OT: Wikipedia articles on Jets prospects

[Jets4Life]

I came across the Winnipeg Jets Draft Prospects page on Wikipedia. To help users get a better understanding, and information of some Jets draft picks, I created the following pages:

-Scott Kosmachuk
-Jamie Phillips
-James Lodge
-J.C. Lipon
-Chase De Leo
-Nelson Nogier

With the exception of Jamie Phillips (nominee for the Hobey Baker Award), all articles are marked for deletion. I would not have a problem with this, except much lower picks like Pavel Kraskovsky and Marcus Karlström have been left up, unchallenged. The reason being, they are European, and ahve played in Sweden (Karlstrom), and Russia (Kraskovsky).

Am I missing something, or are league like the KHL and SHL considered superior to the AHL, on Wikipedia? I am questioning if the KHL would even be on par with the AHL, if a 17 year old Kraskovsky could make one of the KHL better clubs, when he isn't likely to ever make the NHL.

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[tbcwpg]

All 6 listed do not meet this criteria:

Ice hockey players are presumed notable if they

Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league;
Played one or more games in an amateur league considered, through lack of a professional league, the highest level of competition extant;
Played at least 200 games (90 games for a goaltender) or achieved preeminent honors (all-time top ten career scorer, First Team All-Star) in top-level minor leagues or second tier national leagues;
Achieved preeminent honors (all-time top ten career scorer, First Team All-Star, All-American) in a lower minor league, in a major junior league, or in a major collegiate hockey league (Note: merely playing in a major junior league or major collegiate hockey is not enough to satisfy inclusion requirements);
Were a first-round draft pick in the NHL Entry Draft;
Played on a senior national team (such as at the Olympic Games or World Championship); or
Are an honored member of a national or multinational hockey Hall of Fame.

The bolded is the key one. Karlstrom and Kraskovsky have played in the highest level league in their countries.

 

[GJF]

I came across the Winnipeg Jets Draft Prospects page on Wikipedia. To help users get a better understanding, and information of some Jets draft picks, I created the following pages:

-Scott Kosmachuk
-Jamie Phillips
-James Lodge
-J.C. Lipon
-Chase De Leo
-Nelson Nogier

With the exception of Jamie Phillips (nominee for the Hobey Baker Award), all articles are marked for deletion. I would not have a problem with this, except much lower picks like Pavel Kraskovsky and Marcus Karlström have been left up, unchallenged. The reason being, they are European, and ahve played in Sweden (Karlstrom), and Russia (Kraskovsky).

Am I missing something, or are league like the KHL and SHL considered superior to the AHL, on Wikipedia? I am questioning if the KHL would even be on par with the AHL, if a 17 year old Kraskovsky could make one of the KHL better clubs, when he isn't likely to ever make the NHL.

Thoughts?

wow, bold statement especially since you're basing it on only one argument... which is false on top of it

Kraskovsky played 8 games last season and only 3 games this season in the KHL. He mostly plays for their MHL team (junior KHL league). Saying he made their KHL team isn't accurate at all.

Also, basing a statement like that on only ONE player (being right or wrong aside), what about the following statement

"KHL is better because it has Ilya Kovalchuk" > "KHL is worse because Kraskovsky made a team as a prospect"

So put in perspective, your statement makes even less sense.


The good thing is though: Because of this answering post, I visited http://mhl.khl.ru/en/, just to be sure I'm not writing uninformed BS.

And now I'm gonna make a thread because of it. I'm not gonna spoil you why. You'll have to come over to my thread

 

[Jets4Life]

All 6 listed do not meet this criteria:



The bolded is the key one. Karlstrom and Kraskovsky have played in the highest level league in their countries.

"Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league."

I would say that the NHL is the only top professional league in the world.

I stand by what I had said about the KHL being slightly inferior to the AHL. The KHL may have Radulov and Kovalchuk, but have no depth. Why do you think the guys who cannot cut it, go overseas and play for Russian, Swedish, and Swiss teams? The KHL may have better top 10 players in their league, but they could never match the depth of the AHL.

If Chase De Leo or Scott Kosmachuk were born in Europe, and played in Europe, they would definitely be on a KHL team.

 

[GJF]

"Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league."

I would say that the NHL is the only top professional league in the world.

I stand by what I had said about the KHL being inferior to the AHL. The KHL may have Radulov and Kovalchuk, but have no depth. Why do you think the guys who cannot cut it, go overseas and play for Russian, Swedish, and Swiss teams? The KHL may have better top 10 players in their league, but they could never match the depth of the AHL.

If Chase De Leo or Scott Kosmachuk were born in Europe, and played in Europe, they would definitely be on a KHL team.

well, if you say so. I'm searching for any facts but can't find em Bummer.


*puts up Garret signal*

 

[Jets4Life]

For the record, I'm not knocking the KHL or any European leagues. They produce fine talent. However, no league will ever compete with the NHL, in my opinion.

 

[GJF]

For the record, I'm not knocking the KHL or any European leagues. They produce fine talent. However, no league will ever compete with the NHL, in my opinion.

and why would the KHL compete with the untouchable NHL just because it's better than the AHL?

 

[tbcwpg]

"Played one or more games in an existing or defunct top professional league."

I would say that the NHL is the only top professional league in the world.

I stand by what I had said about the KHL being slightly inferior to the AHL. The KHL may have Radulov and Kovalchuk, but have no depth. Why do you think the guys who cannot cut it, go overseas and play for Russian, Swedish, and Swiss teams? The KHL may have better top 10 players in their league, but they could never match the depth of the AHL.

If Chase De Leo or Scott Kosmachuk were born in Europe, and played in Europe, they would definitely be on a KHL team.

Players go overseas because of money. They play in the AHL because it's the easiest route back to the NHL. If they become free agents and determine that they will not be likely to play in the NHL regularly, they'll go overseas for money. May as well cash in while they can still play. I'm sure the more stats-oriented people could tell you why the KHL talent is better than the AHL.

Your argument is that the AHL is better than the KHL, but Wikipedia is not marking your articles because they think the KHL is better than the AHL, but because of their rules, and that, in North America, the AHL is considered a minor league. If the players played 200 pro games in the AHL, then they would be allowed to have articles on Wikipedia about them.

Wikipedia is not there to be an arbitrary judge of hockey talent. The rules are there, and the pages that you have created do not fit the criteria of those rules.

 

[Gm0ney]

There's no question the NHL is the top pro league in the world, but legally it's an equal with the KHL, SHL, Swiss league, SM liga, etc. Those are all top pro leagues in their regions.

The AHL is definitely a minor league - it's developmental. There are rules restricting the number of vets you can play. Every team is affiliated with a parent club. Clearly a distinction, even though you could make the case that the talent level is close to the KHL or above many other European leagues.

 

[Jets4Life]

There's no question the NHL is the top pro league in the world, but legally it's an equal with the KHL, SHL, Swiss league, SM liga, etc. Those are all top pro leagues in their regions.

Well that once was the case prior to 1991. Today, the NHL is recognized as the only top league in the world. Players from all nations strive to make the NHL. The problem with including players from the best leagues in their respective countries, is where do you draw the line? Would you enter a player from the top Austrian league? The British league? The Australian league? Wikipedia does not make this clear.

North America is ground zero for hockey. it always has been. In terms of ratings, press coverage, etc. My argument is it is rather unfair to include players just because of geographic location. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "legally" all leagues are equal.

A better measuring stick may be what they have accomplished at an international stage. Chase De Leo made the USA World Junior team, while Kraskovsky failed to make the Russian team.

 

[Jets4Life]

Your argument is that the AHL is better than the KHL, but Wikipedia is not marking your articles because they think the KHL is better than the AHL, but because of their rules, and that, in North America, the AHL is considered a minor league. If the players played 200 pro games in the AHL, then they would be allowed to have articles on Wikipedia about them.

Wikipedia is not there to be an arbitrary judge of hockey talent. The rules are there, and the pages that you have created do not fit the criteria of those rules.

Hence, my point. I disagree with Wikipedia. I wanted to open a dialogue on what others thought of the criteria for entry.

I just received a list from Wikipedia, regarding what would be considered top professional leagues:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/League_assessment

 

[koth]

Hence, my point. I disagree with Wikipedia. I wanted to open a dialogue on what others thought of the criteria for entry.

I just received a list from Wikipedia, regarding what would be considered top professional leagues:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:WikiProject_Ice_Hockey/League_assessment

Why they tryin' to keep the AHL-man down!

 

[Analyst365]

It's wikipedia. If your pages don't meet the criteria, edit the criteria to meet your pages.

 

[Jets4Life]

It's wikipedia. If your pages don't meet the criteria, edit the criteria to meet your pages.

That's a great idea!

 

[Jets4Life]

For all you fine folks on HFBoards, I updated as many Jets prospects as humanly possible. My goal is to make the Wikipedia of Winnipeg Jets players simple to navigate, informative, and easy to obtain information. These are the players who I ahve worked on for the last few days:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Winnipeg_Jets_draft_picks

-Eric Comrie
-Kyle Connor
-Erik Foley
-Connor Hellebuyck
-Tucker Poolman
-Jan Kostalek
-Jack Glover
-Nic Petan
-Pavel Kraskovsky
-Jansen Harkins
-Jack Roslovic
-Sami Niku
-Matt Fraser
-Paul Postma
-Patrice Cormier
-Josh Morrissey
-Michael Spacek
-Brandan Lemieux

Also, I am trying to keep the Winnipeg Jets 2015-16 page up to date:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Winnipeg_Jets_season


I am to please. Drop me a line if youo have any suggestions!

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Nice work!

 

[jetsforever]

For all you fine folks on HFBoards, I updated as many Jets prospects as humanly possible. My goal is to make the Wikipedia of Winnipeg Jets players simple to navigate, informative, and easy to obtain information. These are the players who I ahve worked on for the last few days:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Winnipeg_Jets_draft_picks

-Eric Comrie
-Kyle Connor
-Erik Foley
-Connor Hellebuyck
-Tucker Poolman
-Jan Kostalek
-Jack Glover
-Nic Petan
-Pavel Kraskovsky
-Jansen Harkins
-Jack Roslovic
-Sami Niku
-Matt Fraser
-Paul Postma
-Patrice Cormier
-Josh Morrissey
-Michael Spacek
-Brandan Lemieux

Also, I am trying to keep the Winnipeg Jets 2015-16 page up to date:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015%E2%80%9316_Winnipeg_Jets_season


I am to please. Drop me a line if youo have any suggestions!

Nice job working on the pages - I always found Wikipedia criteria a bit weird myself, but it's at least good to keep the existing pages up to date

BTW though, the link from the draft picks page for Spacek links to the wrong Mike Spacek

 

[Hammer Slammer]

BTW though, the link from the draft picks page for Spacek links to the wrong Mike Spacek

I was reading it thinking he was a dual motocross/hockey guy or something. And then there was no mention of hockey and that he passed away a few years ago.


Good job Hellboy!

 

[SLAYER]

I was reading it thinking he was a dual motocross/hockey guy or something. And then there was no mention of hockey and that he passed away a few years ago.


Good job Hellboy!

A poor draft choice indeed.

 

[Jets4Life]

I was trying to correct that link. If you enter through the 2015-16 page, it brings you right to the hockey player. However, if you enter through the Draft Picks list, it redirects to the deceased motorcycle driver. I tried to tweak it, but got frustrated, and gave up.

 

[Hammer Slammer]

I was trying to correct that link. If you enter through the 2015-16 page, it brings you right to the hockey player. However, if you enter through the Draft Picks list, it redirects to the deceased motorcycle driver. I tried to tweak it, but got frustrated, and gave up.

No worries, I edited it. It's a bit different with sortable names in tables.

{{sortname|Michael|Å paček|dab=ice hockey}}

 

[Jets4Life]

Good.

Well I just finished two new Jets prospects:

C.J. Franklin

Jussi Olkinuora

 

[jetsforever]

Good.

Well I just finished two new Jets prospects:

C.J. Franklin

Jussi Olkinuora

Nice work, although Olkinuora isn't really a Jets prospect any more

 

[Jets4Life]

Nice work, although Olkinuora isn't really a Jets prospect any more

He will play in the farm system. I was just bored, and I can't create entries for Kosmachuk, De Leo, Lodge, or Lipon, until they do something of recognition.