

As much as Hawks fans hate the idea, I see something like JvR for their 2016 1st, Pokka and Bickell as the basis for a trade.

Pokka looking like a middle pairing RHD.

-------------------------------

I do like the idea of Trouba though as well...

Terrible value imo. Pokka is no sure thing, JVR is a top liner on a good contract, their first is too late, and we take on Bickell?