Will fighting ever make a comeback to normal levels?

[txpd]

The frequency Kenneth........

Well. Regular is a relative thing. I grew up on the Capitals. Regular old days for me and for a Bruins fan would be different.

 

[Leafs87]

To me it’s made hockey a lot less interesting. This is the first time I legit don’t go out of my way to make sure I catch the leafs. Last year I tuned in and out of the playoffs.

I miss good old hockey and today’s shit just isn’t the same and doesn’t cut it for me

I have a feeling it will make a come back. Especially like you said look who was in last years finals. The blues are one of the worst teams to win in recent memory for me. It had a lot to do with being one of the only heavy teams left, because it sure wasn’t their skill

 

[supsens]

No... lawyers, safety Nazis, what-about-the-children'ers, Olympic hockey affectinados and their ilk are running the ship these days. On the bright side, I think they might have ratcheted down the fighting to a level that they can grudgingly live with.

Regardless, the physical intensity of the game has suffered and I don't think we'll ever see a full on Detroit/Colorado War again. Which, I believe, is a shame.

It will be removed sooner or later.

 

[Hockeyplayer99]

Last night Rangers vs T.B. I feel that when Haley went out there on his first shift and fought it energized the crowd and the players. The game was pretty physical and had emotion in it, I feel the fight did that. I think it also helped the Rangers as a team. I dont want to see all star hockey every night, I liked the physical play and fights. To bad there isn't much of that anymore

 

[Jedub]

I'm ok with the level of fighting but I sure miss hitting, it's like a completely different game now, even the "big" hits look pretty tame compared to 10 years ago.

 

[beedee]

I'm ok with the level of fighting but I sure miss hitting, it's like a completely different game now, even the "big" hits look pretty tame compared to 10 years ago.

Same here. I feel like many of these "highlight" goals are results of the lack of hitting. Years ago if you cut across the high slot from the circles with the puck you would see guys burying the puck carrier. Nowadays it seems like there is too much puck-watching (allowing the dipsy-doodles/dangles) rather than watching the chest and laying the big hits.

 

[Slats432]

It will never go back. All the knuckledraggers are gone. Like to see the odd tussle with the middleweights. Kassian vs. Clutterbuck etc. And agree that hitting is gone too. I don't miss the staged fights. Game is pretty soft right now.

 

[Fixxer]

I was making a parallel between the lifestyle in these years and the lifestyle now. Outside of hockey.
People can't defend themselves. I mean, back then, when my dad was a teenager/young adult, it was more "rock n' roll". Now, there are laws and you can't "settle the score" with someone in the streets unless you want to get in legal troubles.

In hockey, it's kind of the same thing that happened. Instead of getting things done on the ice, 2 men face to face, instigator rule prevents payback time, getting the league to decide if something is worth suspending instead of a player setting the score on the aggressor. Referees get involved too quick, guys fight with their helmet and visors.......
Old time games can be fun to remember that time, but it is long gone.....
Guys are so young and game is based on speed and skill now so.

 

[Fixxer]

It will never go back. All the knuckledraggers are gone. Like to see the odd tussle with the middleweights. Kassian vs. Clutterbuck etc. And agree that hitting is gone too. I don't miss the staged fights. Game is pretty soft right now.

I know Tom Wilson gave a few pretty heavy hits, but I get the guy. I can imagine him watching how as a kid, how hockey WAS and he possibly wanted to play a rugged game. By the time he was at an age to get into the league, the league got much softer and he seems to be a rarity to play a pretty rough game. In the 90s, his hits would have been praised. I'll be honest and say I'm not a fan of reckless and injury intent hits, but he would have been cheered for rocking a few bells and not suspended once.

 

[Newfoundland]

I'm ok with the level of fighting but I sure miss hitting, it's like a completely different game now, even the "big" hits look pretty tame compared to 10 years ago.

Unpopular opinion: Senior hockey is the best hockey to watch

 

[Hanji]

For sure. Just take a look at the schools and see what they've been pushing down the kids' throats the last couple of generations. Toughen up boys...if there's a war it won't be the seniors fighting again so you better learn some man skills and avoid the liberal softy propaganda.

That's a rather simplistic statement.

Let us not forget hockey is, first and foremost, entertainment. Unlike years ago, when the most violent act on TV was a bad guy getting shot on Gunsmoke, today's kids are inundated with every form of violence imaginable. Simulated murder in video games, explicit CSI shows, and every grotesque act humanity is capable of is viewable on the net.
People nowadays don't need athletics as an avenue to get their 'violence fix', unless the sole purpose of the sport is fisticuffs (MMA). So, no, fighting being phased out of the NHL isn't a reflection of the weakening of society.
We're heading in a direction where entertainment marketed as 'family fun' (which the NHL has always been marketed as) will be an escape from the violence permeating everywhere today.

 

[Jedub]

That's a rather simplistic statement.

Let us not forget hockey is, first and foremost, entertainment. Unlike years ago, when the most violent act on TV was a bad guy getting shot on Gunsmoke, today's kids are inundated with every form of violence imaginable. Simulated murder in video games, explicit CSI shows, and every grotesque act humanity is capable of is viewable on the net.
People nowadays don't need athletics as an avenue to get their 'violence fix', unless the sole purpose of the sport is fisticuffs (MMA). So, no, fighting being phased out of the NHL isn't a reflection of the weakening of society.
We're heading in a direction where entertainment marketed as 'family fun' (which the NHL has always been marketed as) will be an escape from the violence permeating everywhere today.

I don't think that's really the reason for decline of hitting, perhaps fighting. But the league's liability in CTE cases and a general wider understanding in society about the long-term impact of contact sports is what has caused it IMO. The NHL can't afford to look like it isn't doing enough to keep players safe.

 

[BruinsFan37]

It's never coming back to "normal".

Unrestricted Free agency (1995) has killed the animosity between teams -- much more than playing your "rivals" less. When you know you might end up on the opposite side at some point, your less inclined to burn bridges. Also when players on the other team are former teammates, you're less inclined to fight (in general -- not always). When you're friends with the players on the other team you're much less inclined to fight them.

Greater awareness of CTE has killed the desire to fight in a lot of cases -- even when the animosity is there. The players see what happened to Boogard, Rypien and Belak (and others) -- and they think "I don't want that" -- so they don't fight. To the players it's not worth it nine times out of ten You can't make players fight if they don't want to.

Additionally, greater emphasis on the "skill" game has pushed fourth line players who only real "skill" was face punching out of the game. That isn't entirely a bad thing, since most of the time fights between those sorts of players were more idiotic than anything. I remember a fight during a Manchester-Providence game in the AHL. Manchester was down 2 goals and they sent out their goon to provide a "spark" -- he goes and beats the crap out of a Providence guy. Then Providence goes on to score three more goals so yeah, the fight accomplished nothing. Didn't provide a spark, didn't do anything positive really, was just utterly pointless.


TL;DR version:


There is no hatred between teams anymore to spark a fight, and even when the conditions are right for a fight, they're not as inclined to fight because of concerns over CTE, especially since they're "skilled" players and not goons.

 

[Finster8]

In any contact sport especially hockey emotions are high when cheap shots, (head, knee on knee, hits from behind etc, or teams taking liberties with your top players), create a retaliation of some sort. Drop the gloves is old school now it is elbow the head from behind and that's better than dropping the gloves? Don't like staged fights or cheap hits. Clean hard hits are as acceptable as a good throwdown should be.
It will never make a comeback. Players are all not 6'2 200+ any more. The skilled players are providing the entertainment now. But you can't tell me that when their is a fight the crowd is right into it. Passion can't be taken away, so we will always have a good scrap to watch. Just not as many.

 

[Royisgone]

Something to consider.

As fighting continues to go extinct across the league, there will be an opportunity for a team to gain a competitive advantage by truly building a team of bullies again, just as Philly did in the '70s.

It will have to have skill and speed too, but my God! How many games could you win during the regular season now simply by having a team filled with tons of sandpaper?

I'm a Sabres fan and they are as soft a team as the league has to offer. They are pushovers.

Because of this ability to gain a competitive advantage with toughness, I am going to hold out hope that the league will swing back to tougher hockey at some point in the future.

 

[Royisgone]

The turning point in the last decade seems to have been the mandatory visor rule in 2013. In the seasons following the adoption of that rule, fighting went one sharp decline and virtually all the true enforcer types retired/got sent down. It's no surprise, that rule was meant as a big spoke in the wheels of the fighting culture.

One big problem is that the makeup of the league has change dramatically since the '90s (or earlier). The average player profile is different now. Much more of a skilled player, he's probably been scouted/pumped up since he was 10 years old, he's a multi-millionaire, and he has other options in life besides playing hockey.

It didn't used to be that way and the league was much more "working class" and those guys were willing to lay it on the line to stay in the league. Those days and that sort of player are mostly gone now.

 

[idontusethisanymore]

Something to consider.

As fighting continues to go extinct across the league, there will be an opportunity for a team to gain a competitive advantage by truly building a team of bullies again, just as Philly did in the '70s.

It will have to have skill and speed too, but my God! How many games could you win during the regular season now simply by having a team filled with tons of sandpaper?

I'm a Sabres fan and they are as soft a team as the league has to offer. They are pushovers.

Because of this ability to gain a competitive advantage with toughness, I am going to hold out hope that the league will swing back to tougher hockey at some point in the future.

I would agree with you, but with the limiting fighting rules in junior hockey, the AHL and the ECHL getting stricter every year and the banning of fighting in the NCAA, that probably will never happen

 

[vandymeer13]

There should be a zero tolerance approach to fighting, meaning an automatic game misconduct penalty and possible suspensions for repeat offenders if there are no mitigating circumstances. For example one game for the second fight within a certain sufficiently long time period, three games for the third, nine for the fourth and so on.[/QUOTE/]

Give me a break snow flake. So called fans like you have ruined the sport

 

[vandymeer13]

Should we also embrace other infractions that warrant a major penalty, boarding, charging, spearing and so on? I can't see why exactly fighting should be the holy cow among severe rule violations.

Because its exciting makes hockey unique and is a game inside a game.

 

[vandymeer13]

I'm 42 and grew up watching hockey in the 80's and 90's. I had season tickets to the Hershey Bears and witnessed numerous fights and bench clearing brawls there in the old barn. Later on I used to go to hockeyfights.com to watch the fights from the night before. Nothing gets a crowd going quite like a fight.
But about 10 years ago, I started to change the way I looked at fighting. I was at a Bears v. Bruins game in Providence and Brandon Sugden got into it with someone. It was a Sunday afternoon game, so not a lot of people there, hence I had pretty good seats close to the ice. First shift of the game for him and the other guy (Brandon Sugden vs. Brett Clouthier, November 08, 2009 - Hershey Bears vs. Providence Bruins), right in front of me. Right off the faceoff, they go at it. Neither of them connected with anything, but they were throwing punches. But it did "look good". There was no yapping at the faceoff, no slashing or crosschecking. No emotion. Drop the puck and off go the gloves. They did their job.
It was at that point, after what I had just witnessed, I began changing the way I looked at fighting. I found the staged fights not to be entertaining anymore, and frankly pointless. The ones with emotion, yes, still entertaining and they serve a need. I've begun seeing that fighting still has a place in the game, but not the staged fights by a couple of knuckledraggers. As the poster above said, fights that need to happen will always happen. I'm fine with that.
This generation of players are more informed and appear to take their health and welfare a lot more seriously than previous generations. The education and information in psychological health has never been more than now. And of course there's the money. What's the point in having all that money if you can't enjoy it later in life? Unless you're like Domi with a cementhead, repeated punches to the head are going to do damage. The kind of damge you can't see. There's too much to lose.

I personally like hard hitting, fast paced games with lots of skill. But that's just me.

TLDR - Fights that come from emotion are ok. Staged fights are stupid.

I'll take any fighting can get. To me the anticipation was always the best part. The tough guys on the ice lining up for the faceoff and then they go. Or when players are taking runs at each other knowing at any minute all hell could break loose. Yeah I want my team to win but I also want them to be the toughest and not back down.

 

[vandymeer13]

The way I see it the other night hawks leafs games players like shore timashov gauthier holl and hawks kampf caggigula carpenter kubalik replace them with players like domi belak tucker Probert vandenbussche marchment vandermeer the second group brings a lot more to the bottom six and lower d pairings.
I feel sorry for players like the gallant brothers emerson clark and other tough guys who should be making good money in the show if fighting was prevalent

 

[IceNeophyte]

David Branch is that you? Or..............are you my mother, I swear that sounds just like her, you just have to add things on like "Why do they always have to be so rough to each other?"

Okay, in all seriousness, this is a terrible idea. You want such a structured game that doesn't allow grown men to police things on their own. Hockey was and is much more fun when things flow naturally, and that includes emotion!

Not to mention the target specific individuals are going to become to try and get them suspended.

 

[Quid Pro Clowe]

Nope. Lawsuits combined with more in depth knowledge of what types of brain injuries occur with prolonged head trauma means a natural decline in fighting. There aren't the coked up, meathead goons of the 90's and prior playing anymore.

 

[Cams]

It will never be as much a part of the sport as it was. Here is my reasoning as well as thoughts on it....

Today's game is more skill oriented - Teams want the wins, need the wins - league parity is part of this. Rosters are being filled on the 4th line with speed and forechecking, more than policemen whose soul purpose was to fight (Orr, Boulton, Scott, McGrattan, etc.) Sure..I miss a good fight - I grew up watching hockey in the 80's/90's (born in 1973), and that was such a part of the game then. FWIW I am a Leafs fan, but also a former season ticket for Windsor (OHL). As a Spitfires fan, we always prided ourselves as having if not THE, then one of the top toughest teams every year, even when they were not a good team - we had Cam Janssen and Josh Gratton together one year. He, plus the Windsor area has produced some of the toughest players to play the game (Probert, Domi, McCarty, plus guys like Steve Ott, Boughner, Rychel, Jovanovski, Matt Martin, Kassian), so it's kind of in the DNA of this area and hockey that Spitfires fans have enjoyed. Heck...our back to back Memorial Cup teams of '09, '10 had tons of toughness/fighters. Go look at highlights of Windsor-Plymouth playoff series in 09 playoffs - got crazy! But...times have changed.

I agree and can related to one post earlier about having a 'coming of age' with fights re: a fight with Sugden (who I remember from the OHL). At the OHL I have seen games get so out of hand that it took 1 hr plus to play the 3rd period (as an example)...games that there were 5, 6, or more fights. It got to a point that I thought to myself enough is enough....just play hockey. I remember games when it was lopsided score there would be 3 consecutive faceoffs where there was a fight at puck drop. What's the point to this?

I am fine with staged fights being eliminated - no purpose really. Do I miss a good fight like Orr dropping Carkner, or Orr - Scott type battles.....sure, but there is no room on a roster for these types of players now. However.....if you run my guy with a dirty hit, I sure hope my team (which the Leafs do NOT currently have) is going to have a guy confront that player and make him think twice about doing it again. I also do miss the times when if your team got down early by a goal or two, then you put out a guy who would spark a fight off the next faceoff to get their team/fans going...... this worked on many a occasion. Somebody above mentioned the time is ripe for a team to build a team of tough guys and bully their way to a title......no way. Teams are too skilled and the rules are being called that there is now way you could. I don't think people want to see a goon squad anymore - this isn't the movie Slapshot. St. Louis nor Boston bullied their way to the finals last year.

Players are more aware of the risks with CTE and concussions - many times it does not come out until well after retirement (Probert had early CTE I believe, but did not die as a result), and tragedies with guys like Rypien, Belak, Boogard. Are we going to see players like we did in the 80s/90s - guys who could score 20, 30 goals and rack up 200+ PIMs......no...never again. Wendel Clark, Gary Roberts, Shanahan, Nolan. Big hits from guys like Stevens, Marchment, etc....... the game has changed. These guys would be suspended. Head down or not......the purpose was never to blast a guys head off and try to end their career. Violent plays like this......if you really miss it that much, go watch wrestling or MMA. Even the NFL has gotten away from reckless, dangerous hits because of player safety. Players by the time they know they can go pro should know the risks and accept them when they want to play - we all know they are well compensated with their pay.

One last point, and this was touched on already. Rivalries are not there anymore, and maybe doing more home/home on back to back nights would help spark it again. It can work with the scheduling, especially for teams that are close by. Add more Tor/Buff, Tor/Det, Tor/MTL on a Friday/Saturday. CGY/EDM. There are enough teams close to each other - say withing an hour by plane that this could work. It should spark intensity.....it's not going to result in a ton more fighting - those days are gone for good.

 

[Bruise Bros Vol 2]

Nope. Lawsuits combined with more in depth knowledge of what types of brain injuries occur with prolonged head trauma means a natural decline in fighting. There aren't the coked up, meathead goons of the 90's and prior playing anymore.

The decline in fighting can't be completely attributed to players being cognizant of the risks of repeated head injuries that ultimately inform their decision not to fight. It can be attributed to the league telling refs to break up any altercations whenever possible, and hold a short leash on altercations that you feel will cool the demeanor of the game and prevent something nastier. The players know the risks, but it's the actions being taken by the league right now that are attributing to the decline in fighting.

Everything else aside, it's the league that doesn't want fighting, not the players. The decline isn't "natural", it's being forced by a league terrified of financial repercussions (lawsuits, loss of corporate sponsorships, etc).